A done deal. That is great. Where in Houston? I live in Texas and as you probably know, one side of Houston is a lot closer than another. thanks,
Light that rocket!
Levin 0
QuoteWhere in Houston?
Memorial City Mall
Summer 2005
Hummusx 0
In 2003 SVO generated $2,501,236 in sales and operated at a 35% profit margin (this included a 3-week downtime period for system upgrades). In 2002, SVO generated more than $2.25 million in revenue and operated at a 36.7% profit margin.
http://www.zerogroom.com
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It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill
http://www.zerogroom.com
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It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill
Reginald 0
QuoteIn 2003 SVO generated $2,501,236 in sales and operated at a 35% profit margin (this included a 3-week downtime period for system upgrades). In 2002, SVO generated more than $2.25 million in revenue and operated at a 36.7% profit margin.
What specifically do you mean by "profit margin"? Is that Gross Margin, Earnings Before Tax, Net Income?
Given what little I know about the costs of running a tunnel I presume it is Gross margin which means there are still very large additional costs such as interest, SG&A, etc. that will bring that number down substantially. Or are you telling me that is ETB, or NI? In which case it is a printing press.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP
rehmwa 2
QuoteI just think for people like me, who skydive on a budget, that you get more bang for your buck doing the "real thing."
If "bang" = swoops, then no shit.
If it's freefall skills, then air time matters. And last year with sharing, I paid for 2 hours of time but got over 4 hours tunnel time (over 2 days). How many jumps to get 5 hours of FF time?
It was a lot of sharing and sometimes over half the session time (some sessions were 4 of every 6 minutes during the hour - I don't recommend that for any extended periods).
If you can do all 4-way in the tunnel, then it's $630 split among 4 teammates ($160 per person or so) for an hour of airtime. For an airplane, it's 60 jumps at one minute per jump x $20 per jump x 1.25 (need a cameraman for the same education so each person picks up a quarter of their lift ticket, I won't add in his packing adder or fee if any - I'll also not add jumps for unused time for exiting and tracking, etc.) = $1500
I'd think $160 was less than $1500, but I'm not on a terribly tight budget right now to understand how spending an extra $1340 is actually more cost effective in any type of freefall training......
So if you're on a budget and want freefall skills, you do get bang for the buck in the tunnel. no comparison.
So I don't really get your quote here, " I fully realize that for those who can afford it the tunnel is a great tool". Your talking about a preference, not monetary efficiency, so the only argument you can bring here is you prefer real jumps. I respect that, but a rationalization based on a tight budget is just plain wrong.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Canuck 0
First of all, hardly anybody actually does 4-way in a tunnel, especially the 12 foot variety. There's just not enough room for any but the most compressed formations. 4-way teams that do tunnel camps spend most of the time doing 2-ways. And yes I realize that 2-ways are excellent for building 4-way skills, but they're still not 4-ways. So there goes the $160 per hour deal, not to mention you're not learning about exits, hill-flying, subterminal air, or any other components of what you have called "freefall skills."
Also to consider is the fact that for many of us tunnel time equals airfare and hotel accommodation rather than driving to our local DZ and sleeping in a tent/trailer/bunkhouse. If you're lucky enough to live within driving distance of a tunnel, good for you, but for me travel and accommodation prices have to be factored in.
For me, skydiving equals entertainment. What I mean by bang for your buck is max entertainment for my dollar spent. For $200 I get a full day of entertainment at a DZ. For $200 I get (at best) and hour at a tunnel. So I think my tight budget rationalization holds up just fine.
Chill...
Canuck
Also to consider is the fact that for many of us tunnel time equals airfare and hotel accommodation rather than driving to our local DZ and sleeping in a tent/trailer/bunkhouse. If you're lucky enough to live within driving distance of a tunnel, good for you, but for me travel and accommodation prices have to be factored in.
For me, skydiving equals entertainment. What I mean by bang for your buck is max entertainment for my dollar spent. For $200 I get a full day of entertainment at a DZ. For $200 I get (at best) and hour at a tunnel. So I think my tight budget rationalization holds up just fine.
Chill...
Canuck
rehmwa 2
I've read your opinions on tunnels in a few threads, so telling me to chill is a pot and kettle thing. Stay light yourself.
Go ahead and run the numbers for 2-ways if you like to still consider it against $$$. We do a lot of 2,3,4 ways for camps when we can get them. So basing financial comparisons on 2-ways is fine.
