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k2skydiver

Can your student get their feet up for landing?

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I have had issues in the past with students that I felt may have issues getting their feet up for landings and sure enough once the parachute opens (" I cant get them up any higher than this"). The attachment is something I started doing last year when I had an 89 year old man show up to do a tandem. I hate turning away anyone who wants to jump but risk of injury to my student or myself is not worth it. If someone does get hurt that is what the media picks up on and it hurts the sport as a whole. What I have started doing with anyone that I feel may have issues weather its hooking up or getting their feet up for landing is to go ahead and put them in a harness have them get into the mock up and run through the procedure. Then I will stand them up and walk to the edge of our mock-up and step off so they are hanging from me like they would be under canopy. At this point I have them lift their legs for landing and hold the for at least 10 seconds. It is better to find out on the ground that they cant move their legs or that they cant get into a position that allows you to get them hooked up properly than to find out in the plane or under canopy. Doing this takes an extra 5 minutes at the most and I have also done it and used it as a training class for the students. But its worth the extra time not to have to worry about taking a trip to the ER.

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From my small amount of tandem experience, the pic shows she has her feet up high enough for landing. With her legs in that position I would lean back as far as possible when flaring to get her feet higher if needed, or to sit her down and slide.

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Exactly;) That why I did this.. This lady was 81 she had some trouble walking and moving around but was in overall good condition for an 81 year old lady. However getting her feet up for landing may have been difficult and if you break an 81 year old they would never heal. But by doing this I saw she could get her feet high enough and I felt better knowing that as well.

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Or you can just use a handicapped harness which pulls their legs up at the knees. The pull up strap is routed through the chest strap and you just pull up their legs with the strap just before landing. A regular friction adapter holds the strap from slipping. Most of the big DZ's have some variation of this kind of harness. It's well worth it in the long run.

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riggerrob

Tell them to put their hands under their knees.
Keeps their hands an entire MILE away from handles I don't want them touching!



^This. But I also had the local rigger sew leg grips on the student tandem suits, so they they could pull their legs up with their hands.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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dqpacker

looks like you could hurt yourself easier doing that on the ground than a landing with their feet dragging a bit. hope you have a strong back.



................................................................................

The key to avoiding spinal injuries is angles. If you load your spine at the correct angle, no risk.
But if you load your spine at the wrong angle, you will damage it during the first dirt-dive.
That is why I quit rehearsing at the plane with tandem students. Too many tandem students invented exit methods that were never mentioned in ground school. The last time I dirt-dived a tandem exit from a Beech 18, it took a week and a general practitioner to straighten out my neck!

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***Tell them if you dont get your feet up higher your going to break your leg(s).

I would never say that to any passanger.>:( trying to scare them even more is counter productive. also could leave you open to a law suit especially in the US i imagine if something does happen on landing. your local rigger can make up a couple straps very easy to fix this.
also even if you do not have these straps the tandem master should be able to deal with this no problem, if they have an issue getting there legs up, put your feet behind their ankles or calver push their legs forward for the landing and slide in on your Bud. problem solved!

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We used to have a suspended harness that you could put students in to practise the landing. It was a good training aid most of the time if you were unsure of your student ability to get there feet up.

However we did discover a pit fall.... If you have a large student with fatty thighs arse etc.. they can often get there legs up when you have gently lifted them of the ground in the harness. You then take them on the tandem and during the opening shock they slump a lot further into the harness than they did on the ground. The old classic 'fat chick slump'
Suddenly they find it a lot harder to get there legs up, as the harness has sunk deeper into there thighs etc.. making it impossible to adjust.
We experienced this with both Atom and Sigma and strong harnesses.

I still think it can be a useful aid, especially for the unusual jumps (disabled jumps etc) but it can lull you into a false sense of security about your customers ability to perform at the critical time. :o

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riggerrob

Tell them to put their hands under their knees.
Keeps their hands an entire MILE away from handles I don't want them touching!



I've been having passengers put there forearms under the knee. There is way more leverage and it is easier for them to hold. Get the knees up, forearms in and make fists. If they cant get them up I give a boost with my feet under theirs or reach down and pull them up. Everyone has been able to get the legs up, feet together and have feet level with their bottom......

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JohnMitchell

***Yes,
I have kicked hundreds of students' feet forward just before touchdown.

Hundreds? Wow, I've only done dozens.

Of course, I tell them that if they don't get their feet up I'll get to use them for a pillow. That's usually is a great motivator. ;):D

................................................................................

What?
Tandem students DON'T want to cuddle with the handsome and talented John Mitchell?
I am shocked and outraged!

... or are they afraid of what Lady Val will do to them if she catches them cuddling with her husband????

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I'm a new TI but what I started doing is putting my feet under the backs of their knees, lifting them for touchdown and sliding my feet out just as we make contact so I don't break my own ankle.

Additionally, I'll have them grab their pants and pull up if when we do a practice landing I see that they're hopeless.

I don't think checking their range of motion on the ground is a good indicator of what they can do suspended under a harness although you can make a few assumptions just from having them stand on one leg and seeing how well they can hold up the other. Honestly, I can already make a few assumptions based upon age and physique.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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riggerrob


What?
Tandem students DON'T want to cuddle with the handsome and talented John Mitchell?
I am shocked and outraged!

... or are they afraid of what Lady Val will do to them if she catches them cuddling with her husband????

:D Just stumbled across these fine words of praise. Would you like a job as my PR guy? :P

Ain't nothin' cuddling about a bad tandem landing, right?:D And I ain't that cute, neither. I just look good standing next to Vskydiver. :P

I have all my students practice holding their feet up while above 2000'. Plenty of time to coach them as to exactly how I want it to look and plenty of time to make a game plan if they are physically challenged by the task. Surprisingly, even the 70+ yo grandmas seem to have little trouble holding their feet up sufficiently. :)

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jimjumper

I've found that it's not the age of the student that makes the difference. It's when the circumference measurement of the student is greater than the vertical measurement that there may be problems!



.....................................................................................

You speak God's own truth!

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swoopfly

Tell them if you dont get your feet up higher your going to break your leg(s). You will be amazed at how much extra height they can lift them after that, but with old people yes it can be a problem!



See attachment... I have the passengers forearms under the knees. Help them get them up if needed.

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it is because the head of the student should be just below pilot's head level instead to be so low with Sigma passenger tandem, the reason why it is so low it is because the UPT tandem passenger harness is NOT a good one, it does not hold the top of the body in freefall (except by snaps) and it already put pressure on pilot's chest, I fixed both issues as you can see in the picture

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The UPT harness works just fine, it is mostly the cooleo instructors who jump with their chest strap too loose that allows the student harness to move about their students shoulders. A properly fitted UPT harness is much more secure and comfortable than a strong for the student during freefall and is much easier to lift ones feet and legs during landing. UPT could beef up the padding in the legs.

Strong keeps the student in a forward leaning position and makes it harder to lift their feet properly.

I have many rides on front on both systems and hands down I prefer the Sigma.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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