DB Cooper

[377 21]

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This info HAD to be circulating in Viet Nam. Anytime jumpers jump something new, word gets out. There is even a guy on dropzone.com who jumped a Russian TU 95 Bear!

Wonder who the 727 jumpers were? The Air America pilot I spoke with who knew zero about 727 jumps had himself hauled indigenous paratroopers over Cambodia for low level S/L jumps. Were these Thai paratroopers perhaps? US military?

The Air America system looks like it worked really well. The NWA 727 jump would have been a lot less scary if you had the information in the film. It would tell you to ask for about 20 degrees of flaps and to deploy immediately. You could also freefall but why risk it if you knew you could safely deploy right out the door? I wonder what the airspeed of the Air America 727 was when dropping S/L jumpers?

Again I hope I am not repeating anything Snow said - I did relook at his posts and don't think this is a repeat - some more details.
From this site: http://actionnooz.com/videos/b727/page4.html

With the video of the test drops, some info - below. Again, bold is my emphasis. (I should note that due to bandwidth issues I have not watched the video, so all the below was news to me.)

***
This snippet is from the CIA/Air America film "Flying Men, Flying Machines" produced circa '70/'71. The air drop tests were likely done at the CIA/Air America facilities at the Takhli Royal Thai Air Force Base in Thailand.The palletized air drops used a modified 727 interior. The ventral stairs are apparently removed and replaced with a ramp the two jumpers slide down. The jumpers use static lines. It is unclear what flight configuration is used, so the exit speed is undetermined. The film makes a point of saying the plane can be pressurized, and unpressurized for the drop. This means the aft door would work normally, and be openable in flight after depressurization.Full video (87 minutes) in a variety of formats, available for free download at http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica/FMFM/index.htm
According to available research, the system, while tested, was never used in an actual mission.Unless you count Flight 305.


So we have:
- a probable location of the test drops (helps narrow down who might have known about them?)
- information that the plane did not need to be unpressurized the whole way. Did Cooper not know this? Or did he figure trying to convince the pilots that they could do this would be too difficult?
- we don't know from the video what the config or speed was, but Cooper knew what he wanted. (apparently - ref the debate about whether he actually asked for 15 deg flaps or the pilots just concluded that from what he asked them)
- information that the stairs themselves were actually not there for the tests (those of you who have watched the video will have figured this out I presume). IF Cooper knew about these tests, how would he have known the stairs could be lowered in flight? Would he have assumed that because the ramp could? Or couldn't he be sure and that is why he wanted them down on take-off. Or... [trumpets sound] maybe he battled to get the stairs down because he had worked with a ramp not stairs??
- apparent information that following the test drops, Cooper was the only time the 727's drop ability was put to practical use.

The tests were done 70-71... great timing?

Did the Feds ever look for paratroopers/airborne etc who happened to be home inbetween tours of duty in Asia at the time the hijacking took place? {Where, o where is Major Major Ckret??}
Edit: if someone was career stationed in Asia this would also be a reason no-one would miss him at home?

Great post Orange. Although it's not entirely clear, looks to me like nothing extends from the Air America 727 during the drops. I think the "ramp" is internal, not something that was lowered like the stairs. When I jumped the Perris DC 9-21, they had a similar setup where the ramp was 100% inside the confines of the fuselage with nothing extending out like ventral stairs would.

Now I'd REALLY like to know the details of the Boeing tests. Were they ramp tests with the stairs removed or did they lower the stairs in flight?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

from navy site
http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/v-22.html

[snowmman 3]

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With the video of the test drops, some info - below. Again, bold is my emphasis. (I should note that due to bandwidth issues I have not watched the video, so all the below was news to me.)

You can download the video, and then play it.
right click and save.
wmv file

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/Air_America_727_air_drop_test_70/_71_1130.html

Orange1: that info you quoted is just stuff I typed at the youtube thing for the video.

There are sites that spider info from youtube, and then create sites to direct people to the youtube video.
So you're not quoting new info..you're quoting people quoting what I put up on youtube...the web is infinite plagiarism like that...everyone's trying to steer traffic to make money...kind of like Jo!

[skyjack71 0]

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What's up with Jo's new avatar? Is this the uniformed guy that Duane insisted she covertly photograph? Looks a lot like Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't he? Was the Jack Ruby hit faked?

