Any one loading a Velo120 @2.1

[freekflyguy 0]

I am picking up a demo Velo 120 at the weekend for a couple of weeks.

I am currently flying a Stiletto 150, and wondered if there are any larger jumpers loading up the Velo 120 to a simmilar level.

I am interested in there observations about thee canopy in particular there progression to that kind of WL.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[TALONSKY 0]

I only got to jump a Velocity once a 120 loaded at 1.8 to one. The canopy flyes fast and is really ground hungry. I did a harness turn 180° from 625 AGL and was only about 20 feet too high.
Kirk

[ianmdrennan 2]

send a PM to Cliff Harris - he loads that bad boy up pretty good (Velo 120).

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[chachi 0]

im usually not sucha canopy nazi but thats a huge jump in size and platform. your stilletto does nothing like the canopy you are going to jump, please be cautious and maybe consider jumping a loaded xfire or katan previous to the velo.

[freeflyz 0]

Pain is a wonderful teacher..Let them jump what they want.

[ccq 0]

My goodness, a post to which I can actually respond and add (a little) insight. I made a very similar switch about 18 months ago. At the time, I weighed in at +/-235 and had been jumping a Stiletto 150 for a while. I had over 500 jumps on that canopy, probably more. I had maybe 1700 jumps total. I decided I wanted to try out the Velocity and got a hold of a demo 120 (put me at about 2.15lbs/sq.ft). While that was on the way, I did do a couple of jumps on a Stiletto 135 and a Cobalt 120. I was overloading the Stiletto and thus past the power curve in terms of landing speed and lift. The Cobalt just wasn't to my liking (felt a lot like my Stiletto 150). The Katana wasn't yet available and I didn't see any other options, so I hooked up the Velocity, jumped, and hoped for the best! Fortunately, I had the advice (and consent) of a fair number of very talented canopy pilots who were also Velocity jumpers.

After a jump or two of high openings and very conservative flight, I knew immediately that this was the best canopy I had ever had over my head by a long shot. Two words: CRACK PIPE! Do not demo the parachute unless you are ready to buy it. I have since put ~700 jumps on Velocities and it has only gotten better and better. I lost some weight a few months after the initial switch and downsized to a 111 (which is what I'm currently jumping). I weigh 215, so I'm still at about 2.1.

My advice:
--Talk to experienced pilots and get some advice. Listen!
--Maybe try a Katana 135 or even 120?
--Take it slowly and be conservative. Full altitude hop and pops are your friend!
--Have your credit card ready!

I've found the biggest learning curve problem is not with the canopy itself. It is with your judgment, spatial awareness, and traffic pattern management. You will be going so much faster relative to other traffic, that all the rules you thought you knew about the pattern will change. You need to be thinking MUCH further ahead in terms of traffic, setup, etc. in order to be a safe, competent pilot. Play nicely with others for your safety and that of those around you.

Enjoy! If you have any more questions with which I can help, drop me a line!

--Q

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Chris "Q" Quaintance
ccqquaintance.com
D-23345

[freekflyguy 0]

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im usually not sucha canopy nazi but thats a huge jump in size and platform. your stilletto does nothing like the canopy you are going to jump, please be cautious and maybe consider jumping a loaded xfire or katan previous to the velo.

Yup its a big jump alright, hence this post for peoples experiences on the same wing at the same loading.

I would not want to load either a xfire or Katana at this kind of WL as they are not designed to be loaded that high. The Velo on the other hand is.

I have over 1400 jumps on elipticals loaded between 1.7 and 1.9. I had coaching from Jim Slaton at Perris last year, Chris Lynch is running Wingtips at my DZ this weekend.

The CCI at my DZ is an extremely experienced canopy pilot, one of the best in the UK and has coached me over the last year, and he is confident in my ability to pilot the Velo 120.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[AndyMan 7]

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm a lard-ass, and am looking for a canopy that will support a high wingloading...

I didn't like the idea of going all the way to a velocity 120, it really is a huge step. Instead I'm probably going with an airlocked 135. The airlocks do seem to help the canopy in slow flight at higher wingloads - not as good as crossbraces, but still better then nothing.

Check out a Samurai 135.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[freekflyguy 0]

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Pain is a wonderful teacher..Let them jump what they want.

Certainly was when I bust my ankle 3 years ago, 1100 jumps later Im pretty happy I learned my lesson.

Thanks for your constructive advice

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[freekflyguy 0]

Thanks Chriss, good stuff there.

Fortunately for me I am a full time instructor so in the 2 weeks i have it weather permitting I can make a shit load of jumps from between 5 and 12k.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[freekflyguy 0]

Andy

As Chris said above, with conventional elipticals, airlocked included you are out of the power band at this kind of loading.