Like I said - if it's what you prefer, then it's what you prefer. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with using the tool. So I respect your last paragraph position and would expect the same in return.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Go ahead and run the numbers for 2-ways if you like to still consider it against $$$. We do a lot of 2,3,4 ways for camps when we can get them. So basing financial comparisons on 2-ways is fine.
Like I said - if it's what you prefer, then it's what you prefer. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with using the tool. So I respect your last paragraph position and would expect the same in return.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
billvon 2,400
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>We do a lot of 2,3,4 ways for camps when we can get them.
I have done the same, but I also agree with Canuck that 4-way in a tunnel is not anything like 4-way in the air. I find myself getting good at very odd manuevers in the tunnel - turning in place and practically booty-flying to get enough clearance from the wall, getting big whenever I'm going to pass the 'stall area' by the door, using the bounce that happens whenever we do a point that has a compressed etc. In other words, learning a lot of things that will be useless or detrimental in the air.
4-way in a tunnel is like learning to drive in a 12 foot wide alley. You can certainly learn a lot, but at some point you have to add the other dimension.
I've gotten a LOT more benefit out of 2-way. During a 2-way you can work on one manuever exclusively (i.e. zig/mar positioning) without worrying too much about not having enough room. You can stare at the mirror as you try stuff over and over without worrying about the next point on the 4-way dive pool hung on the wall. Most of the improvement in my 4-way skills in freefall have come as a result of 2-way work in the tunnel (i.e. I used to suck; now I suck less.)
I have done the same, but I also agree with Canuck that 4-way in a tunnel is not anything like 4-way in the air. I find myself getting good at very odd manuevers in the tunnel - turning in place and practically booty-flying to get enough clearance from the wall, getting big whenever I'm going to pass the 'stall area' by the door, using the bounce that happens whenever we do a point that has a compressed etc. In other words, learning a lot of things that will be useless or detrimental in the air.
4-way in a tunnel is like learning to drive in a 12 foot wide alley. You can certainly learn a lot, but at some point you have to add the other dimension.
I've gotten a LOT more benefit out of 2-way. During a 2-way you can work on one manuever exclusively (i.e. zig/mar positioning) without worrying too much about not having enough room. You can stare at the mirror as you try stuff over and over without worrying about the next point on the 4-way dive pool hung on the wall. Most of the improvement in my 4-way skills in freefall have come as a result of 2-way work in the tunnel (i.e. I used to suck; now I suck less.)
rehmwa 2
No issues with that.
My issue is the 'bang for the buck' comment. It's always one guy's way and any other stance is wrong. I just crunched the numbers and tossed it out there - it doesn't compare at all.
For me training for 4-way, I get so much more out of one day in the tunnel (time, practice, repetitions) than one day at the DZ. As far as the social stuff, well, it's apples/oranges. We go out and play at night while at a tunnel camp same as at the DZ. (I like exits, I love swoops, I like tracking). A tunnel camp is a vacation for me also, so I have hotel, etc - but I'd rather travel to a tunnel than a DZ, we have DZs here and no one says I couldn't stop at Deland and make a couple jumps anyway during a tunnel camp.
Now for Freeflying, I'm less obsessed and more Type B about it. So I don't see the point in spending money in the tunnel to learn FF. But I really stink at FF. But with FF, I'm all with Canuck's position about B4TB - FF isn't about getting better (for me - and today) it's about goofing around - different kind of fun. I'm much more serious about my learning curve in FS.
So - it's a great tool and extremely cost effective for -what-it-does- compared to trying to learn the same lessons with multiple jumps. That's all, it doesn't have to be the panacea of skydiving, I'm certain last time we checked that it wasn't advertised as such.
FWIW: Unless you are in a parking lot, driving is one dimensional - speed only. Maybe occasionally you turn, but it's really only 1-D. So I see no issue with learning -the mechanics of drivingg - in a 12 foot alley. Maybe more people would learn to stay in their lanes if they did.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
My issue is the 'bang for the buck' comment. It's always one guy's way and any other stance is wrong. I just crunched the numbers and tossed it out there - it doesn't compare at all.
For me training for 4-way, I get so much more out of one day in the tunnel (time, practice, repetitions) than one day at the DZ. As far as the social stuff, well, it's apples/oranges. We go out and play at night while at a tunnel camp same as at the DZ. (I like exits, I love swoops, I like tracking). A tunnel camp is a vacation for me also, so I have hotel, etc - but I'd rather travel to a tunnel than a DZ, we have DZs here and no one says I couldn't stop at Deland and make a couple jumps anyway during a tunnel camp.