377

Photo taken in 1979 in Salt Lake City. This guy was working in the old Business Administration Building - which also housed Church Literature and Visitors Centre. Other offices also occupied space at that time in the building.

Duane had gone into look at the directory - and went down the hall. He said the man was just leaving. We went out and he set me up in front of the Assembly Hall and told me that he wanted me to take pictures - and when a man with a brief case who would be coming out of the building to our left that you cannot see (was set way back and lots of trees) I was to take that mans picture.

Duane left the area so this man could not see him - why all the secrecy - why didn't he want this man to see him with me taking a picture.

When the pictures were developed I put them in the album and Duane asked me where the negatives where - (I thought that was ODD at that time) and only recently found the significance of this photo. When and if you guys do - this case is over. I am still waiting for the confirmation of what I was told about who this was and what the emblem (chevron) on his cuff means.

This outfit appears to be a civilian outfit with brass buttons and a chevron on the cuff - that was and is a clue. Only an elite few were allowed to wear this chevron on the cuff of civilian clothes.

Who is this man, what does the chevron mean, and what was his past and why did Duane NEED this picture? I already have the answer to parts of this, but want verification. I want if from several sources - just because.

I gave this to the FBI months ago and told them about it yrs ago with - Zero interest on their part.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo,
I think when Duane said to "shoot" the guy, he meant with a weapon, not a camera.

Were you involved in other hits?

[377 21]

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This outfit appears to be a civilian outfit with brass buttons and a chevron on the cuff - that was and is a clue. Only an elite few were allowed to wear this chevron on the cuff of civilian clothes.

Jo,

Are you sure about this? Aside from the federal Stolen Valor Act criminalizing false claims of military service and awards, I am unaware of any law dictating who can wear these undefined "chevrons" on their sleeve.

Could be a choir or band uniform or even a hotel doorman's uniform. Why pick such an exotic and heroic explanation when the most likely one is mundane?

And Jo, you really should give Sluggo a green light to post the scans. When you try to control the flow of information it just makes it appear that you wish to suppress evidence that argues against your Duane is Cooper theory. Let someone besides you interpret the evidence you claim to have. Let go a bit and see where unobstructed peer review takes things. Scientists do it all the time with the results of their research . You should too... otherwise you are making the classic cold fusion mistake.

Of all the folks on this forum, Sluggo is the man on anything claiming neutron emission. He would have questioned Pons' and Fleischman's wishful thinking research results immediately had they run the "evidence" by him first. You might not like his conclusions on your Duane evidence but at least let him make them. Give Sluggo some leash Jo, and stop kicking him. What are you thinking? You are already short on friends here.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

from an link in today's www.nbcnews.com
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 23, 2008

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28366880/

"Steganography hides the fact that a message was even sent, usually by hiding it in plain sight. In the movie "A Beautiful Mind," the main character, played by Russell Crowe, becomes convinced that the Communists are hiding messages inside news stories and loses his mind trying to decipher them.

Crowe's character was paranoid, but his fears were not entirely unfeasible."

Now you might ask, what was the main character's real-life name in "A Beautiful Mind" ?

Well, John Forbes Nash of course.

And of all the media you've been reading in the last two weeks, who has been talking about John Nash?

(edit) side note: Nash was born 6/13/28..43 at the time of the hijack.

[Orange1 0]

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Duane had gone into look at the directory - and went down the hall. He said the man was just leaving. We went out and he set me up in front of the Assembly Hall and told me that he wanted me to take pictures - and when a man with a brief case who would be coming out of the building to our left that you cannot see (was set way back and lots of trees) I was to take that mans picture.

Duane left the area so this man could not see him - why all the secrecy - why didn't he want this man to see him with me taking a picture.

The simplest answer, given what we know of Duane, is that he was hatching some kind of criminal scheme with this guy as victim. Of course he wouldn't want to be seen.

The only thing I find really confusing about this is why you didn't ASK Duane at the time why he wanted you to take pictures of this guy without him being around?? Surely you found it strange then as well?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Why pick such an exotic and heroic explanation when the most likely one is mundane?

And not only in this particular circumstance

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[TomKaye 1]

I just want to assure everyone that my entire team is still on the job. Ckret is hard for us to get in touch with too. Experiments are being conducted as we speak.

Snow, I have been trying to track down the cotton fiber test fabric but it seems they stopped making it and ran out of stock a year ago. If you see anything in your surfing please let me know.