Have you demo'd the Samurai??

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[AggieDave 6]

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I'm in the same boat as you. I'm a lard-ass, and am looking for a canopy that will support a high wingloading...

Same here. I load my XF2 149 @ 1.9:1 and I'm starting to try to figure out my next step. I want to jump a 135 of some sort of atleast 300 jumps (atleast) before moving on, but on a 135 that would put me 2.1:1 and a Velo 120 would be loaded at 2.37:1

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[OzoneJunkie 0]

I went from a Stiletto 120 @ 1.9:1 to a velo 103 @ 2.2:1. The Velo feels way better at that loading, then the Stiletto at 1.9. Much more flare power. Great lift. Straight in approaches on both, Velo owns the Stiletto.

[freeflyz 0]

Nothing againest you...just stating a fact..pain is a good teacher ...I know!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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I've found the biggest learning curve problem is not with the canopy itself. It is with your judgment, spatial awareness, and traffic pattern management. You will be going so much faster relative to other traffic, that all the rules you thought you knew about the pattern will change. You need to be thinking MUCH further ahead in terms of traffic, setup, etc. in order to be a safe, competent pilot.

This is a fantastic post. Every bit of it is spot on.

Chuck

[lauras 0]

Contact okalb here on dz.com. His Velo 120 is loaded at 2 to 1, and I think he has about 500 jumps on it. He also has about 500 jumps +/-on a Samurai 136, and 400ish on a Safire. I think he has a handful of jumps on a Katana 120 and a Stiletto 120.

Or just wait...he'll probably pop his head in here pretty soon!

[okalb 78]

As Lauras said, I jump a Velocity 120 at 2:1.

I went to the Velo from a Samurai 136, not nearly as big of a leap as you may be making. The first thing I noticed when I demo'd it was that it appeared to respond more slowly to input than my Samurai or a Stiletto. I realized quickly that the Velo was actually turning just as fast but it wasn't nearly as twitchy and there was almost no oversteer.

Then I discovered that the canopy literally falls out of the sky. I am an RW organizer so I am usually opening around a bunch of other people on level with me. Everything seems normal until you unstow the brakes. All of the sudden, you are so far below the other canopies, it can be almost scary. Be careful, you will almost always be landing with the canopies from the group before you, sometimes even the group before them.

You will also notice that the Velocity just wants to dive. I start my hook about double the altitude that I used to under my Sam. The front riser pressure is very heavy and you really have to use your body weight in the harness while swooping in order to ease the riser pressure.

This canopy is designed to swoop and pretty much nothing else. If you often get out at the back of the load and need to get a nice flat glide to make it home, this is NOT the parachute for you. You can get a fairly flat glide out of it when you need to, but it requires a whole lot of work and still can't come close to the glide of a Stiletto or Samurai.

Now lets talk about the openings (or lack there of). This is the biggest problem I have with this canopy. It requires serious concentration on opening. It will often snivel for so long that it tries to spin up on itself in the process. Every once in a while, it will also decide to remind you who is boss and do the exact opposite and slam the crap out of you. When I say slam the crap out of you, I am not kidding. I had an opening that was so hard it busted 3 A lines about 6 inches up from the slinks, ripped the fingers off my Neumann gloves and left the mother of all welts along the side of my neck. Several others on the DZ have had similar line breaking experiences. That seems to happen when it starts to go out of trim, about every 400 jumps or so. Some people can get 800 to 1000 jumps out of a lineset, and others only 300. YMMV.

After hearing the negatives, it may sound strange that I absolutely love my Velocity. It takes a lot of getting used to and considerable effort to learn how to fly well and safely, but once you do you will probably love it too. I have made about 500 jumps on it, so I am by no means an expert and I am just starting to feel like I am getting to know my canopy. I have lots more to learn about it, but it sure is a fun learning experience.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[ccq 0]

I have some comments addressed to the original poster as well as the poster above. I am, by no means, an expert. But, these are my opinions.

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This canopy is designed to swoop and pretty much nothing else. If you often get out at the back of the load and need to get a nice flat glide to make it home, this is NOT the parachute for you. You can get a fairly flat glide out of it when you need to, but it requires a whole lot of work and still can't come close to the glide of a Stiletto or Samurai.

For what it's worth, I respectfully disagree. I think the Velocity can be made to glide extremely flat if so desired. Yes, it takes a little work, but that is what comes with such an extreme range in modes of flight. I believe I can get more glide under my Velocity rather than my Stiletto in most wind conditions. YMMV. Of course, it wants to go like hell in full flight.

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Now lets talk about the openings (or lack there of). This is the biggest problem I have with this canopy. It requires serious concentration on opening. It will often snivel for so long that it tries to spin up on itself in the process. Every once in a while, it will also decide to remind you who is boss and do the exact opposite and slam the crap out of you. That seems to happen when it starts to go out of trim, about every 400 jumps or so.

