steve1 5 #1 January 26, 2002 I was wondering what are some possible case scenarios for using your knife when skydiving. If you have a line over type malfunction would be one. If someone was being towed behind the aircraft would be two. I know almost nothing about crew type jumps and I am sure these people are more aware of what could happen than I am. In other words when should you start cutting on someone elses lines and canopy or even your own. Also what is the best type of hook knife to pack? I have seen some crew jumpers who pack a very large one such as the Jack (the ripper type). I wonder if the little cheap ones are worth having. Also where do you pack yours? I would appreciate your input. Thanks Steve, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 January 26, 2002 QuoteI was wondering what are some possible case scenarios for using your knife when skydiving.I think perhaps the one time you absolutely want a hook knife is under a reserve with a line over. I'm sure that the CReW guys have come up with different and exciting ways to use a hook knife too.QuoteI wonder if the little cheap ones are worth having.Well, are you willing to risk your life on a cheap knife? I've seen knives that seem more like toys than potential lifesavers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #3 January 26, 2002 when I I break a line stow packing, I use it to cut the old stuff off.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #4 January 26, 2002 Quotesome possible case scenarios for using your knife when skydivingReserve deploys while climbing out and is damaged during the deployment. This happened at Perris a few years back; the jumper was lucky to survive the landing and the percentage of jumpers there who carry a hook knife skyrocketed in the next couple of weeks; had the jumper had a knife she could have gotten rid of the reserve, deployed her main and landed safely.QuoteI wonder if the little cheap ones are worth havingAny hook knife is better than none if you ever need it. But I don't recommend the little orange plastic ones; there are much better and stronger alternatives out there in the same basic size range, most costing around US$20.QuoteAlso where do you pack yours? Mounted in a pouch on the chest strap is most common. Some rigs are set up to stow a smaller knife inside the mudflap or in a built in pouch on the legstrap.Thanks for the reminder, btw... I need to get a knife on my new rig asap. pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #5 January 26, 2002 For me:#1 is static line JM'ing. (Rare, I do it once in a blue moon.) You need to be able to cut the SL free under certain conditions.#2 entanglement with another jumper. Most mals are not fixable in the time you have - I dare you to reach up and cut a single line on your main even if you're _not_ spinning like crazy. On entanglements, you have two canopies out and (originally) fully flying, so you potentially have more hang time.#3 escape from tree landing, especially if I'm being strangled by my rig or something (has actually happened!)#4 general utility - cutting fuzz off jumpsuits, cutting oxygen hose to length etc.I mount mine either on my altimeter pillow (small one) or in a pocket on my jumpsuit leg (large one.) The small plastic ones seem pretty worthless, but the small metal ones seem to work pretty well.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #6 January 26, 2002 Quotewhen I I break a line stow packing, I use it to cut the old stuff off...You ARE kidding -- right?You should NEVER use your hook knife for ANYTHING except an emergency. Doing so will only dull the blade.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #7 January 26, 2002 QuoteYou ARE kidding -- right?You should NEVER use your hook knife for ANYTHING except an emergency. Doing so will only dull the blade.Paul,Funny you should ask.... No, I don't use mine. I use Grasshopper's knife! (Packers always keep em' around.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #8 January 26, 2002 A hook knife is a toole to occupy your mind while you plummet to the ground..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #9 January 26, 2002 I carry 2 hook knives, minimum, at all times.. They are in different locations, so hopefully one is accessible if I need it.. Of course, there's also the chance that you will drop one if you pull it out and need it.. During CReW, I carry as many as I can find room for on my rig.....at least one is a large, Jack the Ripper type.. I will generally carry one of my dive knives while doing CReW, also, attached to a lateral strap.. There are a lot of situations where you could use one, many have already been mentioned.. Granted, I probably won't have much time to deal with a situation that I may need a hook knife if it was on a freefall jump where I normally deploy at 3k, but I'm gonna fight it until my goggles fill up with blood..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #10 January 28, 2002 Quotehad the jumper had a knife she could have gotten rid of the reserve, deployed her main and landed safely.Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. Just curious. Thanks!JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #11 January 28, 2002 QuoteI didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resortHer main was still in the container; her reserve was out, damaged and spinning and she had plenty of altitude left when she came to underneath it. She said later that had she had a hook knife she'd have gone for it. I think I would too in the same situation.pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #12 January 28, 2002 QuoteI carry 2 hook knives, minimum, at all times.. They are in different locations, so hopefully one is accessible if I need it.. Of course, there's also the chance that you will drop one if you pull it out and need it A warning here - if you do mount a knife somewhere, make sure it's securely mounted. We have a video of a jumper who loses his knife during deployment. The video shows a blur spinning upwards towards the slider, where it cuts three lines before flying off into space. He cut away the resulting mal and landed safely under his reserve. He used one of those little pouches on his legstrap with velcro to hold the knife lanyard, and the velcro got worn after a while.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #13 January 28, 2002 Saturday, Spaceland...After a fairly uneventful sit fly with Zennie (excellent suit dude), I track off and dump as usual. My spectre loaded at around 1.5:1 opens in a steep spiral dive at around 2400 (pro-track dep alt). No twisting, you gotta love those Spectres. ...The reason for the drama was my left hand brake had unstowed and gotten all snarled up in the rear suspension lines and slider grommet....... First thought was chop, and go silver, second thought was hey, the thing is flying....I was taught to look at it twice to make sure.....So I fired off the other brake to put the canopy into a less radical turn, and collapsed the slider to ease the load on my left brake line and stop the slider flapping around. I checked out my air (don't wanna spiral into my buddies), and realised that I could work this issue and still have loads of outs for an off landing. I whipped out my little metal knife, and put it in my teeth just in case, then got to work on the problem lines. Technique was to grab the lines above the tangle and heave to release the tension, then use my free hand to untangle the brake line. I did this about three or four times, stopping to rest, check my landing, and altitude in between some frantic digit action. This is no mean task and probably would have been more difficult on a heavier loaded setup (or a less burly jumper). I freed the tangles at around 6-700, then set up for an off landing in a spot I had been keeping my beady eye on during the whole episode. Decision altude in this particular occasion was to be 500, action would have been to cut the brake line and bring the puppy in on rear risers, which I have practised at altitude, but never had the balls to try out for real.......Without my knife, it would have been adios main, ola reserve at 2000. Okay, I didn't use it on this occasion, but it was an option which enabled me to work this little episode in a reasonable timeframe.For those that are interested, I have type 17 risers, velcro toggles(yup the velcro is in sreasonable shape), slinks, microlines The main is a 170 Spectre, loaded to the max. My new javelin will have velcroless toggles.....Do I jump with a hooknife?, you betcha, its required in the UK off student status. Some folk here in Texas having been looking at it and saying what's that for??? Kids, buy and wear a hook knife, it might save you one day.A special thanks to Slappie's search and rescue efforts, dude the check is in the post . I was back in the same off landing the very next load, after a hybrid with Zennie, Gemini, Hookit, and Trent went somewhat awry, but thats another story.....All this on the same day that an Otter ran out of gas on formation jump run, and a bogie Cessna almost took out a 40 way at break off.......Just another shitty day in paradise.Fly heads up, lets stay safe out there.D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #14 January 28, 2002 Quote Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. If I have a damaged, spinning, uncontrollable reserve out, and my main is still in the container(such as the situation Lisa described, premature reserve deployment)......you bet I'm gonna get rid of it and use my main.. I'll just whip out a couple of hook knives and slice those reserve risers.. In a situation like that, if I have any doubt that the reserve will get me down with a survivable landing, I'm gonna get rid of it and take my chances on my main..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #15 January 28, 2002 "Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. "What else is left? Track for the pond? Unzip the jump suit?I'm with Mike on this one, but I would be tempted to cut the lines as opposed to the risers, prolly quicker/easier IMHO.D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RemiAndKaren 0 #16 January 29, 2002 Also, if you have a premature reserve opeing on exit, you could use your knife to chop it and get back with you load... .. thats what I should have done on mine, but I wussed out! LOLRemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #17 January 29, 2002 "but I would be tempted to cut the lines as opposed to the risers"Sometime last year a guy was killed trying just that. He started cutting the lines on his damaged reserve after a premature during a Free Fly or speed jump. The reserve went into a violent spin and he ended up breaking the knife on his Spectra lines. He died on impact. It's in the Incident reports in Parachutist. If I was going to try it....I would cut risers and not lines...