would you ....

[grosfion 0]

buy a brand new design of a canopy after it came out? There are several new canopys coming out e.g. Icarus ... so what is your opinion: buy or wait a little while until the first pilots are telling you about it?
There are companys who invest a lot in testing, others might not have the patience....
blues

[BadDog 0]

I wait. Let someone else work out the bugs and the techniques necessary to make the thing behave. And let the prices come down as used ones come on the market and newer designs make inventory obsolete. Nothing I like better than a proven design and a good deal to boot. But that's just my preference.
CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog

[Kirils 1]

I am always more comfortable jumping a canopy that has been out for a few years. There really is no advantage buying "the latest, greatest" canopy. There have been too many designs shown to be flawed after the initial marketing effort to warrent buying something 'hot off the press"!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[freeflir29 0]

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There have been too many designs shown to be flawed after the initial marketing effort to warrent buying something 'hot off the press"!

No doubt!!! It's nice to know that I can fly my Stilletto with complete confidence. I don't think there is a more proven eliptical design on the market. How ever annoying the recovery arc might be....
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[bhale 0]

I believe it, very much, depends on what you are looking for in a canopy, and you experience level.Canopy manufacturers are responding to the cry for smaller, faster canopies.
Any reputable company will go above and beyond, testing before marketing.
It's a kick being the first on the DZ with the latest and greatest.
Know what you want in a canopy, and go for it.
Have fun, be safe!

[councilman24 36]

I've got a couple of latest and greatest stashed in my basement. If you can afford the mistakes, have at it.

[hobbes4star 0]

depends on whom is putting the new canopies out, Icarus i would wait, but if it was PD i would probably demo, not saying that icarus is a bad canopy or anything, just my 0.02
why jump when you can fly

[bhale 0]

Paradactyl's and T-10's don''t count

[Hooknswoop 19]

"depends on whom is putting the new canopies out, Icarus i would wait, but if it was PD i would probably demo, not saying that icarus is a bad canopy or anything, just my 0.02"
What about Precision?, Flight Concepts? Atair?, PISA? Big Air Sportz?
Why?
Hook

[hobbes4star 0]

not saying that any canopy are bad i have only had experiance on PD and Icarus.
why jump when you can fly

[crazy 0]

Quote

No doubt!!! It's nice to know that I can fly my Stilletto with complete confidence. I don't think there is a more proven eliptical design on the market.

What did this design prove exactly? Doesn't it have a few flaws that many other (usually newer) canopies don't have? What makes you fly it with complete confidence? Why wouldn't you be as confident flying a newer design?
BB
Come

[narcimund 0]

A month ago I ordered a Safire. A couple of days later Icarus announced the Safire2. I called and found out I could choose either one. I chose the newer.
Why? Because I like the original and I like the description of the update. If it's what they claim, I'll enjoy it more than I do the original.
What if the update isn't what they claim? Then I have 30 days to send it back for a full refund. Icarus' return policy makes up for the lack of history in my mind. And this is extra encouragement to make a LOT of jumps in the next four weeks!
"Flying without feathers is not easy; my wings have no feathers" -- Titus Maccius Plautus, 220 B.C.

[freeflir29 0]

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What did this design prove exactly? Doesn't it have a few flaws that many other (usually newer) canopies don't have? What makes you fly it with complete confidence? Why wouldn't you be as confident flying a newer design?

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Stilletto has undergone many changes over the years. One you buy off the shelf today will be quite a bit different than when it was first put on the market. Every manufacturer makes improvements to the design as they go along. No number of test jumps can prove a design in every situation. No matter how hard a design team tries to, it just can't duplicate the myriad of situations that occur "in the field." The Stilletto is the product of many years of "field testing" and it has held up well and been improved along the way. It's a good, safe design that still gives lots of performance. I don't think there is another eliptical on the market with as long of a history as the Stilletto. It certainly has it's own personality but it's a predictable personality.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[councilman24 36]

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Paradactyl's and T-10's don''t count

Naw, Cirrus Cloud (5 cell!) and Nova. Somewhere there are X-210's just waiting for Z-P to run it's course. Actually the Nova's not mine, and I liked my Cirrus Cloud until I shattered my ankle (Not canopy related.)

[crazy 0]

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Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Stilletto has undergone many changes over the years. One you buy off the shelf today will be quite a bit different than when it was first put on the market.

