Samurai

[alan 1]

You guys gotta remember, when one of you says your at around 500', that could actually very easily be closer to 600' and when the other guy says at around 600', that could actually be closer to 500' in reality, unless most of us have started using those digital things accurate to 10'. At least according to some very knowledgeable people here.

Hey, now that I think of it, are they actually "accurate" to 10' or do they just give a reading that gives that impression?

alan

[kaerock 1]

They are very accurate...assuming the watch isn't facing into the wind or caught in the burble of your wrist...then they can vary wildly. It's probably a good idea to try to ween yourself off of the altimeter anyhow. If you start your dive high enough, accuracy to 10 feet doesn't really matter, as you are in the middle of the dive you use your eyes to correct for entering high or low.

-R

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You guys gotta remember, when one of you says your at around 500', that could actually very easily be closer to 600' and when the other guy says at around 600', that could actually be closer to 500' in reality, unless most of us have started using those digital things accurate to 10'. At least according to some very knowledgeable people here.

Hey, now that I think of it, are they actually "accurate" to 10' or do they just give a reading that gives that impression?

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[yurbai 0]

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who the hell is the S&TA at Lodi!!??

Fred Smith.

The thing that bugs the shit out of me is why are people in a constant quest for someone to blame for somebody's else mistakes?

No one forced me to jump the canopy I am jumping, no one told me to do it, instead I always heard the opposite. I realize the risk I am taking and willing to do it. Therefore, if I fuck up, why in the hell should S&TA or DZO be blamed for it. Was I told better not to do it? Yes, I was. Plus I sign the waiwer, so it is nobodies responsibility but my own. People must learn how to be responsible for themselves instead learning how to find the somebody else who could be responsible, and this is what this country's legal system does. You guys might not be realizing this. If it makes you all feel better when you say hey when I read about you in the accident report I will think, I told ya go ahead, but you are NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS in the first place, I make my own dessisions even though they might seem stupid to you.

My canopy prograssion was: 10 jumps on Omega 180, 50 on safire 149 couple on Vengince 135 and jedi 120.

[AggieDave 6]

Well, since a S&TA is the SAFETY and Training Advisor, then he/she should be the one to pull aside licensed jumpers when they're making bad decisions.

Sure, its your life, your responsible, but you don't understand the things outside of your personal world that you would highly influence if you screwed up and died/got hurt.

1. Students on the DZ may decide not to jump/never jump again. Not only that, but they will tell their friends and those friends will tell other friends. All in all, you could cost the DZ and the instructors a LOT of money.

2. Strain on the people at the DZ. When they have to call 911, do CPR on your dying body and try to keep you alive long enough for real help to arrive. Not to mention having the DZ shut down while lifeflight comes in. Now, you know they'll have some sort of benifit for you if you're in the hospital. That's time and money due to your fuckup.

3. Negative press. The media LOVES skydiving accidents, they will do a story about it, making skydiving look very bad, which will hurt all the DZs and instructors in your area.

4. Airport relations. I don't know about Lodi, but a lot of DZs are on a public airport. That's the sort of thing that could possibly influence officials to get a DZ shut down/kicked off the airfield.

For once, quit being so self-centered and look at the big picture.

We're not trying to be canopy nazis (if you know anything about me, you'd know that I'm far from a canopy nazi), but you've created a recipe for disaster.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skygod7777 0]

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The thing that bugs the shit out of me is why are people in a constant quest for someone to blame for somebody's else mistakes?

No one forced me to jump the canopy I am jumping, no one told me to do it, instead I always heard the opposite. I realize the risk I am taking and willing to do it. Therefore, if I fuck up, why in the hell should S&TA or DZO be blamed for it. Was I told better not to do it? Yes, I was. Plus I sign the waiwer, so it is nobodies responsibility but my own. People must learn how to be responsible for themselves instead learning how to find the somebody else who could be responsible, and this is what this country's legal system does. You guys might not be realizing this. If it makes you all feel better when you say hey when I read about you in the accident report I will think, I told ya go ahead, but you are NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS in the first place, I make my own dessisions even though they might seem stupid to you.

