Remove Cypres?

[Hooknswoop 19]

In light of the recent incident, will you be removing or not turning on your Cypres for swooping?

Derek

[speedy 0]

I have just re-read the incident thread and although it was asked more than once, there is no clear answer to :-
1) how many rotations before the fire
2) wing loading

So I ask myself, is under a Velocity 90 loaded at 2.4 turning 360° a risk? Maybe? Definately not?

I dunno, so I'd better leave it switched off for swoop jumps, for freefall jumps I will leave it on. On freefall jumps my WL is only 1.9 and I don't really get a chance for lot of turns due to traffic at landing time.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[mr2mk1g 10]

If it helps, it would appear that Adrian commenced his maneuver at approx 1800ft. (as per results from cypres investigations posted recently). Not an answer to your questions, but is at least a piece to the puzzle.

[Tonto 1]

Mine are both retired with no plan to replace them.

The swoop aspect is only a small part of it. The lack of communication on the issue from Cypres - and their pushing "Good for all" ads have left me feeling somewhat burned.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Let's take a step back and realisticly look at this...

1. The dudes having the cypres fires are pushing the limit of performance every day.

2. They are going further and faster, by adding weight to themselves to increase their wingloading.

3. A cypres is a mechanical device that uses air pressure to release your reserve. (Here in Colorado we have experienced several high cypres fires (1500') as the jumper is being pulled upright by the sniveling canopy a higher air pressure is applied to the bottom of the reserve container causing the unit to think it is lower than it actually is, thus a fire and a two canopy out situation.)

4. Ask your self how many jumps are made yearly, monthly, daily with out cypres fires in the swoop.

This kind of thing is not happening to the masses of jumpers out there, so I don't think we really need to be worrying about it to much. It sucks that it has happened, and it sucks that people have died from this, but I don't think the average swooper needs to worry.

[speedy 0]

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but I don't think the average swooper needs to worry

What is exactly an "average swooper" ? As I already said, I am happy leaving my cypres on for freefall jumps. But when I start adding weight and start turning more than 360° I am not so confident anymore.

Am I no longer average when I add weight? Or do I have to keep my turn to less than 360° to remain average? Or am I average irrelevant of weight and turn?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[davelepka 4]

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we have experienced several high cypres fires (1500') as the jumper is being pulled upright by the sniveling canopy

I am often times skeptical of these stories. Given the variences in air pressure across your entire body, wrist-mount and helmet-mounted devices will offer different readings from each other, as well as from the Cypress itself.

Also, when you're just getting canopy out of the d-bag at 1500ft, my guess would be that noting your altitude is the last thing on your mind (it didn't seem important in freefall, as you're low as hell, so why should it matter now).

More times than not, my guess is that these 'high fires' are mostly in the mind of the jumper, reluctant to admit the size the error they just made, and chances are that the Cypress operated much closer to it's intended altitudes.

Yes, I know that the manual states that the high fire is psossible, but I personally have taken low after bigger ways when my airspace was not clear above me to the point that I was looking over my shoulder for a freebag during my main deployment, and never had it actually happen.

[Spizzzarko 0]

What is exactly an "average swooper" ?


Let's not split hairs here, dude.


when I start adding weight and start turning more than 360° I am not so confident anymore.



In my opinion, most of the people adding weight belts for their swoops don't have the skill to properly handle the added wingloading, thus their results are negligible.


Or am I average irrelevant of weight and turn?




If you personally feel that you need to turn your cypres off for swoops then good for you, but for the rest of us who have been swooping for however long we have been swooping and havn't had a cypres fire, I say that we really shouldn't lose sleep over it.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I personally have taken low after bigger ways when my airspace was not clear above me to the point that I was looking over my shoulder for a freebag during my main deployment, and never had it actually happen.


I'm glad that you didn't have a fire, and no where did I say that it happened all the time. I personally am not part of the much coveted Cypres
Demonstration Team, but some of the ones I have talked to have described this phenomena to a "T".



Yes, I know that the manual states that the high fire is psossible,



If the manufacturer is stating that this can happen, then I am sure they have tested this theory, and it CAN happen.

[dharma1976 0]

cy-what? oh taht thing with the red light that I dont have ;)

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[diablopilot 2]

Did it 2 years ago.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

It sucks that it has happened, and it sucks that people have died from this, but I don't think the average swooper needs to worry.

Hopefully all swoopers will learn the lessons from these incidents and yes they are likely currently safe jumping their AADs the way they have been. But for the people looking to go big, they should also ask themselves why they're pushing the limits on normal loads. When a swooper decides to go big, shouldn't they go big in a control environment as opposed to going big on a normal load?

I will continue to jump with my Cypres2 turned off on hop n' pop type loads, but will use it on freefall loads and I surely won't try going big on a normal load. It's too scary.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[speedy 0]

but for the rest of us who have been swooping for however long we have been swooping and havn't had a cypres fire, I say that we really shouldn't lose sleep over it.

I wonder if that's what Adrian thought

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[Remster 26]

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I say that we really shouldn't lose sleep over it.

I say you should... IMO.

I dont think Adrian was jumping a compatition-loaded canopy (ie weights)... Unless I missed it somewhere in the posts, it was his regular canopy (well, a canopy of same size and make since his didnt make it to the DZ), with no weights.

Remster

[raymod2 1]

Quote

Quote

I say that we really shouldn't lose sleep over it.

I say you should... IMO.

I dont think Adrian was jumping a compatition-loaded canopy (ie weights)... Unless I missed it somewhere in the posts, it was his regular canopy (well, a canopy of same size and make since his didnt make it to the DZ), with no weights.

From the bits and pieces we have been given it doesn't look like wing loading is the problem. It looks like multiple rotation turns (more than 360 degrees) initatied from above 1000 feet are the problem.

[f94sbu 0]

I can easily get my Crossfire2 - 109 to achieve higher than 35 m/s decent speed using harness turns and 3-4 rotations. It scared the hell out of me when doing that up high. However, I would never be able to repeat those turns accurately close to ground so I think I am safefor now.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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but for the rest of us who have been swooping for however long we have been swooping and havn't had a cypres fire, I say that we really shouldn't lose sleep over it.

I wonder if that's what Adrian thought

I will second the remark given a couple of posts up: that CYPRES fire was caused due to the speed built up from a multi-rotational turn. The great, great majority of people who swoop, even in competition, throw 270 degree turns from below 1000 feet.

[livenletfly 0]

no i made my decision when i put it in. im not worried about it firing in a swoop right now because im not reching the speeds it could fire yet. as i get my swoops more dialed i will consider getting an argus aad. they turn off after opening shock. plus they are water proof. i cant wait to be done with airtech's maintence squdeule's and 2 year batteries. the vigil is great but i cant belive they didnt make them waterproof!!! stupid move considering they are trying to compete with the cyprss 2. my aad has just a few more years left and ive come close to ruining it in the pond. wich ever comes first and im done with that company. im so sick of having to send that flippin thing back to them every other year!!!! now i have 2 rigs and it feels like im always due for some bullshit!
i love the vigils maintence program and battery life. if they come out with a water proof version i think ill get one. if not, the argus looks like a good choice.

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