Now, i'm really curious. Apart for the type of lines and maybe the quality of the fabric and the reliability of the manufacturing process, what are the differences between the old ones and the new ones? Did they change the airfoil, the planform, the structure or the trim?

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The Stilletto is the product of many years of "field testing" and it has held up well and been improved along the way. It's a good, safe design that still gives lots of performance. I don't think there is another eliptical on the market with as long of a history as the Stilletto.

Ok, its old. And what? Is it really safer and better than most of the newer designs in its category?
BB
Come

[freeflir29 0]

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Did they change the airfoil, the planform, the structure or the trim?

I guess someone from PD would have to talk about specifics.

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Is it really safer and better than most of the newer designs in its category?

Seems to be. I haven't ever heard of a Stilletto collapsing and killing someone. I saw a partial collapse once on a 97 but it reinflated pretty quickly and the guy got a nice surf out of it. He was fine after cleaning out his jumpsuit.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[prost 0]

They have. There is not a canopy design out there that has not collapsed at some point. Remember we are flying a piece of nylon suspended by thread. If you hit the right conditions any canopy will collapse.
William

[crazy 0]

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Seems to be [better and safer]. I haven't ever heard of a Stilletto collapsing and killing someone.

You are talking about bad design here, not about people flying into turbulences, right? Can you be more specific and tell me which canopies are supposed to collapse and kill people because of their design?

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I saw a partial collapse once on a 97 but it reinflated pretty quickly and the guy got a nice surf out of it. He was fine after cleaning out his jumpsuit.

So, what's your point? Basically, you're just highlighting that the stiletto can collapse and that the guy had a really close call. How can this example possibly show that the stiletto is better and safer than newer designs? Looks like just the opposite. For many modern canopies it's so improbable that it's quite unlikely to witness this type of incident.

BB
Come

[PhreeZone 15]

>Can you be more specific and tell me which canopies are supposed to collapse and kill people because of their design?
Glidepath Nova, Icarus Crossfire to name a quick two... The Xaos's had issues during the Red Bull Blade Raid too, but injuries were minor there.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[weid14 0]

please prove that the crossfire was a design flaw. thank you in advance.....

[billvon 2,426]

>please prove that the crossfire was a design flaw. thank you in advance.....
You cannot; any more than you can prove that the Nova had a design flaw, or that the Racer RSL has a design flaw. Still, it would behoove you to examine the performance of each out in the field and avoid the ones that seem prone to problems.
-bill von

[weid14 0]

and that was my point exactly.....(although not as explicit).

• Quote

[billvon 2,426]

>Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Stilletto has undergone many >changes over the years. One you buy off the shelf today will be quite a bit
> different than when it was first put on the market.
I am interested where you heard this. As far as I know, the Stiletto has remained essentially the same. The Sabre has too, with the exception of one line change on the larger sizes and larger sliders after '96 or so. I think PD is pretty good about not changing things without telling you (which they did with the Sabre II.)
>It's a good, safe design that still gives lots of performance.
I agree that it has a good track record, but there are the same tradeoffs there as with any other canopy. I don't think length of time elapsed is a good metric of how good a canopy design is, although it does allow more time for people to better understand it (i.e. openings must be shoulders-level.) If you have seen better opening performance, I'd bet it's the skydivers, not the canopy, that's changed.
-bill von

[crazy 0]

About canopies supposed to collapse because of their design

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Glidepath Nova, Icarus Crossfire to name a quick two... The Xaos's had issues during the Red Bull Blade Raid too, but injuries were minor there.

I completely agree for the Nova and a few other canopies before this. All this is more than 10 years ago. The Nova was grounded even before the release of the Stiletto. Anyway, in the context, my question was implicitely about canopy designs newer than the stiletto.
The crossfire? as far as i know it is not a problem of design. Officially it was a problem of manufacturing. I don't think that the manufacturer would take the risk to keep any crossfire in the air without any fix if it was a problem with the design. Now, you probably have good arguments to backup your claim. Don't you?
The Chaos? Never heared about any problem with its design. Can you provide more accurate references, or is it just rumors propagating the same way there were rumors about the stiletto when it was released?
BB
Come

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I completely agree for the Nova and a few other canopies before this. All this is more than 10 years ago. The Nova was grounded even before the release of the Stiletto."
Crazy, are you sure about this? I seem to remember friend back in Scotland jumping a Nova around about 94/95....
Not a big issue, just trying to get my own timeline straight....
Cya
D
Gravity Rat # 37
Remember, we can do everything right, and still get hurt.