DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins:

If you think you have new information the only way the FBI will accept this information is for the individuals to WALK into the FBI office and provide some substance - not hearsay.

All you do is stall for time - and keep right on drilling on a suspect that is NOT Cooper and was NOT Cooper.

Yes, I do think you stepped into something, but you didn't see it because your focal was a best seller and not looking for the truths.

NONE of your teasing or changing of things is going to help you get past this...only information that the FBI has been looking for. Perhaps you have hampered this investigation long enough but, then you didn't see it. It had to be pointed out to you.

BUT, you do NOT know the implications - you take a little juicy piece of the bark and you chew on it, but you have to know the tree from with that bark came from to know the consequences of the consumption of the toxins or benefits it might provide.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[duane2 0]

The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

***The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

Really? Maybe not. Thanksgiving 1971 is a day most NW residents remember if they're old enough. No cable, no internet, just the nonstop feeds from TV stations in Seattle from SeaTac. And Cronkite. Find out where he was on Thanksgiving that year. Any possible suspects need a solid alibi for that day to be truly eliminated.
Blevins,

If Cooper was dead on Thanksgiving Day 1971 (the day after the hijacking), would that eliminate your and Jo's candidates? I'm sure both of you will try to find a way to dodge that "alibi".

Robert99

[Amazon 7]

Robert99

******The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

Really? Maybe not. Thanksgiving 1971 is a day most NW residents remember if they're old enough. No cable, no internet, just the nonstop feeds from TV stations in Seattle from SeaTac. And Cronkite. Find out where he was on Thanksgiving that year. Any possible suspects need a solid alibi for that day to be truly eliminated.
Blevins,

If Cooper was dead on Thanksgiving Day 1971 (the day after the hijacking), would that eliminate your and Jo's candidates? I'm sure both of you will try to find a way to dodge that "alibi".

Robert99

Produce a skeleton in a parachute harness with UV destroyed parachute remnants all around it.

[Robert99 37]

Amazon

Produce a skeleton in a parachute harness with UV destroyed parachute remnants all around it.

Amazon,

Cooper's parachute canopy is probably still in the container. Consequently, there will probably be few UV destroyed remnants.

As for the skeleton, there is a very, very remote possibility that after 42 years it might still exist, and probably be buried, very near Tina Bar. With the raincoat and the parachute harness helping to hold things together, DB's bones could still be reasonably intact.

Based on your personal knowledge of the Tina Bar area, would you be willing to answer the following questions:

1. When did you base your boat at the boat facility that is now located between the Washington shore line and Caterpillar Island? Do you know when that boat facility was constructed? Were the "mud flats" between the Washington shore line and Caterpillar Island dredged to permit relatively small boat passage?

2. Was there ever a sunken boat, dock, or some type of pier at the north end of Caterpillar Island that would produce vortices in the Columbia River water flow?

3. Have you been on Caterpillar Island and are you familiar with its topography? Is the vegetation on Caterpillar Island seasonal or does it stay essentially the same year round?

4. When the Columbia River water level was about 15 feet or so above sea level, did you still keep your boat in the same facility or did you move it?

Robert99

[MarkBennett 5]

duane2

The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

Duane,
If you're interested in the subject, why not stay around and learn more about the case? There's not been much new lately, but earlier in this thread (and in the prior thread that is now closed), there is a lot of really good information about the case.

It doesn't matter what brought you here, but you're welcome to stay.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Based on your personal knowledge of the Tina Bar area, would you be willing to answer the following questions:

Not really... My interest in answering questions from those who like to cause grief here does not interest me.

Too much vinegar under the bridge.

[Robert99 37]

Amazon

Quote

Based on your personal knowledge of the Tina Bar area, would you be willing to answer the following questions:

Not really... My interest in answering questions from those who like to cause grief here does not interest me.

Too much vinegar under the bridge.

Georger was right.

