DZ Regulation

[Strynx 0]

Wassup All! Read in another post (sorry can't remember) That a DZ was regulating the Hook turns. I was wondering you guyz think of this. The post metionned that the DZ was regulating a "c" licence b4 hooking. Should this be wide spread considering the fact that alot of the Injuries/fatalities are related to low turns?
P.L.U.R.

[Remster 24]

considering a C is , what, 100 jumps, it doesnt make much sense to me.... you can have many more jumps and still not know who to fly your canopy for high speed landings.
Having canopy training would properly save more lives.
Rules are ment to be broken, but if someone gets knowledge, they are less likely to do stupid things.
Remster
Muff 914

[AndyMan 7]

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Wassup All! Read in another post (sorry can't remember) That a DZ was regulating the Hook turns. I was wondering you guyz think of this. The post metionned that the DZ was regulating a "c" licence b4 hooking. Should this be wide spread considering the fact that alot of the Injuries/fatalities are related to low turns?

This is realated to a very old discussion. When people just started doing hook turns, many drop zones panicked and banned the practice completely, hoping to put the jeanie back in the bottle. This is why, if you browse the the "Dropzones" section, you'll see the field that states wether hook turns are allowed, at all.
I would be very surprised if anybody here says a C licence at a minimum is an unreasonable requirement. C LICENCE? C'MON. If you're hot shit enough to hook it in, you're hot shit enough to get a C licence.
I wouldn't jump at a dropzone that let people with less then a C hook turn.
Hell, I'd prefer a D.
_Am
5578905 @ ICQ
AndyMan! @ MSN Messenger
ametcalf_1999 @ Yahoo IM

[diverdriver 5]

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Wassup All! Read in another post (sorry can't remember) That a DZ was regulating the Hook turns. I was wondering you guyz think of this. The post metionned that the DZ was regulating a "c" licence b4 hooking. Should this be wide spread considering the fact that alot of the Injuries/fatalities are related to low turns?
P.L.U.R.

You have to seperate Low turn accidents from Hook Turn accidents. One is an intentional manuever to gain speed for the thrill of a long turf serf (hook turn). The other is a turn too low to the ground to recover trying to line up with the wind direction or avoid a hard obstacle (low turn accident). I believe if you look at the "landing accidents" in the past few years there have been more of the Low turn accidents than the Hook turn accidents. Both need education to root them out of our fatalities total. Easily said, tough to do. Needs to be done.
Chris Schindler
D-19012
ATP/CFII
www.DiverDriver.com

[prost 0]

We don't need any hard fast numbers for when you can start doing hook turns. This will not help the situation. What we need is experienced skydivers teaching canopy flight and policing what goes on with inexperienced jumbers. If you are learning a hook turn at 1000 jumps you still need instruction. They also are not for everyone. If we had someone at every dropzone that watched landings and enforced safe canopy practices it would go a long way. This is supposed to be the job of the S&TA. The situation I see a lot today is that the S&TA is someone without any high speed landing experience and eventually just gives up.
William

[Hooknswoop 19]

"If we had someone at every dropzone that watched landings and enforced safe canopy practices it would go a long way. This is supposed to be the job of the S&TA. The situation I see a lot today is that the S&TA is someone without any high speed landing experience and eventually just gives up."
I used to be the S & TA and did exactly that. Then the regional Director felt that I was a poor exapmle to up and coming students (doing hook turns) and made someone else the S & TA. The new S & TA hooks a Jedi 136 and doesn't seem to care what people on the DZ do. Someone recently was seriously injured at that DZ that shouldn't have been dong hook turns. The old school mentality dosn't fit the current state of skydiving.
Derek
Derek

[Strynx 0]

Personally i'm not for regs but rather training. It just seems odd that a dz would do this instead of providing proper training under canopy. I know that $ is an issue but it would serve the sport a whole lot better. just my opinion. Hey Derek, i'm just curious as to why your regional director taught you were a bad example?
P.L.U.R.