My canopy prograssion was: 10 jumps on Omega 180, 50 on safire 149 couple on Vengince 135 and jedi 120.

you are funny dude. people are just trying to help you, make sure you dont get hurt. i understand it's up to you for what you want to jump, and no the dzo's or s&ta's should not be blamed, they didn't make you do that hook turn, they didn't make you jump that canopy, but they could of stoped you. they could of said, "this canopy is way too much for someone with this few of jump, maybe we should go talk to him" or something like that. and if you don't listen, then the dzo has the power to ground you until you come to your senses, or just kick you off the dz. so it does in the end come back onto them.

i'm not trying to be an ass, but i'm just stating the truth.

lata

[nicknitro71 0]

dude at 1.6 WL you can't swoop for shit. You need a VX 69. Don't worry about your jump number, you'll be just fine under it.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[diablopilot 2]

Please don't encourage him. That's exactly what his buddy did, and left two 6" deep divots in the rain soaked ground on his VX 74 at 300 jumps. Luck is the only thing that let him limp away.

Oh, and he's probably jumping at Lodi cause the people at his old home DZ wouldn't leave him alone about the canopy choice.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[yurbai 0]

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dude at 1.6 WL you can't swoop for shit. You need a VX 69. Don't worry about your jump number, you'll be just fine under it.

I will have to think about that
Hey, I know you guys are cool, and I apriciate what ya all are doing, but everybody have a different learning curve. I think mine will work for me. If it doesn't, then all of you were right, and if it does then I will get to where I wanna be. Once again I don't tell anyone to do what I do. Please don't look at me like an ass, I am not. I'm just trying to learn.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

You're really not helping the situation by replying like that, either. No one is going to accept that you are some top canopy pilot at 80 jumps, so you're wasting your breath by attempting to convince them. You may be well on top of those with the same jump #s, but that is still a dangerous w/l for a good pilot, so you have to understand why they are trying to talk you into upsizing. I am not going to say what you should do one way or the other... I know that I would not be comfortable jumping that w/l with my experience level personally, but I am not you. I am just letting you know that this conversation is going nowhere unless it is convincing you to upsize, because you're certainly not going to convince these guys that at 80 jumps you should be at 1.6w/l.

Take care and best of luck to you. I've heard awesome things about the Samurai.

angela

[yurbai 0]

thanks for advice. i will shut the hell up now

[yurbai 0]

I would like to thank you again SkydiveNFlorida for making my point, That's exactly what I wanted to say.

JP I never said that I am ready for it, but when I am you can bet I'm there.

[dgskydive 0]

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I don't wanna sound ignorant, and don't wanna sound like hey, I am better then everybody else, and I am not. But every rule has an exception, even though I have <100 jumps I am pretty damn confident in what I am doing. I understand that number of jumps indicates a lot, but also there is always a chance that different people sometimes get to the same point in different time.
Plus I am not stupid and I am very concerned with safety. I have a lot of reasons to live and walk by myself.
The only thing I ask is don't judge me before you even know me, or at least saw me.

You don't sound IGNORANT. You sound arrogant. you actaully sound like every other guy with your jump numbers and thinks they are different then everybody else. THis is not a personal attack, but guys like you in general are a big problem for everybody. With your experiance level there is a lot more than just hooking that is going to hurt you.

If you don't know what I am talking about then you really shouldn't be under that canopy. I bet I can get better swoops under a lighter wingloading then you can. It is not about how small the canopy isit is about the pilot and his skills. It is easy to judge someone with your experiance level and wingloading. I judge you a future statistic.

I wish you the best but the odds are against you.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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I'm just trying to learn.

Then learn form the lessons that already been taught. Pick up a parachutist and read the incidents.