[Amazon 7]

Robert99

***

Quote

Based on your personal knowledge of the Tina Bar area, would you be willing to answer the following questions:

Not really... My interest in answering questions from those who like to cause grief here does not interest me.

Too much vinegar under the bridge.

Georger was right.

Nope try again.

The major reason that a bunch of the skydivers here wish that the daily pant load of pettiness just migrate over to the other site where it belongs..

My NAME is JEANNE CAMERON... and I approve this message.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"... My NAME is JEANNE CAMERON... and I approve this message."

My name is Cousin Brucie, and I approve of Jeanne Cameron!

[BruceSmith 3]

duane2

The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

I wish you well, Duane2, in your journeys to come. Thanks for stopping by for a spell at the DB-Cooper-DZ-Biker-Bar-and-Grill.

Don't be a stranger - after all ya gotta find out who's the latest to get grilled or barred. Soon it'll feel like family.....

[Robert99 37]

Amazon

******

Quote

Based on your personal knowledge of the Tina Bar area, would you be willing to answer the following questions:

Not really... My interest in answering questions from those who like to cause grief here does not interest me.

Too much vinegar under the bridge.

Georger was right.

Nope try again.

The major reason that a bunch of the skydivers here wish that the daily pant load of pettiness just migrate over to the other site where it belongs..

My NAME is JEANNE CAMERON... and I approve this message.

Please read my reply to your PM.

I agree with your remarks above.

My name is ROBERT NICHOLSON and I approve the above message.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

Blevins writes:

Thanksgiving 1971 is a day most NW residents remember if they're old enough. No cable, no internet, just the nonstop feeds from TV stations in Seattle from SeaTac.

. . . . .

Any possible suspects need a solid alibi for that day to be truly eliminated.

R99 writes:

Blevins,

If Cooper was dead on Thanksgiving Day 1971 (the day after the hijacking), would that eliminate your and Jo's candidates? I'm sure both of you will try to find a way to dodge that "alibi".

Blevins writes:

Of course it would.

. . . . .

[But] no body, no proof he died.

R99 writes:

The absence of a body in a case like this is also not proof that Cooper didn't die. But the preponderance of evidence suggests that Cooper did die.

The Cooper hijacking is basically just a two bit crime in which Cooper fell through the cracks both figuratively and literally.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

MarkBennett

***The determinations I've been able to make, resulting from presenting my information have led me to be able rule out Duane Dick Jarman as a potential suspect for D.B. Cooper. I suppose I could consider my efforts an embarrassment but since those efforts brought me closure regarding my suspect it's allowed me to move on and so I am content. Since a potential suspect was at the core of what I had to offer, there is nothing further I have to offer to the case that isn't already covered by those with more of a propensity for exploring it. I appreciate the encouragement and well wishes that came as a result of my efforts and reciprocate those sentiments.

Duane,
If you're interested in the subject, why not stay around and learn more about the case? There's not been much new lately, but earlier in this thread (and in the prior thread that is now closed), there is a lot of really good information about the case.

It doesn't matter what brought you here, but you're welcome to stay.

Jo seconds that!

Very inspiring to find someone who will admit they stepped in over their head. From Duane2s picture I assume he is a relatively young person.

I did not read his book or article as all of you know I only have dial up and it is U-Tube - well, I just cannot go there. I would be interested in reading his short story if he would be so kind as to send it to me in a word program.

As all of you are aware I have made NO comments regarding his book because I could not read it - but from what everyone here has stated - I give the young man A plus for effort.

Nice to know there are still polite young men around. I would be curious to know why the subjects relatives or friend thought the guy was Cooper and more about the man's past...and if he ever claimed he was Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Quote

'The absence of a body in a case like this is also not proof that Cooper didn't die. But the preponderance of evidence suggests that Cooper did die.

The Cooper hijacking is basically just a two bit crime in which Cooper fell through the cracks both figuratively and literally.

Robert99'

There IS no evidence he died. Absolutely NONE. Where do you get that? The money at Tina Bar? You'll have to do better than that.

