How to get the most out of a canopy control class??.. .

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I'm trying to schedule a canopy ctrl class with Scott Miller for Oct 5th. I have 26 jumps thusfar. I just got my A license. I downsized to a Sabre II 170 from a 190 canopy and am very comfortable with the landings i've gotten on both. I would still like to go a bit faster, so i'm going to try a 150 this Saturday at z-hills to see if I like it and feel comfortable on it. I figure on making 5 or 6 jumps on Sat.

Anyhow, I am wondering how to make the most out of this class. I know that i'll get a lot out of it as he's a super awesome canopy pilot and teacher so far as i've heard. But, I would like to prepare myself in the coming weeks so that I can really maximize what I can take in from the instruction. I've read the articles on the PD website (http://www.performancedesigns.com/education.asp), any other recommended reading? Also, do I make lots of hop n pops? Should I make some from altitude to practice stuff? What should I try to pull off in air? Practice flat turns, riser turns, etc? Practice coming out of a hard turn? What can I focus on here that will benefit me? I have 3 weekends between then and now.

I want to buy a rig soon, so I would really like to get good at canopy control and know what size canopy i'm looking for.

Any tips are helpful. Thanks so much:)

Angela.

[trigger 0]

Good skills!Sounds like you're taking a responsible attitude towards canopy flight/control early on which is excellent.
What you described in your post in regards to practice is also good but when practicing new monuveres have a cut off height in which you stop experimenting and return to less aggressive flight[in regards to riser and toggle input]also and more importantly,be aware of other canopies at ALL times and land alone.
I'm sure the canopy control course will be a credit to you and you'll learn alot about canopy flight progression.

Just one question i'm curious the canopies you mention i.e wingloads.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks:) I hope to get a lot out of this class and canopy flight in general. I guess I kinda got inspired watching the swoopers
I weigh about 125lbs give or take a few depending on the week, So, i'd suppose my wingloading on a 150 will be about 1:1.

Angela.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I hope to get a lot out of this class and canopy flight in general.

Hi Angela ... you have an excellent attitude and are doing the right thing taking this course. I'm sure your course will cover these topics, but try to educate yourself ahead of time on the dynamics of flight and how a wing is able to fly and then try to find some references on how this applies to canopies. Also, try to get some info on how to fly in winds (knowledge which will certainly help you with your accuracy) and any other info (PD's website has good canopy control info). There are plenty of exercises you can be doing up high such as learning to fly in breaks versus full flight, learning how much altitude you may lose in a normal toggle turn, a flat turn, a rear riser turn as well as front riser carves, etc, etc, etc but I also have a feeling that these are some skills which you will not only learn during your course but also you'll have some homework to work on after your course. So while it's good to try and be prepared for your course, don't worry too much about going into the course and think more about what you want to do after your course.

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I guess I kinda got inspired watching the swoopers

Oh those bad ass swoopers are good aren't they? When I first started, I saw the dangers in swooping and said, "hell I'm not going to do that". But in time and with more experience I started to realize the fun in swooping. But one very important thing to remember (and this applies to all of us) is that those bad ass swoopers who we admire paid their dues over hundreds if not thousands of jumps. I'd like to think that I have decent swooping capabilities what with my current skills using a certain type of canopy. But I am no where near the skill level of the world class swoopers and the only way I will ever get even close to their skill level is to take baby steps. Come Saturday, I'll start flying my 4th canopy and I'll be a fool (and possibly an incident report) if I think that I'll be bad ass right of the bat just because I'm about to fly my first truly high performance elliptical canopy.

Best of luck and please tell us about your course once you're done. I took a canopy control course from Hooknswoop (which I was very happy with) and it would be cool to hear about how Scott approaches his students. Heck if I ever make it out to FL, I'd like to talk to Scott about his instruction.