[Hooknswoop 19]

I fly a small canopy and do hook turns....
Derek

[Sebazz1 2]

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That a DZ was regulating the Hook turns

I believe it is up to the DZO wether to ban hooking or not. It's their business and their decision. Kinda similair situation in California where they banned smoking at all bars. Yeah smoking kills more people than skydiving does but shouldn't it be up to the the business owner wethetr he allows it or not? Just don't go if you don't like it......
Snivel Snivel Schwack! Thank you sir may I have anotherSeb

[freeflir29 0]

Someone tells me I can't hook it and I will tell them to have a nice day as I drive away. I hook almost every time I land unless traffic is in the way or something else is wrong. I just took a C lic test last week. I started hooking at probably the 60 jump mark. I have 131 now and it's become a normal landing for me. Don't tell me how to fly my F'n canopy!!!
"I only have 131 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[Sebazz1 2]

Or go were they let you fly the way you want..........Or go to the bar were they let you do what you want to do........I like swooping and wouldn't want anyone to tell me how to land my canopy but I will respect the DZ rules....
Seb

[skybytch 259]

I think a dzo should be able to make whatever rules they want - no hook turn landings, only hook turn landings, nobody jumps without a Cypres, no naked jumps, no male jumpers with a penis larger than his, whatever - it's their business, they can make all the rules they want. Whether I'll jump there or not is MY business.
Don't like someone's rules? Vote with your money and go jump somewhere else. Seems pretty simple to me.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[MarkM 0]

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I think a dzo should be able to make whatever rules they want

Yeah, that's the cool thing about DZ's. If there's one you don't like, there's always another one down the road with a different vibe.

[diverdriver 5]

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I started hooking at probably the 60 jump mark. I have 131 now and it's become a normal landing for me. Don't tell me how to fly my F'n canopy!!!

Clay, so if I saw something in your technique that potentially could kill you down the road I can't tell you about it? I'm not a DZO but I am concerned about my friends health in this sport. I had a friend that didn't have that great a canopy control who bought a Jedei 105. I said this was a bad canopy for her. She didn't think so. She smacked in and got banged up. She doesn't jump anymore. Not due to injury. Another friend was told that he had poor technique in his hooking. He disregarded the warning and broke his pelvis. Another friend was told that he had horrible canopy discipline (sp?) while in a group. He said the rest of us were just dumb, drug taking freefliers. He is dead and he took another friend of mine with him in a canopy collision. I think I'll go right on giving canopy control feedback. What anyone does with it is their decision I guess.
Oh, and I do hook turns too. Stilleto 107. I also have 4,500 hours flying. I just want to look out for my friends cuz I know that they most likely won't stop hooking. So we better give them some survival skills before they go some place else that does allow them and plants themselves in.
If someone is telling you that you are doing something wrong or dangerous it may be that they are not just trying to take away your fun. They might be trying to save your life.
Chris Schindler
D-19012
ATP/CFII
www.DiverDriver.com

[SkyDekker 1,150]

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If someone is telling you that you are doing something wrong or dangerous it may be that they are not just trying to take away your fun. They might be trying to save your life.

I could not agree with you more. But for so many people it is so hard to put there ego's on hold long enough to have that sink in.
PS. This si not directed at anyone in particular, just said in general...
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

[billvon 2,454]

>If someone is telling you that you are doing something wrong or dangerous it may be that they are not just trying to
>take away your fun. They might be trying to save your life.
Yep. So far, I've had serious talks with five people who told me that it's none of my business, they're just as safe as X, Y and Z, and everyone else does it anyway. Of those people, one broke his pelvis so badly he'll never walk normally again and one broke his neck. Two, who were luckier, broke smaller bones (femurs.) One actually learned something, the other got out of the sport. The fifth is still jumping, and has used up at least eight of his nine lives. I used to hope nothing ever happened to people like that, but nowadays I hope that their inevitable injuries are enough to scare them but not permanently disable or kill them.
-bill von

[thrillseek 0]

How about instead of pissing all of their jumpers off at the DZ, why not just designate another landing area for those who want to do radical canopy flight?? Lots of accidents could have been prevented by people flying a proper pattern, instead of 8 people doing it right and one guy swooping past everyone...just ask the skygod at Mardi Gras that had traffic issues that sent another jumper to the hospital.

[Strynx 0]

"skygod at Mardi Gras that had traffic issues that sent another jumper to the hospital"
Details Please? Was a case of "it's not me it's every one that does'nt fly a proper pattern" on another note:
I still don't get it when people get mad when friends try to tell them something that might keep them alive. Oh well ego is a double edge sword i guess.
P.L.U.R.