We hope all the Cooperites :) have a very happy holiday!

Tom and the Team

[Orange1 0]

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Orange1: that info you quoted is just stuff I typed at the youtube thing for the video.

There are sites that spider info from youtube, and then create sites to direct people to the youtube video.
So you're not quoting new info..you're quoting people quoting what I put up on youtube...the web is infinite plagiarism like that...everyone's trying to steer traffic to make money...kind of like Jo!

Ah, OK. But this was never posted on this site, am I right? I haven't seen discussions on this.

It has led me to add another angle to Orange's Pet Theory though. Staying with loadmaster/kicker (or possibly extending to military jumper without own gear), we lose the Canada angle (accent doesn't work) and focus on someone stationed in Asia who was home on leave for the hijacking.

This gives us someone who had no door fear, could have jumped (if accidentally) before, chose the NB6 cos he was familiar with it, knew the 727 could be jumped (following 377's logic) , and wasn't found in the US because he wasn't there anymore.


Have I left anything critical out of my profile?

Question for vets: I'm betting dollars were happily accepted in SE Asia around the time of the vietnam war? ("negotiable currency"). Those dollars could have been circulating in Asia for years. I'd have to assume that the Ingram find represented a wad that got lost in the jump, assuming the jumper survived.

Still have to take the possibility he bounced. In this case: He wasn't missed at home because he was expected to be in Asia, when he didn't return for duty it was assumed he was AWOL or in Canada as many others were? How long would it have taken before he was really missed under these circumstances? Is it not true that there were a number of soldiers who just went missing in Asia and he might have been assumed by his family to be one of those?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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Snow, I have been trying to track down the cotton fiber test fabric but it seems they stopped making it and ran out of stock a year ago.

thanks, Tom.
But haven't you been listening to Jo?
You think it was just "coincidence" they stopped making it a year ago?

I'll look around.

[377 21]

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We hope all the Cooperites :) have a very happy holiday!

and to the Duanites too!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Ah, OK. But this was never posted on this site, am I right? I haven't seen discussions on this.

?
No one discusses anything I post. I usually post a one off here, there's no discussion, and that's it and we go back to talking about Duane's obsession with bald men in band uniforms.

The info about the testing likely being from Takhli, came from the Leeker post 377 made.
377 gave me additional info that gave the source of Leeker's surmise. The rest was my interpretation of the video. I tried to be accurate. If not, tell me, and I'll correct.

Why do you think I was looking at Takli Air Base, say for the skin color?

The Leeker info, fwded by 377, that id'ed Takhli. Note Leeker's source were the Leary interviews. I posted a link to the Leary papers online also. So while there was no discussion, there were posts.

"...but Air America's/SAT's 727s were used for tests only, as it seems. This is a sentence quoted from my file about Missions to Tibet: "Later, the 727s were even tested at Takhli for air drops with conveyer belt and rollers, because the aircraft could be pressurized until the drop, but although the system worked well, it was never used in operation.[1]" In the documentary Flying Men, Flying machines you can see drops made from one of the 727s.
Kind regards
Dr. Joe Leeker"

[1] Thomas C. Sailer, interview made with Willliam M. Leary at San Francisco on 8 September 1985; professor Leary's notes, preserved at UTD/Leary/ I B14F6.

[377 21]

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Orange1: that info you quoted is just stuff I typed at the youtube thing for the video.

There are sites that spider info from youtube, and then create sites to direct people to the youtube video.
So you're not quoting new info..you're quoting people quoting what I put up on youtube...the web is infinite plagiarism like that...everyone's trying to steer traffic to make money...kind of like Jo!

Ah, OK. But this was never posted on this site, am I right? I haven't seen discussions on this.

It has led me to add another angle to Orange's Pet Theory though. Staying with loadmaster/kicker (or possibly extending to military jumper without own gear), we lose the Canada angle (accent doesn't work) and focus on someone stationed in Asia who was home on leave for the hijacking.

This gives us someone who had no door fear, could have jumped (if accidentally) before, chose the NB6 cos he was familiar with it, knew the 727 could be jumped (following 377's logic) , and wasn't found in the US because he wasn't there anymore.


Have I left anything critical out of my profile?

Question for vets: I'm betting dollars were happily accepted in SE Asia around the time of the vietnam war? ("negotiable currency"). Those dollars could have been circulating in Asia for years. I'd have to assume that the Ingram find represented a wad that got lost in the jump, assuming the jumper survived.