PS: Are you the new jumper that was directed to Sunnydee123 (Denise) a little while back? If so, I hope both you girls are behaving yourselves (I know Denise has been very inspired with her skydiving experiences).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Hi, Steve! Thanks so much for the study tips. I will look into them most certainly. I read all of the canopy articles in the link I posted, are there more on the pd website? That's definitely a good idea to see how much alti I lose performing different maneuvers, I will give that a try. I think i'll make my first jump on the 150 canopy a hop-n-pop from alti.

Yes, they are bad ass! I have had the pleasure of watching 2 swoop competitions in z-hills, and i'll be up in Deland to see the one they are holding on the 4th of October, as well. I'm quite excited! It'll be an awesome trip; swooping & free beer on Saturday, then canopy control lessons on Sunday. I'm hoping Sunnydee123 will come along! :) (Yep, 'twas you who told me to contact her, right? She's an awesome chick, very focused yet relaxed, and all around a pleasure to hang with.)

Cool you got a new canopy:) Mind if I ask what you are switching from and to?

I've heard good things about hooknswoop. I'll most certainly let you know how my course with Scott goes. I'm very excited and privileged to be able to spend the day soaking up the knowledge he has to offer. :)

Thanks again!
Angela.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Yep, 'twas you who told me to contact her, right? She's an awesome chick, very focused yet relaxed, and all around a pleasure to hang with.

It's funny that I've only talked with Denise via emails, PMs and messages like these and yet here I am telling you two to get to know each other and now you're friends. But what can you do?

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Cool you got a new canopy:) Mind if I ask what you are switching from and to?

I'm switching from a Sabre2 170 to a Crossfire2 139 (loaded at about 1.5:1). Yes this is a fairly aggressive downsize (and I'll only have myself to blame if I mess myself up). But based on what I've experienced during demos and heard about the Crossfire2's bottom end flare capability, I should be fine and in few months I should be able to swoop much further with it that how I can currently swoop my Sabre2.

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I've heard good things about hooknswoop.

Yes Hook not only is a very talented and knowledgeable skydiver, but he's also pretty humble in my experiences with him. Make no mistake, he does have a certain ego (how could any who flies a VX-60 in CO not have one). But it's a controlled some what humble ego (if that makes sense).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[BikerBabe 0]

LOL...don't femur on the first jump of the class!

I can only say this because I just did it, and boy am I embarrassed. I don't know if I can ever go back to finish.

Seriously, though, don't get any performance anxiety! Just do what you normally do and listen to what they say. I got it in my head that I had to "do it right" since there was a camera on me and a much more experienced person watching, and it bit me in the ass. I ended up overcompensating for what I know I had been doing wrong, and I hit a little too hard for my body to handle.

I should have expected it, since I know it's part of my personality to be a perfectionist when others are watching, but I didn't listen to myself.

Listen to the instructors, and be a sponge. The most coachable people are the ones who will do what the coach says and listen hard.

Good luck and have fun!

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

That's cool, Steve, as long as you're comfortable with the idea of flying that new canopy, and know your limitations, right? :) I'm sure you'll be swooping further in no time:)

Bikerbabe, sorry to hear that:( Hope your femur heals fast. Thanks for chiming in with that advice:)

Angela

[juanesky 0]

Angela,
Listen for the advice of Bikerbabe....DOn't get perfomance anxiety.

Try to get hold of the parchutist magazine of Feb, there are few excercises, such as (at high alti) unstowing one break only and compensating with risers. Just try to imagine your canopy just opened, and you have to steer it right away, weight shifting steering, etc, etc....

I can scan the pages if you want, and can not get hold of the issue in question (Feb or Mar this year)/

Good luck and blue skies.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I'll try that with the brakes. Also, how would I get a feb/mar issue of the magazine? I will certainly heed bikerbabe's advice, tho. Although i'm generally not one to get stage fright, I can understand getting it in front of these greats of canopy ctrl... but, i'm sure they see people worse than me, and am not trying to conceal my weaknesses. I mean, recognizing my weak points is going to be critical when it comes to improving them, so how can I be embarrassed about them? I will do what I know how to, that is really all that can be done short of practice and reading in the meanwhile.

Thanks again!
Angela.

[flyhi 24]

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I have 26 jumps thusfar. I just got my A license. I downsized to a Sabre II 170 from a 190 canopy and am very comfortable with the landings i've gotten on both. I would still like to go a bit faster, so i'm going to try a 150 this Saturday at z-hills to see if I like it and feel comfortable on it.

Downsized at least twice in 26 jumps and no CN's are going to jump in here? What the heck happened to you guys?

I hope everything works out for you.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Downsized at least twice in 26 jumps and no CN's are going to jump in here? What the heck happened to you guys?

I think the canopy nazis are too busy slamming people for using Cypreses in the Safety and Training forum.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[PhreeZone 15]

She is also a small girl. I don't think the 150 is going to be 1:1 yet.

Most the CN's are just tired of saying the same thing over and over and having everyone ignore us. That or having one or two people that keep poping up and saying "you'll be fine...." or "1.4 really is'nt loading it that high" or "I'm a conservitave pilot and only do 180 hooks, you can listen to me".

Why spend 20 minutes typing out a reply to have it shot down with 3 sentences from someone else?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ianmdrennan 2]

lol - nice

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Galen 0]

I took his class a few months ago. It doesn't really focus on helping you pick a canopy size. It's more focused toward developing the skills and tools needed for safe consitent canopy piloting. We did 5 hop n pops form 5K.

First jump, he videos your landing/flare technique. Then he reviews it with you, shows video of proper flare techniques and discusses some technique. We then went and put that to practice.

The following skills included flat turns, rear riser and toggle stalling to get to know your canopy, planning your landing pattern, and accuracy techniques.

Great class. I don't know if it immediately made me a better canopy pilot but it gave me the skills and knowledge to progress.

See you at z-hills.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Cool. I don't have the best landing pattern, anyhow, so I can use help with that. It will be nice to get some input on my technique, and some stuff to practice on after that. I can't see how it wouldn't be beneficial as no one has given my any input on my canopy ctrl to this point.

I weigh in at about 125, so a 150 canopy is probably 1:1 wingloading. I am comfortable with trying it out. I certainly don' t plan on trying any low to the ground turns, or anything outrageous on it until I know what i'm doing. I do appreciate the concern, of course. I will not be downsizing from there, I will be buying a 150sf canopy.

Thanks again guys !
Angela.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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How to get the most out of a canopy control class??..

If you can, get any course material before the class. Read it, study it, and write questions down on it.

Don't hesitate to ask questions during the course if you are not positive you understand what the Instructor is explaining.

For the jumps, don't try to impress the Instructor, it is counter-productive. You want the Instructor to see what yur skill level is, not just when you are trying to do very well. also, it can cause you to do worse than you normally would.

After the class, go back and re-read the course information and your notes every now and then.

Derek

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Cool, when he gets back to me i'll ask if he has anything online i can look over regards to material that will be covered.

thx!
Angela.

[TB99 0]

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I certainly don' t plan on trying any low to the ground turns, or anything outrageous on it until I know what i'm doing

Sweetie ... no one ever plans on something like that. Next time you misjudge your landing pattern and find yourself heading straight for something dangerous (maybe lets say an airplane taxiing?), and you're only 50ft up or lower ... people without the experience panic and low turn and hurt themselves. That's just one of many many scenarios I've PERSONALLY witnessed. Just remember, you make mistakes on bigger canopies because even a 150 loaded at 1:1 will bite you real hard when you mess up. I'm only loading at 1.1:1 and I've got nearly 500 jumps. Instead of speading up with downsizing, I learned how to really fly my canopy (well, still am learning in fact) to make it go faster and do what I want.

I hope that you really learn how to use the FLAT TURN technique Scott teaches, because THAT will save you if you find yourself in the situation I pointed out. The key, however, is using it when you need it. I've flat turned at 50 ft and even 30 ft before to save my ass. Have fun, he's awesome ... definately made me a better swooper!

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[sarge 0]

I just spent a couple days working with Scott just last week. I am an experienced canopy pilot. I'm swooping a Crossfire 2 119 (1:6) with only about 70-80 or so jumps on this wing.