[Sebazz1 2]

Some DZ's won't allow radical canopy flight for the simple fca that they don't allow it. Sometines a DZ will have a tentative lease with their airport or whatever and they don't want anything happening that might endanger thier business. Like people dying Some DZ's don't have that issueSeb

[Remster 24]

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The fifth is still jumping, and has used up at least eight of his nine lives

Giving tips to Laidlaw? just kidding folks...
Clay: good luck with your attitude (maybe the web didnt convey your sarcasm, but it sure sounded like you are on borrowed time if you dont wise up!)
Remster
Muff 914

[MarkM 0]

Jesus guys, ease up a bit. Before you start slamming Clay for "hooking it in" at jump 60, don't you think you should know more about his canopy, wing loading, training?
Or at least have seen him fly?

[PhreeZone 15]

Lets see... Clay jumps a F1-11 PD 190 at a loading of 1.3:1. He was trained by Chuck Blue and the rest of the military jumpers. But he then transfered to Atlanta Air Sportz this year. I think he did like 75 jumps last year (I might be a bit low there). He's primaryly a freeflier that wants to get his coach rating soon. At around jump 130 he hooked it so close to the pond that his canopy fell in it. With my photographic memory I've gathered all that by reading his 5000+ posts on every topic under the sun. He keeps promising to leave here once he gets a new job, but I think he is telling empty promises there.... I think that once you know that much about another pilot you can make better an assement of their ability. And as such if you want to slam or applaude someone when you know that much about thier skills you should be free to do it.... in PM's !!!
Political Correctness - At least one person at any one time will be offended by something

[MarkM 0]

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I think that once you know that much about another pilot you can make better an assement of their ability. And as such if you want to slam or applaude someone when you know that much about thier skills you should be free to do it.... in PM's !!!

Heh heh, not bad.

[freeflir29 0]

Whoa....you guys so missed the point and then I guess the path of flaming someone was so much fun you just couldn't get off at the first exit and turn around. I was reffering to a DZ that absolutely won't allow me to hook my canopy. In that case I won't jump there. I strongly feel that it is the DZ's right to do so. I'm just saying I will take my business elsewhere if that is the case. I won't be mad...I won't flip anyone off...I'll just let them know nicely that I won't be jumping there and why. It's their DZ...not mine. If someone wants to give me ADVICE that is a totally differen't story.
Just to clear things up.....The not so good hook I did Sunday. I was coming into the Atl Air Sportz DZ at about 500 Ft which is my usual altitude for starting down wind. I found that because it was soooooo damn windy it was screwing with my timing. I made an S turn and the first thought was...SHit I'm a little low. I should just do a right 120 or so and land conservatively. 1/2 Sec later I'm thinking well...I can just hook it left and bail when I need to. I knew I couldn't get all the way back around into the wind to the left. So....like a dumbass I went for it. Swung way out and was looking at the ground past the left front corner of my canopy where I was going to land. (Thats when you know it's kinda low...Released the riser and while still swung out forced myself out of the corner and back under the canopy with my brakes. Came in perfectly level with the ground. Although I was forcing it with the brakes which isn't good. Did a very nice carve in a 15 or more MPH cross wind. Went to put my left foot down and it came straight out from under me "Three Stooges Style" because the ground was muddy and very slippery right there. Landed straight on my ass about 5 ft short of a 6 Ft wide pond. Because of the wind direction my canopy blew over the pond and the left front corner and the lines ended up in the water.
Now....No one needs to tell me that was stupid with that kind of cross wind and that low to the ground. You'd be preaching to the Choir. Through a good measure of both skill and luck it didn't kill me and I learned a nice lesson that will stay with me for quite a while. If the hook doesn't feel right...DON'T DO IT!!!!
BTW....I haven't really gotten any swooping advice lately. However I have had several jumpers give me compliments on my canopy flying. They are usually pretty suprised to see me hook and swoop that big of a canopy. I have heard words such as "Impressive, Kick ass, and Holy shit! (In a good way)" from 3 or 4 differen't people with jump numbers ranging from 500 to over 2,000. So...if you haven't watched me land STFU. Hell....ask "Jumpervali" he is a DZO with around 1600 jumps. He made the comment to me that he would be glad to stick up for me on here after watching me swoop. So if you don't believe me....ask the witnesses.
Phreezone.......pretty good memory but I usually jump at Skydive Atlanta in Thomaston, Ga. I was visiting Atlanta Air Sportz in Rome this past weekend. I like both DZ's but they have a radically differen't vibe to them. I'll continue splitting my time between both.
"I only have 131 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[freeflir29 0]

"He keeps promising to leave here once he gets a new job, but I think he is telling empty promises there...."
The interview is next week......it's the US government....you know how fast they are....."I only have 131 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay