270 Set up

[Treejumps 0]

Hey Mark,

Since you have 2000 jumps and have taken the time to learn, I would guess that you will do well with whatever turns you decide to perform. I had very similar progression, and only went to 270s in the last 700 or 800 jumps. My point was made to the jumpers who are trying to rush the process. Experience (jump numbers) are not the best indicator of skill, but in swooping they sure seem to help.

I carve when I have the altitude, turn and dive more quickly when I don't, and if I've really lost the plot I can rip a 270 around in the time it takes to do a 90, get hard on the rears, and still lay down a good swoop with accuracy. These are threee scenarios all swoopers will have to deal with. You will eventually hook it high, just as surely as you will hook it low. The experience you gain from developing skills over lots of jumps progressing from double fronts and up through 180s plus are what enable you to deal with these situations and walk away.

Anyone can get it right when everything goes well.

Tree aka Mark

Cya!

[Skypilot 0]

I agree with a lot of things said in this post! I would just encourage anyone thinking about 270's not rush it! I had 800 jumps on my cross brace before I started doing 270's! Now on my vx looaded at 2.3 it is my stock turn 700 cross brace jumps later!Take your time and make lots of landings!Learn to fly your canopy in deep brakes, dont be another statistic! U got the rest of your life to learn!

Go big!

[freakydiver 0]

See I think 180's are a heck of alot easy to manage because my thought process is a tad bit simpler than it is for 270's. I feel very comfortable witha nice carving 180 - although I would say one thing - having your back to your destination puts you at a disadvantage. That is why I land out more than in - away from people.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Antonio72 0]

I don't know weather this will answer your question or not, but basically the descent rate (feet/minute) won''t change with a head/tail wind component (assuming no vertical components are present) . What will change is the descent gradient (how much atltiude are you loosing per distance covered on the ground) in other words your glide path will be steeper if going headwind than downwind, but your vertical speed will be the same.

[Yoshi 0]

ok thought I would chime in... I personally like 180's.. then again I dont have an exuberant amount of experience compared to some. earlier it was stated that on a 270 there are more outs... the only reason for that is because you are going a further distance around. I feel with a controlled 180 I can get out at any time, just as I do when doing a 270. just because I do 180s doesnt mean I have to snap turn them or dive at the gound like a snap turn or hook.. I can take my 180 just as slow and controlled as a 270...it just doesnt last as long, and possibly costs me a little speed in the end, but I am working on accuracy right now with my 180s and the slow controlled approach is just as easy-in my opinion- to ditch out of as a 270 carver. once my accuracy is down, then Ill play more with the 270s to try to get more accurate with those... dont get me wrong, though, I do snap hook from time to time and I feel that a slow carving turn (weather it be a 180, 270, 90, 720) is safer than the snap.

just thought I would throw that in... please offer any comments on anything I may be incorrect in saying..
-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[andy2 0]

how do your swoops compare - snaps or carves? Do you feel the hooks you get a faster but shorter swoop? The carves are yielding more distance for you? I'm interested.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[marks 0]

Quote

ok thought I would chime in... I personally like 180's.. then again I dont have an exuberant amount of experience compared to some. earlier it was stated that on a 270 there are more outs... the only reason for that is because you are going a further distance around. I feel with a controlled 180 I can get out at any time, just as I do when doing a 270. just because I do 180s doesnt mean I have to snap turn them or dive at the gound like a snap turn or hook.. I can take my 180 just as slow and controlled as a 270...it just doesnt last as long, and possibly costs me a little speed in the end, but I am working on accuracy right now with my 180s and the slow controlled approach is just as easy-in my opinion- to ditch out of as a 270 carver. once my accuracy is down, then Ill play more with the 270s to try to get more accurate with those... dont get me wrong, though, I do snap hook from time to time and I feel that a slow carving turn (weather it be a 180, 270, 90, 720) is safer than the snap.

just thought I would throw that in... please offer any comments on anything I may be incorrect in saying..
-yoshi

i did 180's up until not to long ago and i thought the same thing... uve got about 600 landings doing 180's.

but ive found since switching to 270's my accurracy has gotten 10x better.... and i was very accurate with the 180's

[marks 0]

Quote

how do your swoops compare - snaps or carves? Do you feel the hooks you get a faster but shorter swoop? The carves are yielding more distance for you? I'm interested.

the snap and carve will yeild the same distance and speed if executed corectly.. but if your doing a carve 270 then you can sight it easier and dive it more or less depending on your altitude.... it gives you better judgement and accuracy doing a carving 270.. and well this is just my opinion..

[andy2 0]

makes sense, stretching the speed buildup over a longer time just seems intuitively like the safer way to go.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[Yoshi 0]

the carves I definately get further swoops.. I snap from time to time jsut for the rush... my carves are fairly steep though.. I fly a crossfire 2 loaded at 1.85 and I start in double fronts then let up on my right riser to get my heading and then go back into double fronts for altitude before slowly releasing and going into rears..

-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[jumperconway 0]

I think snapping 270 hooks are the most effective way to scare the sh&t out of the spectators.

[Yoshi 0]

I hear you there... My friend Jonny back home does 90-270 snaps like a bat out of hell... that is a really good way to scare spectators.. and when he did a 1080 (yes that is 3 full revolutions) he scared the crap out of the skydivers... it was sure fun to watch though...even better from his perspective on video..

-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[skygod7777 0]

Quote

I hear you there... My friend Jonny back home does 90-270 snaps like a bat out of hell... that is a really good way to scare spectators.. and when he did a 1080 (yes that is 3 full revolutions) he scared the crap out of the skydivers... it was sure fun to watch though...even better from his perspective on video..

ya, jonny's good at scaring people, good at digging out sometimes too (not really bad, but has to hit the brakes a little more sometimes)

i still got jonny on the longest swoop from beside the fence next to the hanger out to the field. i was proud of that one, i even got a couple people to duck. but then again, greg came up and said if i ever did it again, i'd be grounded for 30 days. jonny kept on doing it, and still does, but since his sister owns the place, he gets away with it.

later

[murps2000 86]

***I carve when I have the altitude, turn and dive more quickly when I don't, and if I've really lost the plot I can rip a 270 around in the time it takes to do a 90, get hard on the rears, and still lay down a good swoop with accuracy. These are threee scenarios all swoopers will have to deal with. You will eventually hook it high, just as surely as you will hook it low. The experience you gain from developing skills over lots of jumps progressing from double fronts and up through 180s plus are what enable you to deal with these situations and walk away.

I like that part about getting a hard-on with your rears. I got a talking-to at orange about that...
I think you left out one scenario worth mentioning, tho, and that is the swoop-abortion. Knowing when to say no is as important a life-saving skill as any other. I've been as guilty as anyone of just having to swoop (after all, we are addicted, aren't we?), and then breaking out the shovel. You guys at Bennett were pretty nice to me when I did (i.e. rte 50 pond) but I finally got a x-braced, and I really can't do that anymore. It's like school in the summertime, as they say. The flat-turn thread is applicable here.
Also, two cents for the originator of this thread: Whether doing 180's, 270's, 420's, whatever, traffic patterns are important, to be sure, but consider also what ground obstacles are located on radials of your turn. If you're still learning to judge optimal altitude for your turn initiation (snap or carve), or if it's on a canopy you're not used to, this can also be a factor in whether you want to hook right or left. After all, stopping a 270 at 180 degrees in the name of safety, and then doing a perfect crosswind swoop into the side of a trailer would be tragic irony.