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MyUserID 0 #18 January 29, 2002 Ok, so say you do have to chop those risers...is there any right way to do that? Seems to me if you chop one at a time, the situation could get even more violent until it's all chopped off. How can you do it in such a way that the situation doesnt degrade to the point that you cant complete what you are trying to accomplish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #19 January 29, 2002 I think the only hope of pulling this off sucessfully is to cut one side and then the other. I'm right handed so I would try to cut the left side first and then hold onto it while I cut the right. If you can get that done then just let go and you're back in free fall. However, I don't see cutting through type 17 risers being very easy. I suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. I wouldn't want to do it but I would think you might get a reserve inflated even with one side still attached. Once again...not something I want to try...but there is a chance..."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #20 January 29, 2002 Thanks Clay, I'll update my thinking on this.I hope it never comes to that though....D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Geoff 0 #21 January 29, 2002 QuoteI suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. but you don't get mini-risers on reserves. ?????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #22 January 29, 2002 "but you don't get mini-risers on reserves"Hmm...guess I never paid attention to that.......*shrug*"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #23 January 31, 2002 I just ordered Laura and myself a Jack Knife for our rigs. Where would you think the best place to mount these would be? I want it to be someplace where it can stay there for long times (e.g. not come off easily). Thanks!!JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #24 February 2, 2002 Quote Ok, so say you do have to chop those risers...is there any right way to do that? Seems to me if you chop one at a time, the situation could get even more violent until it's all chopped off. How can you do it in such a way that the situation doesnt degrade to the point that you cant complete what you are trying to accomplish? Easy.....I whip out my TWO hook knives, and slice 'em at the same time.. If you don't have two, well.....then it could get really interesting, but I think the only real option would be, as Clay described, holding on to the one you just cut while you cut the remaining, then let go.. Dicey, but probably doable..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #25 February 2, 2002 Quote However, I don't see cutting through type 17 risers being very easy. I suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. Sorry dude, but no mini risers on reserves...Quote I wouldn't want to do it but I would think you might get a reserve inflated even with one side still attached. Ask Alan what happens when one riser is still attached......granted, it was on a small, highly loaded main.....but I think it will prove the point..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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skybytch 259 #4 January 26, 2002 Quotesome possible case scenarios for using your knife when skydivingReserve deploys while climbing out and is damaged during the deployment. This happened at Perris a few years back; the jumper was lucky to survive the landing and the percentage of jumpers there who carry a hook knife skyrocketed in the next couple of weeks; had the jumper had a knife she could have gotten rid of the reserve, deployed her main and landed safely.QuoteI wonder if the little cheap ones are worth havingAny hook knife is better than none if you ever need it. But I don't recommend the little orange plastic ones; there are much better and stronger alternatives out there in the same basic size range, most costing around US$20.QuoteAlso where do you pack yours? Mounted in a pouch on the chest strap is most common. Some rigs are set up to stow a smaller knife inside the mudflap or in a built in pouch on the legstrap.Thanks for the reminder, btw... I need to get a knife on my new rig asap. pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #5 January 26, 2002 For me:#1 is static line JM'ing. (Rare, I do it once in a blue moon.) You need to be able to cut the SL free under certain conditions.#2 entanglement with another jumper. Most mals are not fixable in the time you have - I dare you to reach up and cut a single line on your main even if you're _not_ spinning like crazy. On entanglements, you have two canopies out and (originally) fully flying, so you potentially have more hang time.#3 escape from tree landing, especially if I'm being strangled by my rig or something (has actually happened!)#4 general utility - cutting fuzz off jumpsuits, cutting oxygen hose to length etc.I mount mine either on my altimeter pillow (small one) or in a pocket on my jumpsuit leg (large one.) The small plastic ones seem pretty worthless, but the small metal ones seem to work pretty well.