Now for Freeflying, I'm less obsessed and more Type B about it. So I don't see the point in spending money in the tunnel to learn FF. But I really stink at FF. But with FF, I'm all with Canuck's position about B4TB - FF isn't about getting better (for me - and today) it's about goofing around - different kind of fun. I'm much more serious about my learning curve in FS.
So - it's a great tool and extremely cost effective for -what-it-does- compared to trying to learn the same lessons with multiple jumps. That's all, it doesn't have to be the panacea of skydiving, I'm certain last time we checked that it wasn't advertised as such.
FWIW: Unless you are in a parking lot, driving is one dimensional - speed only. Maybe occasionally you turn, but it's really only 1-D. So I see no issue with learning -the mechanics of drivingg - in a 12 foot alley. Maybe more people would learn to stay in their lanes if they did.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Canuck 0
OK, now that's funny. It bothers you that it's "always one guy's way and any other stance is wrong" but you end your last post by telling me that I'm "just plain wrong" 
Have fun in the tunnel, I'll have fun in freefall, we'll both come out of it better and poorer.
Canuck
Have fun in the tunnel, I'll have fun in freefall, we'll both come out of it better and poorer.
Canuck
rehmwa 2
QuoteOK, now that's funny. It bothers you that it's "always one guy's way and any other stance is wrong" but you end your last post by telling me that I'm "just plain wrong"
Have fun in the tunnel, I'll have fun in freefall, we'll both come out of it better and poorer.
Canuck
Yeah - I see the irony (but I was being specific in terms of $$$ to flying time and math isn't a subjective science - you turned it from $$ to $$ as a function of fun factor - which is subjective).
See you at the soup kitchen.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kevin922 0
Quote
And yes, I know there is more freefall time in an hour in a tunnel than in 35-40 skydives
This isn't true for us wingsuit flyers! When people make fun of wingsuit flyers I always laugh and tell them I'm getting my money's worth out of the jump
In 40 skydives I can get 80 minutes of freefall on average
rehmwa 2
Quote"my money's worth"
I don't think you want to go down that discussion.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
The problem with tunneltime IMHO, is that it may be a really good 'tool' if you want to get much much better very fast (2hrs airtime in a day) but I started skydiving because I wanted to go skydiving dudes! Getting out in the sunshine, getting in a plane with mates and having a good time is the crack, if it takes me longer to get better doing the real thing so be it!
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Practise the 6 P's!
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Practise the 6 P's!
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rehmwa 2
QuoteThe problem with tunneltime IMHO, is that it may be a really good 'tool' if you want to get much much better very fast (2hrs airtime in a day) but I started skydiving because I wanted to go skydiving dudes! Getting out in the sunshine, getting in a plane with mates and having a good time is the crack, if it takes me longer to get better doing the real thing so be it!
not that there's anything wrong with that - Dudes
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteGetting out in the sunshine
Tunnels run at night too.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
jmvoodoo 0
exactly! and when it's raining! personally, if I don't have to work that day and the sun is shining, i'll be at the DZ. but when the silicon valley tunnel opens you can bet i'll be spending time there at night after work is done and when the weather sucks.
I think its pretty clear that tunnels cannot depend on skydivers alone to fill their schedules. They will have to build up their customer base by producing programs aimed at certain clientele. Skyventure Colorado has had great success in this area. They are extremely busy with very few skydivers filling their time. Military training programs, both domestic and foreign, are also a viable source. In any business, you cannot put all of your focus on one program. You must be creative.
As far as expense goes, money is a small part of achieving personal best, things like time, commitment, and inspiration to work hard get you where you want to go.
ParacleteXP
As far as expense goes, money is a small part of achieving personal best, things like time, commitment, and inspiration to work hard get you where you want to go.
ParacleteXP
Houston is the location for the first multi-level VWT, with two completely different flight areas operating with the same column of air.
The sale is complete and the site is being prepped.. It is owned by Adren-L-N, who currently have the portable in the U.S. with wall to wall air.
So not looking, at this point, IS building. It will be part of an entire complex including competition class climbing walls, yoga, etc. Full body fitness.. one section of the air will be enclosed and the other open, to suit all preferences.
Yippee!!!
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