Two-bit crime? In today's dollars, $200,000 would be worth approximately $1,040,000. (Source: Inflation Calculator dot com) I would call that a step or two above 'two bit crime'.

Blevins, I have suggested several times that you get yourself a good dictionary and look up the actual meaning of some of the words you use but apparently don't comprehend.

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "evidence". My desk dictionary includes the following meanings for "evidence':

1. Information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

2. Signs; indications.

3. [Law Enforcement] Drawn from personal testimony, a document, or a material object, used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in a law court.

You are obviously interested in applying the Law Enforcement definition to my remarks. Since you demand a body, I presume you are referring to a "material object" as mentioned above. And the only material object that you will accept in evidence is Cooper's body. Consequently, you are using the most restrictive interpretation from the definition of the term. And this definition is limited to man made courts of law. And the laws themselves are man made.

However, whether or not Cooper died in the jump is not subject to man made laws or courts of law. The laws of Mother Nature are the determining factor here and they are not subject to human laws or courts in any respect whatsoever.

And there is, in fact, evidence both physical and derived from physical considerations, that Cooper died in the jump. Some of this has been discussed in this thread over the past several years. You really should read the posts on the thread also.

It should also be pointed out that your accusations against KC do not meet any of the requirements of definitions 1 and 2 above, much less definition 3. You apparently feel that other people are the ones to present "proof" while you only present wild-eyed speculations to support your claims.

Finally, regardless of the amount of the loot, the Cooper hijacking was still just a two-bit crime. In my opinion, it should and could have been solved before the end of 1971 and, in any event, before the end of 1972. It might be a good idea for you to also look up the meaning of the word "two-bit".

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

R99 writes:

Quote

If Cooper was dead on Thanksgiving Day 1971 (the day after the hijacking), would that eliminate your and Jo's candidates? I'm sure both of you will try to find a way to dodge that "alibi".

The absence of a body in a case like this is also not proof that Cooper didn't die. But the preponderance of evidence suggests that Cooper did die.

The Cooper hijacking is basically just a two bit crime in which Cooper fell through the cracks both figuratively and literally.

Robert99

Well, Jo's answer is what she has claimed in the past. "If Duane Weber was NOT Cooper he sure as hell knew who was!"

Remember the only Statement Duane made directly referring to Cooper on that 1979 Sentimental Journey?

"That's were Cooper walked out of the woods.".....and I replied "How would you know!" His reply was "Maybe I was the one on the ground."

Robert99, Jo does NOT lie nor does she make up fantasies! The rest of the trip I did not understand until one yr and 2 months after his death in 1995.

Hardly a day goes by in the last yr that I have not cursed Duane for telling me and showing me what he did and more so myself for ever aquiring any knowledge about Cooper.

I have tried many times just to walk away from it - but, I really need to know the truth - regardless of what the out come is.

To find Cooper's body - well, honestly I would feel relief, but I would still curse the day I learned who Dan Cooper was.

Duane was NOT smart enough to have probagated such a lie with the details that were told to me on that trip - details and places he took me to.

IF Duane Weber was NOT Cooper he sure as hell knew who was...and he finished the mission by depositing the monies in 3 places along the Columbia.

NOT one person as ever gone to the archived land searches done for appraisal and historical sites to find out who owned property in one of these 3 places along the river between 1938 and 1971...

Topper Dr., Lieser Pt., and Image Lane.

I think the ownership of a home that was there during those yrs will be the final thing I NEED to know.
I do not live in Vancouver and many times I have requested someone do this for me - but, no one here wants the truths to be known - and they simply ignore my plea.

A historical search of the owners of the land along the river in those 3 locations - would cost about $5500.
That is money that I do not have.

If I lived there - I would already have done it myself as that is what appraisors do....I am not an appraisor. but a former real Estate agent in the State of CO and FL.

This was done because the story that went with the land was not what the title company had recorded - and we wanted to see the old records for ourselves. There seemed to have been some dispute about the boundary lines and how the land was acquire and an indian burial ground.

I forget now why this was so important to them...

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, I have suggested several times that you get yourself a good dictionary and look up the actual meaning of some of the words you use but apparently don't comprehend.

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "evidence". My desk dictionary includes the following meanings for "evidence':

1. Information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid...' (etc)

I should get a dictionary? You're kidding. I've edited somewhere around FIFTY books to date. My English is just fine, thanks.

You are dancing around the question. You said the evidence points to Cooper most likely being killed in the jump. You called it a two-bit crime and I showed you that the hijacker would have had to ask for just over a million dollars today to get what he actually received in 1971.

If you believe Cooper died in the jump, stop quoting me definitions of evidence from the dictionary and provide some. Three bundles of money (approximately) found together on the banks of the Columbia does not prove Cooper died in the jump. It only proves $5,800 was found there.

Blevins, Compose yourself and actually read post #54814.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

Jo, I am not going to repeat your post, but Duane Weber did not have anything to do with the Cooper hijacking.

Law Enforcement people have reportedly stated that Cooper knew just enough about parachuting to get himself killed.

Duane Weber did not even know that much. Duane's life as a failed career criminal simply did not prepare him for such a giant step up in the criminal world. Sorry.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

******Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Blevins, I have suggested several times that you get yourself a good dictionary and look up the actual meaning of some of the words you use but apparently don't comprehend.

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "evidence". My desk dictionary includes the following meanings for "evidence':

1. Information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid...' (etc)

I should get a dictionary? You're kidding. I've edited somewhere around FIFTY books to date. My English is just fine, thanks.

You are dancing around the question. You said the evidence points to Cooper most likely being killed in the jump. You called it a two-bit crime and I showed you that the hijacker would have had to ask for just over a million dollars today to get what he actually received in 1971.

If you believe Cooper died in the jump, stop quoting me definitions of evidence from the dictionary and provide some. Three bundles of money (approximately) found together on the banks of the Columbia does not prove Cooper died in the jump. It only proves $5,800 was found there.

Blevins, Compose yourself and actually read post #54814.

Robert99

Scanned it a second time. Didn't see anything on evidence Cooper died in the jump. Didn't see anything that discounts the idea that $200,000 extorted from NWA in 1971 is anything close to a 'two-bit crime'.

Blevins, I didn't say to "scan" the post, I said to "read" it. I guess you need to look up the meaning of the word "read" also.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

***Jo, I am not going to repeat your post, but Duane Weber did not have anything to do with the Cooper hijacking.

Law Enforcement people have reportedly stated that Cooper knew just enough about parachuting to get himself killed.

Duane Weber did not even know that much. Duane's life as a failed career criminal simply did not prepare him for such a giant step up in the criminal world. Sorry.

Robert99

Wonderful pronouncements, but rather thin. Notice you went to Kenny and Duane Weber the second you were asked to provide anything solid you may have on the idea the hijacker was killed in the jump.
The Tina Bar money doesn't count because you can't trace the delivery source. I said a long time ago that the money actually creates more questions than it answers. You've extrapolated the money into a theory that Cooper must have pancaked nearby. Problem is, you haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support that theory. I'm not saying there isn't any, maybe you have something.

But running off to your Kenny and Duane Weber stuff isn't addressing that issue. Let's face it. Saying that Cooper died in the jump is a pretty big deal, and since no body, no chute, no briefcase, no paper bag, and only a portion of the money discovered under cloudy circumstances...it's a tough sell, a BIG sell.

Maybe you have something to present that supports this theory? You may have some evidence, I don't know. But so far I've seen zip.

Blevins, Zip is still a lot more than you have presented to support your allegations against KC. So I will just ignore your attempts to shift the focus from yourself.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

I was talking about your claims that the Cooper hijacking was a two-bit crime and that Cooper died in the jump. I already proved to you that your first statement isn't true, and the other one is unsupported.

