zoobrothertom 5 #1 June 4, 2008 F#%@ing spell checker locked up! So, here it is again. Just a thought. Should we compare low pulls from the 'old daze' vs. swooping fatalities today? Have the new studs of the sport traded low pulls (unbeknownst to them) for swooping to get the same thrill? If you've been jumping more than a few years, you've pulled low occasionally. I'm comfortable pulling at 2K when I have to. Also, not uncomfortable when I have to pull at 1500' because someone got over my back without lookig down.! I was fortunate to learn back in '82~83 from the old timers who ocassionally waved me into a 3 way at 2300 feet. Dock around 18~1900 ft, break, staggered pull and sitting in around 1300' ready to chop and pull if need be. So, we can't do that any more (except Friday afternoon) without getting gounded for 30 days. So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten? (That's German for forbidden)____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #2 June 4, 2008 No, we swoop 'cuz chicks dig it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #3 June 4, 2008 Booth's LawOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #4 June 4, 2008 QuoteBooth's Law Booth Law #1 "The lower you pull, the longer your parachute will take to open, and the more likely it is to malfunction." Booth Law #2 "The safer skydiving gear becomes the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant." Sparky Law #6 “If you are going to be stupid you had better be tough.” SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #5 June 4, 2008 Quote Quote Booth's Law Booth Law #1 "The lower you pull, the longer your parachute will take to open, and the more likely it is to malfunction." Booth Law #2 "The safer skydiving gear becomes the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant." Sparky Law #6 “If you are going to be stupid you had better be tough.” Sparky Twardo's Law #13 ~ 2nd one to the crater, gets the best stuff! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #6 June 4, 2008 So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten? Quote Nope...they finally figured out that all ya can do is TIE the low pull record! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #7 June 4, 2008 not to take anything from Bill for noticing its application in skydiving, but he was 9 years behind Gerald J.S. Wilde's book Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #8 June 5, 2008 Quote So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten? Modern skydiving gear is not conducive to making a career out of low pulls and there are more interesting places than airports to scare yourself with ground rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #9 June 5, 2008 Quote Twardo's Law #13 ~ 2nd one to the crater, gets the best stuff! Awesome!!-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnA123 0 #10 June 5, 2008 "So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten" No don't think so. swooping is just a part of what technology provides. Most swoopers and newer jumpers I know are scared SH!@#$% to pull low or even transfer to a reserve. In recent travels I stopped at a new DZ for me and got to make 1 load, a "hop and pop" as they exited at 6000' i thought why not a 4 way? So I scared everone by opening at 2000'. 1st question after the jump was "did I have a problem with my handle? Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW. The low pullers I've known are still alive today or not dead from low pulls. We knew where we were and anticipated having problems, plus the canopies opened faster and in the 80's malfunctions about became extinct. Now we have canopies that are a cutaway because of line twists! Also we shot accuracy, and now people swoop for distance. Swoopers IMO have more of a chance for death/injury due to the close proximinity with the ground when performing their manuvers. See ya"been around, seen some things, slept in dumpsters got high with kings KR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #11 June 5, 2008 Quote ~Real spotting requires looking at the ground... not the green light ~ Red light, Green light was a game played by Engineer Bill with a glass of milk.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 June 5, 2008 Quote Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW. My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #13 June 6, 2008 Quote Quote Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW. My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers. ...and that's why you're still here to tell us about it.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #14 June 7, 2008 Quote Quote Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW. My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers. Wow, I can remember my canopy taking 150 feet to open and then another 50 to pop the brakes; but I started the landing pattern the day before the swoop (not called that yet). I like this topic. When I jumped (70s and 80s) I was quite comfortable with pack opening by 2000 feet, but rarely saw reason to go lower. Doesn’t swooping take a little more talent then just pulling low??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #15 June 7, 2008 Nah, most people have just turned into turbine brats. I 'grew up' on a cessna dz and as such have absolutely no problem exiting at 2000. Most turbine brats would never consider that. Just a matter of perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 June 8, 2008 Hell, I have no problem exiting below 2000 ft. I just won't be swooping, and I'll choose the right equipment for the job.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #17 June 8, 2008 QuoteMost turbine brats would never consider that. Just a matter of perspective. I don’t think it has so much to do with the type of aircraft as it has to do with mind set during training. AFF students complete their student training without ever leaving the a/c below 3,500 feet. As a S/L student I had 10/12 jumps before I ever exited above 3,500 feet. As JP said it’s all about understanding the situation and choosing the right equipment. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwabd1 0 #18 June 9, 2008 I have done both (although I do have a nice pic of my shoe laces in freefall.....taken from the ground!), I have no issues at all exiting at 2000' or for that matter throwing at 1500'. I did not start jumping until 1997 so I guess I missed out on all the good 'ol days........I hereby reject your reality and instead choose to insert my own! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dnhump 1 #19 June 9, 2008 I find thrill in pulling low enough to shit my pants but high enough to avoid cypress-fire... It's a fine line with me! I call it "beat the clock" Wanna play? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #20 June 9, 2008 Quote I find thrill in pulling low enough to shit my pants but high enough to avoid cypress-fire... It's a fine line with me! I call it "beat the clock" Wanna play? Do it without the CYPRES..... bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcecil 0 #21 June 9, 2008 2000' (or slightly lower depending on clouds and airspeed!) doesn't bother me at all, but it is interesting to note in my case both times I've had to cutaway my main and land my reserve were jumps from 2000'. . . . not related to exit altitude (pretty sure same malfunction would've occured from a terminal opening) I don't think, but interesting anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #22 June 9, 2008 So which would say has the greater spectator appeal; swooping is very cool to watch, but terminal freefall below 500' AGL is completely awe inspiring, especially when there is low background noise on the ground. I've made freefalls from planes, helicopters and BASE at 1000 feet but to freefall below a thousand feet while at terminal takes a different breed. All the oldtimer low pull artists I've known seemed to use Piglet (round) canopies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #23 June 10, 2008 QuoteDo it without the CYPRES..... Now we are talking. Want to play? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #24 June 10, 2008 Quote Quote Do it without the CYPRES..... Now we are talking. Want to play? Sparky You bet! No altimeters~ no goggles! ...First one to pull, buys the last one to pull (if alive) free booze all night! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #25 June 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Do it without the CYPRES..... Now we are talking. Want to play? Sparky You bet! No altimeters~ no goggles! ...First one to pull, buys the last on to pull (if alive) free booze all night! You got a deal. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