I had felt uncomfortable about being as aggressive on the Xf2 as I was on my former canopies... partly because I bounced like a super-ball pulling a 180 like I had hundreds of times before on other wings. I knew there was more to it than just blaming the canopy. Something was wrong with me!

Anyway, I felt I was in a slump; I wasn't progressing. I talked about this with Dr. Scott and asked for his help in making a diagnosis.

We went right back to the drawing-board and started from square one : a straight-in no-riser landing. He does this with everyone he says. I understood immediately the importance of this exercise and its almost silly, but, I was actually feeling pretty good about myself having successfully passed that exercise, lol!!!

I've read hundreds (if not thousands) of pages of material on canopy design principles, flight characteristics, aerodynamics and piloting with an emphasis on the high performance discipline. It didn't matter with Scott. He has a well thought-out programme, and he doesn't skip steps!!

Again, I immediately realized the importance of his methodology, as I sat patiently reviewing so many fundamental principles. What a wake-up call.

We also worked on my hp landings a lot. In the final analysis, the good Doctor helped me to realize, in a very profound way, where I was having trouble. I was and still am on cloud nine with renewed confidence and optomism.

I would suggest sending him an e-mail for an appointment. I did a one-on-one, but he does mostly groups and even if you don't catch him at DeLand... he'll be coming to a dz near you; wherever you are.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[PurpleBadger 0]

A little more material that might be worth a look:

http://www.bpa.org.uk/canopyhandling.htm

unfortunatly these are new and i just found them this evening & due to a firewall can't load up the documents. If people think they're good give a shout out.

won't say anything else on canopy stuff since there are others kinda more qualified here

[canopywhore 0]

If this is your first class it might not be so much about what you learn, it might be more about learning how to learn. If at all possible try to be patient with regards to your learning curve, make your expectations resonable. Bikerbabe is right don't worry about flaring too high and looking like a rookie, I use to worry about accuracy and that caused me to make the wrong decisions. If your set up is off remember you can do it again. My femur has just healed be careful.

[skymama 35]

You don't need to prepare ahead of time before Scott's class. He has a complete lesson plan all ready for you. Just be ready to learn and relax, he's a very cool guy.

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I don't have the best landing pattern, anyhow, so I can use help with that.

Ok, I'll be a canopy nazi on this thread. Angela, your statement concerns me. If you can't land your canopy where you want to, then you're not flying it, it is still flying you. Plain and simple, you're not ready to downsize again and Scott will be the first one to tell you this. Believe me, I know this first-hand since I jump at Scott's home dz, I heard it from him a lot in the last year. Everytime I would discuss downsizing with him, he would ask me if I could do a whole list of things on my current canopy. When I answered "no" or "not all the time", he'd tell me to go back and practice some more. Since you're only at 26 jumps, I really think you need to keep practicing on that 170 until you can land it where you want to.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks everyone. I did end up flying the 150 canopy this weekend and had fun. I know that on a no wind day it might not have been so fun, and I plan on making lots of jumps on it. I can pretty much land on target, it's just my planning far ahead sux, so I end up doing a roundish 360 instead of a 'pattern', if you know what I mean... this is probably due to my downsizing and not having much time on these new canopies to judge how fast i'm going to get there. I certainly need lots more landings. Anyhow, I know I am not the best canopy pilot at 20+ jumps, but i'm working on it and hopefully i'll hear back from Scott soon and get up there to take the class.

Thanks again.
Angela.

[Magikchild 0]

Angela, I have to agree with Skymama. Whats this about 360's? Thats your approach? You've been cautioned more than once. See ya in October, hope it goes well. People that havent seen your landings seem to think this is all OK, downsizing from PD230 to a .....what? 150? in 26 jumps? Hope you dont buy a ride in Air One.Working with Scott is the best idea I've heard from you. 2 days ago I was spared a nasty landing because of something I learned from him. Scott may suggest another canopy for you. Then what? Gonna look for more support online from people that havent ever watched you land? Good luck.

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