If you go in dude it is just more fuel to every and anyone that wants to do away with HP canopies. If enough idiots kill themselves because they THINK are the "exception" that may just happen. Then you will have contributed to the down fall of some peoples passion. Talk to some of the top swoopers in the world. They guys you wanna be like. They will all tell you you are making the wrong decision.

Dom

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I would like to thank you again SkydiveNFlorida for making my point, That's exactly what I wanted to say.

JP I never said that I am ready for it, but when I am you can bet I'm there.

Ooooh no you don't. lol! I am absolutely NOT saying that you should be at a 1.6 w/l. I did say that you may well be ahead of the learning curve, but that does not translate into you're ok at 1.6 w/l. I have never flown a 1.6 w/l, and I dare not presume what that is like, or when one is ready for such a thing. All I was saying is that it sounds like you're not listening, so this is going nowhere because there is nothing you can possibly say to make these people believe that you're ready to handle that canopy so highly loaded with your experience.

Please don't take this post as an insult in any way. I am just trying to clarify what I said before, because it seems to have been taken out of context. Please do be careful, no one wants to see you get hurt
Angela.

[mnischalke 0]

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Hey, I know you guys are cool, and I apriciate what ya all are doing, but everybody have a different learning curve.

So who is (are) your canopy coach(es) and/or instructor(s)?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[murps2000 86]

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My canopy prograssion was: 10 jumps on Omega 180, 50 on safire 149 couple on Vengince 135 and jedi 120.

Well, at least you didn't skip steps in wing loading. After jumping the safire for 50 jumps, did you get bored? And if you did, when you went to the vengeance 135, did that just not do it for you?

What are you after, exactly? Since you're in this forum, I assume you want to swoop. Were you able to do 360 approaches with your safire? your vengeance? Did you get everything out of those canopies that they had to offer with regard to learning?

What approach do you normally use when you swoop? How do you set up? What method of control input do you use? That is, do you use single or double fronts? some combination of both? harness turns?snap or carve?

[NeedToJump 0]

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No one forced me to jump the canopy I am jumping, no one told me to do it, instead I always heard the opposite.

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Was I told better not to do it? Yes, I was.

Do you see a common thread here? It sounds to me like everyone is telling you not to fly that canopy. But I guess you know more then everyone else out there with hundreds and thousands of jumps. Just because you have landed it and managed to walk away from it without hurting yourself doesn't mean you know how to fly it. What happens if you get a bad spot and have to land in some tight little area between trees and power lines? What happens if you are not fully aware of your surroundings and fail to notice someone else under canopy? What happens when some guy with 50 jumps who feels he's the exception cuts you off under canopy because he's jumping too high of a wingloading?

I'm not going to tell you not to jump that canopy, enough other people have. The only thing I'm going to say to you is be careful, if not for yourself then for everyone else around you.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[mnischalke 0]

Call me lazy, but I don't wanna read the entire thread to see if someone knows this guy.

But, could we be dealing with a Troll? This is far too fantastical of a journey beyond the bounds of sanity to be real.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[freeflydrew 0]

tick, tock, tick, tock...


170 Sabre 450 jumps
135 Stiletto 75 jumps...
120 Stiletto 150 jumps...
107 Stiletto 331 jumps...

1006 jumps and 0 injuries/malfunctions.

I listened to the people who gave me advice, and watched those people who didn't listen, or wouldn't listen, get hurt.

If anything, I wouldn't suggest changing canopies again... Try to learn how to fly this one first, aaaa-iiiight?

[prost 0]

Does anyone know anyone in Lodi?

[yurbai 0]

dgskydive, I would bet my life that you will get better swoops then me. I never said that I am one of the best. I am just learning.

I am not trying to start fights. but it was very low of to pick on somebody who is who has nothing to do with it.

JP, when I just got this canopy you did not say anything about getting something twice as big, as the metter of fact, Marsel was the only person who told me to think about what I am doing.