Still have to take the possibility he bounced. In this case: He wasn't missed at home because he was expected to be in Asia, when he didn't return for duty it was assumed he was AWOL or in Canada as many others were? How long would it have taken before he was really missed under these circumstances? Is it not true that there were a number of soldiers who just went missing in Asia and he might have been assumed by his family to be one of those?

Really like your thinking here Orange, probably because it aligns with mine ;-). Even a skydiver with no military experience might have chosen the NB6 if he knew about the Air America 727 jumps. Most skydiving chutes were rated for 150 mph max deployment speed. Military chutes did not have this speed limitation and skydivers from that era all knew it. I used to think a skydiver would have chosen the Pioneer sport rig, but the Air America jumps changed my thinking on that. You'd pick the rig that most closely duplicated those used on known successful jumps from a 727. Why risk canopy damage if you are going to pull right off the steps (the least risky technique since you wouldn't have to deal with freefall stability issues at night). Go with the strong canopy. The risk of a malfunction is tiny, so ignore the reserve issue.

SE Asia domicile with a quick trip in and out of the US makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't be missed either place.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Question for vets: I'm betting dollars were happily accepted in SE Asia around the time of the vietnam war? ("negotiable currency"). Those dollars could have been circulating in Asia for years. I'd have to assume that the Ingram find represented a wad that got lost in the jump, assuming the jumper survived.

What did you think about my post on MPCs, orange1?

Did you understand what it was all about? if not, go back and read it again. I provided links to google books and wikipedia.

I thought my last post, highlighting that MPCs were considered non-negotiable currency was interesting.
Also, the ability to make money on the black market trade of MPCs and real green US dollars. And how you could money order that back home!

More interesting than stupid Vegas casino theories!

US green money was worth more in SE Asia in the late '60s, then in the US.

Doesn't mean anything, but it points out how shallow our thinking has been.

[377 21]

As for the 727 airdrop/jump capabilities never being used outside of the Takli tests... MAYBE.

I know for a fact that prototype electronics stuff was used on operational missions in Nam, but the official story is that they were never deployed in combat.

The above anecdote proves zero about the 727 jump capability, but it is hard to believe such an expensive and capable system wasnt used operationally. Someone developed it for a reason, not on spec. It was expensive, it worked and it filled a gap in aircraft capability. How believable is it that it was mothballed?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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...at the war's end, in the spring of 1973. More than 2,000 Americans remained unaccounted for at that time.

...Of the more than 2,000 American soldiers still missing in Vietnam, most are listed as dead -- despite a lack of supporting physical evidence.

(they talk about between 591 and 1205 POWs - 591 were returned by the North Vietnamese; even if 1205 is the right number, there are still hundreds of unaccounted for servicemen that would not have been POWs.

Source for above: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/mia.html

Wiki gives us a breakdown by branch of service in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
For example, there were 649 Air Force personnel missing, of which 185 appear to be accounted for.
They also give a breakdown between missing in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and China.

This is all rather sobering reading but if you wanted to disappear... good cover.

this site http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/files.htm
has a database of the missing. you can search by branch of service, home state, or name.

And I kid you not, one of the missing is a Daniel Cooper. http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/HTML/pmsea_html_c.htm (scroll down the alphabetical list)
If that isn't enough, his home state is Oregon.
He is listed as killed in action, body not recovered.

For people looking for circumstantial evidence, coincidences etc as the bedrock of a "case", you surely can't get much better than a Dan Cooper from Oregon as a suspect. (I'm not saying this was the guy, I fear it more likely he met a sad end in Vietnam ..but it does go to show that plenty wierd "coincidences" "strange facts" etc are out there if you look for them).

Searching by state, looking only at those listed as "presumptive death" (ie those missing presumed dead), there are 22 from Washington, 2 of which went missing after the hijack http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/unaccounted/pmsea_una_p_wa.pdf and 17 from Oregon, although only one who went missing after the hijack; and that was pretty soon after (end Dec 1971), but the guy was a civilian. http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/unaccounted/pmsea_una_p_or.pdf

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Ah, OK. But this was never posted on this site, am I right? I haven't seen discussions on this.

?
No one discusses anything I post. I usually post a one off here, there's no discussion, and that's it and we go back to talking about Duane's obsession with bald men in band uniforms.

