MattM 0 #1 December 6, 2002 I currently jump a PD 9cell 170 and I have 81 jumps. I found a great deal on a Stilleto 150 from a friend and would like to downsize soon. Would downsizing to a Stilleto be too dangerous for me at around jump 100, considering it is a more high performance canopy. I feel really comfortable in my 170 and wouldn't mind the change... I guess I'm thinking that the stilleto would be a whole different beast compared to the PD 9 cell. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HookSky 0 #2 December 6, 2002 The first thing I would like to point you to is the thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=295076;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread. There isn't any rush to downsize you can learn alot from really understanding how a canopy flies. Do you feel you can fly your current fly to it's max ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 December 6, 2002 Seeing as you jump at Raeford... go talk to Chuck Blue to get some canopy coaching before you look at any new canopy. There should be NO rush to downsize... be safe and skydive for a long time.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #4 December 6, 2002 QuoteThere should be a rush to downsize I dont think ya meant that!!!! Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #5 December 6, 2002 Yes, I jump at Raeford and Chuck has seen me fly my current canopy. I really fly it hard and I am very comfortable with it. My biggest concern is that the stilleto will be a huge change in performance that I might not need right now. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #6 December 6, 2002 QuoteYes, I jump at Raeford and Chuck has seen me fly my current canopy. Have you asked Chuck his opinion about you downsizing to the Stiletto? -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #7 December 6, 2002 You have a swoopaholic like chuck at your DZ....ask him. Get advice from the instructors at the DZ. Talk to Tony Thacker...last time I checked, he owned the DZ, was the S&TA, and owned a gear store....He also is very skilled with a canopy himself.... Ask the people around you what they think. I don't know you (as most people on this forum) so how can I tell how you fly? Ask the people who see you land, ask them to watch you. My only real thought is....If you have to ask, it might be good not to do it. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #8 December 6, 2002 We have a lot in common. I went from a PD190 to a Stiletto 170. I went from 1.2 something to about 1.3. My "normal" approach was a 270 hook by the time I got rid of the PD 190. Going to the Stiletto is going to be a HUGE change. Not just in performance but in GLIDE ANGLE. I must have gone 150Ft further than I thought I was going to the first time I landed it. Another big thing to deal with was the amount of input to use on risers. On the 190 I would just haul one into my chest and hold it there until I wanted to come out of the corner. I had to learn to use smaller inputs....and to turn MUCh lower. That's what took me the longest to get. You have to turn Stilettos rediculously low compared to other canopies. Take your time....that Stiletto is dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #9 December 6, 2002 QuoteI have 81 jumps no offense, but here we go again. check with skymonkey! take care, be safe.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #10 December 6, 2002 QuoteI have 81 jumps Ouch...sorry...missed that. I know Raeford has a "Go Small Fast" thing going on but I think it's a bit soon. I got my 170 at 135-140 jumps with 90 jumps on a square. 60 of those doing "High Performance" landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #11 December 7, 2002 I have two comments. #1 - At under 100 jumps, you're not ready for a Stiletto. Period. There is no way with that few jumps that you have experienced all or even most of the worst case scenarios. What happens when you have to land off? The pattern gets all fubar and someone cuts you off at 100 feet? Night jumps? Busy dropzones with multiple big planes? The list goes on. #2 - There are always good deals on used Stiletto's. I guarantee there will be an equally good deal for you in a few hundred more jumps. Get yourself something zp and square. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 December 8, 2002 Someone *might* be ready for something like a Stilleto under 100 jumps IF they had some really good canopy coaching and are talented. Most people? Hell no, we'll read about them in Parachutist, in the one section you don't want to be mentioned in.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #13 December 9, 2002 I did talk to Tony(DZO) and others... they seen no problem with it. But, I went to a Saber 150 instead. Its a good canopy but from what I heard they will have hard openings... they weren't kidding. I jumped this canopy twice and the second opening rocked me. Gotta find that techique I guess... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 December 9, 2002 QuoteI jumped this canopy twice and the second opening rocked me They do have that reputation. However, a Stiletto can do the exact same thing to you if you don't have the proper technique. Have a shoulder low...it could open hard and spin up. Don't stop all your forward motion from a track before you dump. It will SLAM you. Basically....if you aren't perfectly symetrical and falling straight down you WILL have problems with any HP canopy openings. That's ONE of the reasons you need a few jumps before you get on one. Not to mention flying it. If you have problems with the Sabre openings ask your rigger about a pocket slider and get a line trim chart for it. Both of those could fix your problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #15 December 9, 2002 81 jumps and you are doing 270s on a pd 170? I don't know which is worse, wanting to go to a elliptical with 81 jumps or doing 270s on a canopy entirely un-designed for it. Slow down. As much as many people would like to believe that jump numbers are meaningless (for some things its true), but for learning to fly canopies it does take time. You would be able to fly and land the stilleto in perfect conditions, but the first time you had to make a correction low or land off or any high pressure situation you would get hurt. Not to mention that at 81 jumps you would likely be chopping the thing because as stable as you think you are at pull time, you have be far more stable with ellipticals. Get a ZP square at a reasonable wing loading (1.1 to 1.3) and put at least (bare minimum) 100 jumps on it. That would be an intelligent, logical, and reasonable canopy progression. Slow down, be safe, Tree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #16 December 9, 2002 Quote 81 jumps and you are doing 270s on a pd 170? whoa, I never said that. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #17 December 9, 2002 Yes, it's you can do it. BUT it's quite a bit of change from the canopy you are used to. A move to a 170 Stiletto would be a more logical step. A lot depends on your loading. You need the advice of a rigger or your instructor to make a safe, informed decision. The Stiletto is a lot more skittish and unpredictable than your generic PD. Depending on the loading, you could be moving up from riding a bicycle to driving a Formula 1 race car. I takes time to learn to fly it. Push the learning curve and it will kill you. Talk to an expert who knows you jumping skills first."Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #18 December 9, 2002 Quote 81 jumps and you are doing 270s on a pd 170? No that was me.....I was doing 270's at a little over 100 jumps. Somewhere between 100-130 I did my one and only 360 approach. I was high for 2 or 3 hours off the adrenaline. After I came down I decided I would never do ANYTHING quite that stupid again! However....I remember 270's being my "normal" all is right with the world approaches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun 0 #19 December 27, 2002 QuoteI did talk to Tony(DZO) and others... they seen no problem with it. But, I went to a Saber 150 instead. Its a good canopy but from what I heard they will have hard openings... they weren't kidding. I jumped this canopy twice and the second opening rocked me. Gotta find that techique I guess... Good move on getting a sabre instead. I've jumped one for the last 150jumps and love it. It can open hard, but here is what I do to fix that. Do NOT roll the nose. Only roll the tail and roll it tight. Do not let the rolls come out when you cacoon the thing. Small rubber bands and big line stows (but not too big). If none of that works get a rigger to make you a pocket slider. I have one on my jedei and it's great, but should only be used as a last resort. If your openings are packing error, then you get a pocket slider, then fix your error, you could end up with a parachute that takes 2000ft to open. Be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #20 December 27, 2002 I have found that rolling the nose is the key. I roll 4 cells on one side and 4 in the opposite direction on the other. Works everytime. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