Anyway, has gone way tooooo far. I am a lover not a fighter. let's all just be friends. OK???

[sdctlc 0]

I look at jumping a canopy smaller then your experience level to be like a wait and anticipate game. Not for you but for the people around you.

The analogy I can come up with, for the other people, is that every time you land people are going to get the feeling like driving on the highway, maybe just a touch too fast. You see a cop with lights flashing coming up from behind. You start to feel that little worrisome tingle, you know that it may be you that is getting the ticket. It gets worse as the cop gets closer and then finally he goes by you and your free and clear. You feel much better but know that it easily could have been you watching the landing gone bad, oh sorry about that, I mean getting a ticket... It is a % thing, the odds are against you getting the ticket but it always seems to happy at least once to all of us....

Your "odds" say that 85%, 90%, 95% hell maybe even 99% of the time you will not have a problem with you canopy during opening, flying, approach and landing. That is good for you and better for the people around you. But, when something does happen out of the usual chain of events you expect, and it will, the experience you don’t have would have been indispensable.. Under a loaded HP canopy things can and do happen very fast. If you don’t have the experience for the proper reaction/action, %’s flop highly in favor you getting broken up.

People here are just trying to help and you are being extremely bullheaded. Every one is saying basically the same thing, but that does not seem to mean anything to you and I don’t know why??? It is too bad you are so defensive and wont listen, why did you even bother posting the question to begin with??? It would really suck it you did have talent with regard to swooping. You will most likely never get to the point you want to be at by pushing it to fast too soon and getting hurt. That said, even if you do get to a point of being good, your attitude will never get you over the top most likely because you wont be able to take the advice that could really help you get better. That would have come from the people with more experience but we see how you take advice… Think about what people are saying, just because your looking at a tract record of 100% success so far, 50% of 80 total jumps under a HP canopy is really not that much..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[yurbai 0]

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why did you even bother posting the question to begin with??? Scott C.

Hi Scott,
I didn't post question about how to downsise, I asked about my recovery arc when it all started.

All I am saying is that I am learning, I am landing way out there, I don't create a problem for anybody else. I am exploring my canopy and its capabilities. And I do listen to other people When I ask how I did
and what could I have done to do it better.

I am not defensiveI am not saying that what I am doing is right, and ddefinitely I do not encourage others to do it. I just wanna do it.

[rhino 0]

If you are going to do your own thing their isn't a damned thing anyone else can do about it...

If you are going to fly at a higher loading at your jump numbers "which doesn't mean as much to me as it does to others, although you are starting to downsize even faster than I did which I DO NOT recommend." you need to do a few things to help with your survival.

Be last out ALL THE TIME. Pull as high as you can ALL THE TIME.. Get to know the slow speed flight characteristics of your canopy and STAY MILES AWAY FROM EVERYONE ELSE.

Play high, Flare, Flat Turn, Stall, Find the rock point of your canopy A THOUSAND TIMES.. Learn the timing of your wing, the response time of how it reacts in all types of angles and speeds.. Play up high ALL THE TIME.. When you get below 2k cool it..

A canopy at 1.6 is going to be very exciting. But it can also hurt you in a big way if you don't respect it.

Recognize that you ARE over your head. You are playing the game.. Hook told me that you your bag of experience had better fill up before your bag of luck runs out.. If you want to get that experience and live to tell the tale SHUT UP. BE HUMBLE. Watch the better pilots, pick their brains and LEARN. PULL HIGH.. FLY SLOW.. Become an EXPERT at SLOW SPEED FLIGHT..

Stay away from EVERYONE in the air. ASSUME that every other canopy is gunning for you. Fly defensively ALLWAYS. If you crater at least you crater alone and don't take another canopy pilot or tandem out because you were over your head.

Be VERY careful... Risking your life is your choice but you don't have the right to put others in danger.. Remember that..

Rhino

[yurbai 0]

I do exactly what you discribed.

Thank you for input.