The info about the testing likely being from Takhli, came from the Leeker post 377 made.
377 gave me additional info that gave the source of Leeker's surmise. The rest was my interpretation of the video. I tried to be accurate. If not, tell me, and I'll correct.

Why do you think I was looking at Takli Air Base, say for the skin color?

The Leeker info, fwded by 377, that id'ed Takhli. Note Leeker's source were the Leary interviews. I posted a link to the Leary papers online also. So while there was no discussion, there were posts.

"...but Air America's/SAT's 727s were used for tests only, as it seems. This is a sentence quoted from my file about Missions to Tibet: "Later, the 727s were even tested at Takhli for air drops with conveyer belt and rollers, because the aircraft could be pressurized until the drop, but although the system worked well, it was never used in operation.[1]" In the documentary Flying Men, Flying machines you can see drops made from one of the 727s.
Kind regards
Dr. Joe Leeker"

[1] Thomas C. Sailer, interview made with Willliam M. Leary at San Francisco on 8 September 1985; professor Leary's notes, preserved at UTD/Leary/ I B14F6.

Stop pouting

Maybe it was the "bit here bit there" that I missed, and I haven't always followed links, and I was probably distracted at the time... I have a lot more time on my hands right now (as you may have noticed).

If nothing else, all this other stuff is interesting at least... even if it doesn't lead anywhere.

Hmmmmmmm... army band, maybe?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

There are some good science papers that unfortunately need to be paid for. Maybe some of the researchers who published using the Shirley soil burial cotton test strips might have some still on hand, or recommend similar?

The Shirley Institute is now called the British Textile Technology Group. (merger of Wira and Shirley Institute). Site is
http://www.bttg.co.uk/about_BTTG.cfm

Like this guy in Norway

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VG6-3VVT3WM-43&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ee8b7eae180e9cf1f79317e451ff787d

Biodegradation and characterization of water-degraded archaeological textiles created for conservation research

E. E. Peacock

Vitenskapsmuseet, The Norwegian University of Science and Technology, N-7004, Trondheim, Norway

Received 6 December 1994;
accepted 17 April 1996. ;
Available online 22 February 1999.

Abstract

Modern undyed natural fiber textile fabrics were experimentally biodegraded for use in archaeological textile conservation research. Specimens were exposed to soil burial in sandy loam, soil burial in peat, and prolonged soaking in unchanged distilled water for periods of 0.5–32 weeks. The degraded fabrics were evaluated by microscopic examination, chemical analysis, and physical methods of testing. Results of macro- and micromorphological analysis are reported. Fabric cross-sections were analyzed using light microscopy, and fabric, yarn and fiber surfaces were examined by scanning electron microscopy. Soil burial was more aggressive than prolonged soaking, and sandy loam more aggressive than peat except for the wool. Cellulose-based fabrics were less resistant to biodegradation than protein-based fabrics, linen was less resistant than cotton, and wool was less resistant than silk. Based upon visual assessment, the experimentally-degraded fabrics are similar to both water-degraded archaeological textiles and burial-induced degraded modern textiles reported by other studies.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VG6-3VVT3WM-42&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1996&_alid=844516620&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=mlkt&_cdi=6030&_sort=v&_st=17&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=169&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1eb03449f96b0f08160682be33cee25b
Characterization and simulation of water-degraded archaeological textiles: a review

E. E. Peacock

Vitenskapsmuseet, The Norwegian University of Science and Technology, N-7004, Trondheim, Norway

Abstract

Textiles recovered from marine, terrestrially wet, and frozen archaeological contexts are degraded primarily by microorganisms which have attacked and consumed material leaving the physical structure weakened. The type and extent of this damage vary for different fiber types especially between those of vegetable and animal origin. These variations place differing requirements upon the post-excavation conservation of this material. Appropriate conservation is dependent upon an assessment of the condition of the textile. There has been little study of how terrestrial wet and frozen burial contexts have altered the basic morphology and chemistry of natural fiber textiles. Neither has there been much study of how, through actualistic and laboratory experiments, these contexts modify the characteristics of never-buried textiles to provide comparative data with which to interpret the archaeological material. Relevant studies are scattered among several disciplines. A limited review is presented of two topics relevant to the assessment of water-degraded archaeological textiles: (1) studies of the characterization of natural fiber textiles degraded by microorganisms; and (2) methods and studies to simulate these degradation processes.