As I said, that's a fairly big claim you make. Yet you keep dancing around presenting the slightest shred of evidence to support such an idea. (Cooper died) This has nothing to do with Christiansen or Duane Weber.

Blevins,

You seem to have some difficulties with the English language. I have repeatedly suggested over a long period of time that you get a dictionary and look up the meaning of some of the words you use. In fact, in just the past 24 hours I have suggested several words that you apparently don't know the meaning of.

To repeat, the Cooper hijacking was a two-bit crime regardless of the value of the loot. [HINT: The word "two-bit" does not necessarily refer to the loot.]

As I have also told you on numerous occasions, there is more to suggest that Cooper died in the jump than has been discussed on this thread. Your allegations that this statement is unsupported are preposterous.

Your efforts to disassociate yourself from the KC fiasco are understandable. All I did was point out that you accepted frivolous "evidence" when it supported your claims about KC. But now that those claims have been proven baseless, you are claiming that other people should be held to a higher standard of proof than yourself.

Neither KC nor Duane Weber had anything to do with the Cooper hijacking. You will deny this as long as there is a chance of you making a buck from a screen play or book.

Jo Weber will continue to claim forever that Duane was Cooper regardless of all evidence to the contrary.

Robert99

[Guru312 0]

RobertMBlevins

...
As far as 'making a buck' on Cooper, it isn't like there haven't been others in that department.
...

As the first person to start making money from DB Cooper--within about a week of the hijacking-- I raise my hand.

There is a BIG difference, Robert, between my method of making money from Cooper and yours. You and so many other "authors" are utilizing this thread as a free marketing platform for either your book on Cooper or some other topic.

The constant bickering between you and georger, and others, is offensive.

Why don't you guys man-up and have the balls to stay on topic.

This the DB Cooper thread on DropZone.com not your free podium for self-aggrandizement.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...Law Enforcement people have reportedly stated that Cooper knew just enough about parachuting to get himself killed...."

Robert, what do you think of Earl Cossey's initial assessment that Cooper made it, and in fact anyone with basic parachuting skills could have made a successful jump.

Also, Geoffrey Gray, in his memorial pieces on Coss after his death, says that Coss was going back to his original view after telling the world for 40 years that Cooper cratered.

Additionally, what's your take on the successful landing of all the copy cats who jumped?

1. Robb Heady
2. Richard LaPoint
3. Martin McNally
4. Richard McCoy

If Cooper didn't make it and these guys did, then how come? Why was Cooper different? What made Cooper unsuccessful? After all, McNally didn't even know how to put on a parachute.

Dumb luck? Bad luck? Unforeseen difficulties?

It begs the question: are the LE who say Cooper didn't make it lying, misinformed, spinning the story for an unknown agenda, or establishing their perspective on facts that are not public at this time?

Yes, Larry Carr said repeatedly that Cooper most likely tumbled hopelessly and died as a panicked no-pull. But what did he base that speculation upon? Cossey's assessment from 1972-2012? How come Larry never seemed to include other possibilities, such as those so ably presented by 377 in Portland in 2011?

I get the sense from your posts that your basic position is: if the cops say it's true, then it's true.

[Amazon 7]

BruceSmith

Quote

"...Law Enforcement people have reportedly stated that Cooper knew just enough about parachuting to get himself killed...."

Robert, what do you think of Earl Cossey's initial assessment that Cooper made it, and in fact anyone with basic parachuting skills could have made a successful jump.



I get the sense from your posts that your basic position is: if the cops say it's true, then it's true.

Nite parachuting in Washington... SCARY..... You gotta die.. no one can survive that.... SCARY

[Robert99 37]

BruceSmith

Quote

"...Law Enforcement people have reportedly stated that Cooper knew just enough about parachuting to get himself killed...."

Robert, what do you think of Earl Cossey's initial assessment that Cooper made it, and in fact anyone with basic parachuting skills could have made a successful jump.

Also, Geoffrey Gray, in his memorial pieces on Coss after his death, says that Coss was going back to his original view after telling the world for 40 years that Cooper cratered.

Additionally, what's your take on the successful landing of all the copy cats who jumped?

1. Robb Heady
2. Richard LaPoint
3. Martin McNally
4. Richard McCoy

If Cooper didn't make it and these guys did, then how come? Why was Cooper different? What made Cooper unsuccessful? After all, McNally didn't even know how to put on a parachute.

Dumb luck? Bad luck? Unforeseen difficulties?

It begs the question: are the LE who say Cooper didn't make it lying, misinformed, spinning the story for an unknown agenda, or establishing their perspective on facts that are not public at this time?

Yes, Larry Carr said repeatedly that Cooper most likely tumbled hopelessly and died as a panicked no-pull. But what did he base that speculation upon? Cossey's assessment from 1972-2012? How come Larry never seemed to include other possibilities, such as those so ably presented by 377 in Portland in 2011?

I get the sense from your posts that your basic position is: if the cops say it's true, then it's true.

Bruce, There are a number of factors that must be considered in accessing the problems that Cooper would have encountered in the jump.

First the weather. The airliner was at 10,000 feet above sea level and also ABOVE an overcast (or an under cast if you prefer). In addition there were reported to be two or three cloud layers below the overcast including at least one that was described as "broken", which is close to being another solid layer. There is no information as to clouds above the airliner which would further complicate the problem.

Cooper could not have seen the ground to provide any information as to his body position during the free fall. That is, he could not stabilize and would have tumbled.

Adding to the tumbling problem is how he tied the money bag to himself. If he tied it on the side of his body, it would have created an asymmetrical type of tumbling which would have been even more difficult to recover from.

The wind chill factor during Cooper's time on the steps and first few seconds of free fall would be around 35 to 40 degrees BELOW zero. Cooper was only lightly dressed, even if he had on thermal underwear, and this low temperature would have definitely impacted him adversely.

Taking all of the above factors together, Cooper would have been thoroughly chilled even before he stepped off the stairs. He would have started tumbling immediately as he went through the very turbulent jet wash behind the airliner, he did not have any means to determine his body attitude to stop the tumbling, and things went downhill both figuratively and literally from that point. It is possible that he was completely disoriented, including inability to accurately estimate time passage, within 10-15 seconds after leaving the stairs.

In all probability, Cooper was on the ground and dead within 40-45 seconds after separating from the stairs.

One of the cable TV networks had a program several years ago on the military's HALO parachute training program in southwest Arizona. The program takes experienced military parachutists and teaches them to do delayed drops.

One particular jump in that program is illustrative of the above. It was a completely clear day, no clouds and plenty of sunshine. The trainees had already made a number of free fall jumps and this was their first one with a military belly pack. The student in question and an instructor jumped together. The student was unable to stabilize himself even with the instructor grabbing him to help him stabilize. The student tumbled so violently that I think the instructor got kicked in the head. Finally, the instructor had to back away from the guy and open his own chute. The student eventually did get a chute open and landed safely. But he was booted out of the program the same day. And remember that this jump was made under ideal conditions by a trained parachutist with free fall experience and assisted by an instructor. He just couldn't handle the change in aerodynamics from the added belly pack.

My conclusion that Cooper died in the jump is based on my own knowledge and experience in several branches of aviation including parachuting.

I think the LE people who agree with this know what they are talking about. There are plenty of LE people with sky-diving experience.

In my opinion, if Cooper had been wearing only a single emergency parachute with no money bag, etc., and with an automatic opener, he would probably have survived. As Farflung repeatedly pointed out, those things do get the job done.

To the best of my knowledge, the other jumpers you mentioned jumped under quite good weather conditions. And some of them had sky-diving experience.

I realize that there are plenty of sky-divers who feel they could have made the Cooper jump successfully using just an umbrella and while carrying a grand piano. Those claims are just beer talk.

Robert99