There is no doubt that the parachute has high performance openings. It definitely requires adult supervision. That being said, my openings are generally tame (knock on wood). I've had no slammers to speak of and the few instances of line twists have been remedied with immediate kicking and screaming like a baby. Do not attempt to over-control the openings. It will bite you, big time.

It is common procedure around my DZ to replace the lines at 400 jumps regardless, with steering lines even more often. Trying to "get" more jumps out of a lineset seems to be a bit foolhardy, IMO.

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After hearing the negatives, it may sound strange that I absolutely love my Velocity. It takes a lot of getting used to and considerable effort to learn how to fly well and safely, but once you do you will probably love it too.

I feel the same way. To echo what I said in an earlier post: The biggest challenge is you, not the parachute. You need to be 100% focused and in the game from the moment you pitch the pilot chute until you've come to a full and complete stop. Other canopies may afford you the chance to be somewhat lackadaisical about certain aspects of your parachute descent. You simply cannot do that with the Velocity (or other highly loaded, cross-braced parachutes).

Requires adult supervision!
--Q

-----
Chris "Q" Quaintance
ccqquaintance.com
D-23345

[jumperconway 0]

I've found the biggest learning curve problem is not with the canopy itself. It is with your judgment, spatial awareness, and traffic pattern management. You will be going so much faster relative to other traffic, that all the rules you thought you knew about the pattern will change. You need to be thinking MUCH further ahead in terms of traffic, setup, etc. in order to be a safe, competent pilot. Play nicely with others for your safety and that of those around you.

---------------------
You have to watch out for the canopies BELOW you! Your decent rate in full glide will drop you right thru them! On rears, you can easily fly right with larger canopies loaded 1/1.2ish with them in full flight.

The squirrelly openings are why I went with a Xaos. Once you go x-braced you'll never go back!

[raymod2 1]

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You will be going so much faster relative to other traffic, that all the rules you thought you knew about the pattern will change. You need to be thinking MUCH further ahead in terms of traffic, setup, etc. in order to be a safe, competent pilot.

This is a fantastic post. Every bit of it is spot on.

Chuck

Am I the only person that flies my pattern in brakes? It seems to me like an obvious solution to slow everything down. I only use full glide during my final approach and when I WANT to lose altitude fast (ie. to get some vertical separation from other pilots).

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Am I the only person that flies my pattern in brakes? It seems to me like an obvious solution to slow everything down. I only use full glide during my final approach and when I WANT to get some vertical separation from those above me.

Nope, sounds like the way I fly as well.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Spizzzarko 0]

I tend to fly around in brakes and rears until I get to my base leg of my pattern. ThenI go into full flight. I like to have an extended base so that I have all the speed of full flight when I do my turn into final. This seems to give me a little more power into my swoop than when I turn to final from brakes. I'm glad that the other posters here are respscting the Velocity for what it is. This canopy is for the canopy flight purists out there, and should not be taken lightly. Please be carefull with it, and dont let the canopy fly you into a bad position. You need to always be two steps ahead when flying the Velocity. It's fun, but as soon as you disrespect it, it will bite you in the ass.

[Bartje 0]

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as you disrespect it, it will bite you in the ass.

that say's it all.
Flying the Velocity happens for 80% between your ears.

A FreeFly Gypsy

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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Am I the only person that flies my pattern in brakes? It seems to me like an obvious solution to slow everything down. I only use full glide during my final approach and when I WANT to get some vertical separation from those above me.

Nope, sounds like the way I fly as well.

Likewise, I generally hang way up there in brakes waiting for a clean slot to the course. Still, there are often times when you simply have to simply let her fly and thread the needle through the slow traffic. It is those times where your awareness must be totally attuned. I, fortunately, have the luxury of dumping high on almost every one of my Velo jumps (AFF, video, hop and pops). This gives me the time I need to sort my deployment system out, take a good look at the traffic, then formulate my descent track. Those dumping at "standard" altitudes in the middle of a RW formation (flat or vertical) are those in the most danger under a crossbraced canopy. Collision avoidance is much, much more of an issue in these cases. You simply do not have the luxury of being able to take a breath, dick with your slider, and get in your brakes and stroll around if there are a bunch of likewise-occupied jumpers on the same level as you, all hoping to get to their setup point at 800 feet so they can bust the pond or swoop lane. Think Roger Nelson/ Todd Fye. Hope that makes sense. Ultimately, I don't think any crossbraced or super-HP non-braced canopy is suited for dense traffic. If you ARE jumping one in those conditions though, you had goddamn better have your shit together.

Chuck