[377 21]

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US green money was worth more in SE Asia in the late '60s, then in the US.

Good point Snow. Might have been enough to keep a guy going for a long long time over there, even accounting for the lost portion found by Ingram.

Too bad Cooper couldn't have saved some crisp 20s and set up an untraceable way to auction them off much later for his retirement. Nahh, I guess it wouldn't work. Didn't the insurance company own the twenties after paying the claim?

Do you see any ramp extending out of the 727 during the drop tests? Looks to me like the stairs were removed and the interior ventral passage aft of the door was lined with sheet metal making a "ramp". That way nothing had to be deployed into the slipstream making things much simpler. That's exactly how the Perris DC 9 is configured for jumping.

Wonder who the guy is sliding down the ramp in the ground shots? Military? Civilian?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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***

Do you see any ramp extending out of the 727 during the drop tests? Looks to me like the stairs were removed and the interior ventral passage aft of the door was lined with sheet metal making a "ramp". That way nothing had to be deployed into the slipstream making things much simpler. That's exactly how the Perris DC 9 is configured for jumping.

Yeah. And while I doubt Cooper had any direct info on this CIA test, note that the test would mean you'd have knowledge of the door, but not necessarily knowledge of stair deployment.

I think that's just coincidence though.

Remember: Ckret did drop a line at some point where he said the FBI interviewed the people that did the "food drop" test. What we don't know is if it was these CIA folks, or different Boeing folks doing their own testing.

[Orange1 0]

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Question for vets: I'm betting dollars were happily accepted in SE Asia around the time of the vietnam war? ("negotiable currency"). Those dollars could have been circulating in Asia for years. I'd have to assume that the Ingram find represented a wad that got lost in the jump, assuming the jumper survived.

What did you think about my post on MPCs, orange1?

Did you understand what it was all about? if not, go back and read it again. I provided links to google books and wikipedia.

I thought my last post, highlighting that MPCs were considered non-negotiable currency was interesting.
Also, the ability to make money on the black market trade of MPCs and real green US dollars. And how you could money order that back home!

More interesting than stupid Vegas casino theories!

US green money was worth more in SE Asia in the late '60s, then in the US.

Doesn't mean anything, but it points out how shallow our thinking has been.

Sorry Snow.. I did read the post but wasn't concentrating on currency at the time. Possibly also because any economist worth their salt could have told you that was gonna happen, it didn't really register as "unusual" (and thus it didn't stick in my mind).

Your points are all valid; I was more thinking along the lines that what typically happens in a country at war - generally means high inflation and rapidly depreciating currency - whether or not it is legal, hard currency (usually the USD) becomes the de facto currency. (Even in a country not at war but hyperinflationary - eg's of Latin America in the 80s, Zimbabwe today). So throughout SE Asia at the time, day to day transactions were probably pretty dollarized. This is what i mean by the dollars could have been circulating for years - and outside a legal system, or in a situation where people would not want to exchange them for their own currency, their chances of ever finding their way back to the US would be pretty small. Ergo, your serial numbers get lost in Asia...

I also have to beg some forgiveness in general, not trying to make excuses but i have been running on about 4-6 hours sleep a night for the past 3 months when I am one of those people who needs 8-10. I get sloppy as a result sometimes.

So, it's late here and I am off to sleep.
May I echo greetings of
merry christmas & happy chanukah to all.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

All good points Snow, but if word got out to skydivers in SE Asia they'd drill down for more info. Jumpers contemplating newly jumped acft want to know exit speed, door situation (removed? openable in flight? potential snag points? etc.). Maybe the details were not forthcoming but the questions would definitely be asked. The basic issue to a jumper encountering a new acft is what do I have to pass through until I am free of the aircraft structure (e.g. stairs) and is there a risk of hitting something after exit (like a horizontal stabilizer).

Doesn't "food drop" imply Air America drops? If they were just referring to inhouse Boeing tests they wouldn't likely be called food drops would they?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

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Ergo, your serial numbers get lost in Asia...

Interesting! Are there any studies about dwell time of US currency abroad, especially in SE Asia? Does it just recirculate endlessly in country or does it come back to the US?

Just ONE undamaged Cooper bill in SE Asia or anywhere would sure get my blood pressure up. Bet the serial numbers were not widely published in SE Asia. The bills probably could have been spent without much fear of detection.

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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.