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 January 26, 2002 Quotewhen I I break a line stow packing, I use it to cut the old stuff off...You ARE kidding -- right?You should NEVER use your hook knife for ANYTHING except an emergency. Doing so will only dull the blade.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #7 January 26, 2002 QuoteYou ARE kidding -- right?You should NEVER use your hook knife for ANYTHING except an emergency. Doing so will only dull the blade.Paul,Funny you should ask.... No, I don't use mine. I use Grasshopper's knife! (Packers always keep em' around.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 January 26, 2002 A hook knife is a toole to occupy your mind while you plummet to the ground..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #9 January 26, 2002 I carry 2 hook knives, minimum, at all times.. They are in different locations, so hopefully one is accessible if I need it.. Of course, there's also the chance that you will drop one if you pull it out and need it.. During CReW, I carry as many as I can find room for on my rig.....at least one is a large, Jack the Ripper type.. I will generally carry one of my dive knives while doing CReW, also, attached to a lateral strap.. There are a lot of situations where you could use one, many have already been mentioned.. Granted, I probably won't have much time to deal with a situation that I may need a hook knife if it was on a freefall jump where I normally deploy at 3k, but I'm gonna fight it until my goggles fill up with blood..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #10 January 28, 2002 Quotehad the jumper had a knife she could have gotten rid of the reserve, deployed her main and landed safely.Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. Just curious. Thanks!JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #11 January 28, 2002 QuoteI didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resortHer main was still in the container; her reserve was out, damaged and spinning and she had plenty of altitude left when she came to underneath it. She said later that had she had a hook knife she'd have gone for it. I think I would too in the same situation.pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #12 January 28, 2002 QuoteI carry 2 hook knives, minimum, at all times.. They are in different locations, so hopefully one is accessible if I need it.. Of course, there's also the chance that you will drop one if you pull it out and need it A warning here - if you do mount a knife somewhere, make sure it's securely mounted. We have a video of a jumper who loses his knife during deployment. The video shows a blur spinning upwards towards the slider, where it cuts three lines before flying off into space. He cut away the resulting mal and landed safely under his reserve. He used one of those little pouches on his legstrap with velcro to hold the knife lanyard, and the velcro got worn after a while.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 January 28, 2002 Saturday, Spaceland...After a fairly uneventful sit fly with Zennie (excellent suit dude), I track off and dump as usual. My spectre loaded at around 1.5:1 opens in a steep spiral dive at around 2400 (pro-track dep alt). No twisting, you gotta love those Spectres. ...The reason for the drama was my left hand brake had unstowed and gotten all snarled up in the rear suspension lines and slider grommet....... First thought was chop, and go silver, second thought was hey, the thing is flying....I was taught to look at it twice to make sure.....So I fired off the other brake to put the canopy into a less radical turn, and collapsed the slider to ease the load on my left brake line and stop the slider flapping around. I checked out my air (don't wanna spiral into my buddies), and realised that I could work this issue and still have loads of outs for an off landing. I whipped out my little metal knife, and put it in my teeth just in case, then got to work on the problem lines. Technique was to grab the lines above the tangle and heave to release the tension, then use my free hand to untangle the brake line. I did this about three or four times, stopping to rest, check my landing, and altitude in between some frantic digit action. This is no mean task and probably would have been more difficult on a heavier loaded setup (or a less burly jumper). I freed the tangles at around 6-700, then set up for an off landing in a spot I had been keeping my beady eye on during the whole episode. Decision altude in this particular occasion was to be 500, action would have been to cut the brake line and bring the puppy in on rear risers, which I have practised at altitude, but never had the balls to try out for real.......Without my knife, it would have been adios main, ola reserve at 2000. Okay, I didn't use it on this occasion, but it was an option which enabled me to work this little episode in a reasonable timeframe.For those that are interested, I have type 17 risers, velcro toggles(yup the velcro is in sreasonable shape), slinks, microlines The main is a 170 Spectre, loaded to the max. My new javelin will have velcroless toggles.....Do I jump with a hooknife?, you betcha, its required in the UK off student status. Some folk here in Texas having been looking at it and saying what's that for??? Kids, buy and wear a hook knife, it might save you one day.A special thanks to Slappie's search and rescue efforts, dude the check is in the post . I was back in the same off landing the very next load, after a hybrid with Zennie, Gemini, Hookit, and Trent went somewhat awry, but thats another story.....All this on the same day that an Otter ran out of gas on formation jump run, and a bogie Cessna almost took out a 40 way at break off.......Just another shitty day in paradise.Fly heads up, lets stay safe out there.D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #14 January 28, 2002 Quote Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. If I have a damaged, spinning, uncontrollable reserve out, and my main is still in the container(such as the situation Lisa described, premature reserve deployment)......you bet I'm gonna get rid of it and use my main.. I'll just whip out a couple of hook knives and slice those reserve risers.. In a situation like that, if I have any doubt that the reserve will get me down with a survivable landing, I'm gonna get rid of it and take my chances on my main..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 January 28, 2002 "Would you recommend that though? I don't know, which is why I'm asking. I didn't know if you should ever trust your main as your last resort. "What else is left? Track for the pond? Unzip the jump suit?I'm with Mike on this one, but I would be tempted to cut the lines as opposed to the risers, prolly quicker/easier IMHO.D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #16 January 29, 2002 Also, if you have a premature reserve opeing on exit, you could use your knife to chop it and get back with you load... .. thats what I should have done on mine, but I wussed out! LOLRemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #17 January 29, 2002 "but I would be tempted to cut the lines as opposed to the risers"Sometime last year a guy was killed trying just that. He started cutting the lines on his damaged reserve after a premature during a Free Fly or speed jump. The reserve went into a violent spin and he ended up breaking the knife on his Spectra lines. He died on impact. It's in the Incident reports in Parachutist. If I was going to try it....I would cut risers and not lines...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyUserID 0 #18 January 29, 2002 Ok, so say you do have to chop those risers...is there any right way to do that? Seems to me if you chop one at a time, the situation could get even more violent until it's all chopped off. How can you do it in such a way that the situation doesnt degrade to the point that you cant complete what you are trying to accomplish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #19 January 29, 2002 I think the only hope of pulling this off sucessfully is to cut one side and then the other. I'm right handed so I would try to cut the left side first and then hold onto it while I cut the right. If you can get that done then just let go and you're back in free fall. However, I don't see cutting through type 17 risers being very easy. I suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. I wouldn't want to do it but I would think you might get a reserve inflated even with one side still attached. Once again...not something I want to try...but there is a chance..."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #20 January 29, 2002 Thanks Clay, I'll update my thinking on this.I hope it never comes to that though....D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #21 January 29, 2002 QuoteI suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. but you don't get mini-risers on reserves. ?????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #22 January 29, 2002 "but you don't get mini-risers on reserves"Hmm...guess I never paid attention to that.......*shrug*"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #23 January 31, 2002 I just ordered Laura and myself a Jack Knife for our rigs. Where would you think the best place to mount these would be? I want it to be someplace where it can stay there for long times (e.g. not come off easily). Thanks!!JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #24 February 2, 2002 Quote Ok, so say you do have to chop those risers...is there any right way to do that? Seems to me if you chop one at a time, the situation could get even more violent until it's all chopped off. How can you do it in such a way that the situation doesnt degrade to the point that you cant complete what you are trying to accomplish? Easy.....I whip out my TWO hook knives, and slice 'em at the same time.. If you don't have two, well.....then it could get really interesting, but I think the only real option would be, as Clay described, holding on to the one you just cut while you cut the remaining, then let go.. Dicey, but probably doable..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #25 February 2, 2002 Quote However, I don't see cutting through type 17 risers being very easy. I suppose mini risers would be an advantage here. Sorry dude, but no mini risers on reserves...Quote I wouldn't want to do it but I would think you might get a reserve inflated even with one side still attached. Ask Alan what happens when one riser is still attached......granted, it was on a small, highly loaded main.....but I think it will prove the point..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
