DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Sluggo:

I think you're operating under the myth that there was extensive searching. There obviously was by the Third Armored Cavalry up by Ariel. (4 months later on)

But FBI didn't really have manpower right? So the only help they had initially were police.

I think the police gave up focusing on it by 11/30/71..i.e. after just 5 days.

attached article.
(it also includes a photo of the note received in Reno but we all know that's bogus)

I suspect all that happened was the police drove around, checked out phoned in tips, and H. did the helicopter/plane overflights. Suspect no ground searches. I suspect they didn't search the Columbia.

[snowmman 3]

Isn't the biggest risk when hiding bodies, guns, dope, evidence is someone seeing you go to and fro to the hiding spot, or disturbing something that someone notices, or leaving some clue that makes people say "what the hell are all those muddy footprints about"

which is why people go places where people don't ordinarily go? If there are fresh graves, that usually means there are people there like every day that might notice something odd...(visitors, caretakers).

I can't see Cooper brainstorming about how great your cemetery plan would be, in the context of everything that would have to happen for that to work out.

Hell, a better plan, just looking at your map, is stuffing the chute back in the pack...loading in some rocks, and throwing it into a water-filled quarry pit.

But he's not going to be walking far to hide shit. If he has transportation: heck keep it with him and deposit elsewhere...the money will be bad enough evidence if the car is stopped.

I just can't see your scenario making sense.

[snowmman 3]

just noticed there's been a hijacking in progress the last
8 hours or so (google news).

maybe we shut up till it's over.

[377 20]

Sluggo,

Aren't the system generated transients in the steam age 727-100 pressurization system only going to be felt with a sealed fuselage? Ask Benson.

On graves...well maybe. I wouldn't have looked at it the way you do but it is the diversity of thought that often bears fruit on this forum. You do have the geocaching experience. I just lose stuff. I never find anything.

Ckret has ruined any chance of me sleeping well tonight. New clues/info about the money? Derived from Georger? How long must we wait? Pure torture for someone with ADD. I want it yesterday.

And now the landing gear. You are spot on about a big increase in fuel burn. Extra drag and low altitude flight will drain those Jet A tanks FAST. Turbines are very thirsty at low altitudes which is why most airline flights are above 30,000 ft. Pacific Express used to be limited to 25,000 ft in their BAC 111s on the SF to LA run in the 1970s because they didn't have drop down O2 masks. They burned a lot more than comparable planes flying 10,000 ft higher.

I don't know why Cooper asked for gear down. He either knew a lot or very little. If he knew a lot then your analysis might have been what he was thinking too. If he knew a little, then he might have thought flaps will slow us down and gear will slow us down even more. I don't give him as much credit for intellect as you might. If he were that sharp he would have had a VHF radio to monitor the critical comms between the crew and the outside world, especially on the ground where and ambush could have been in the making.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 3]

Quote

If N467US had a Pneumatic Control System, what would the “Cabin Alt Delta” gauge read when unpressurized and flying straight and level at 10,000 ft. MSL? (Guru312? 377? Quade? Mr.Nuke? or anybody else with aviation experience?)

All pressurized aircraft are limited by the difference the pressure vessel (the aircraft) can withstand between the pressure inside and the pressure outside the aircraft.

For instance, if the doors were open on the ground, there would be absolutely no difference. If the plane was flying at 30,000 ft and the cabin was pressurized to 8,000 ft (which is sort of typical today), then the difference would be 22,000 ft. A little over 1/2 an atmosphere.

If the airplane is straight, level and the door is open at 10,000 there would be a very slight difference as long as nothing significant changed. The aft stairs flopping around or even DB Cooper himself bouncing a bit on them would (I would think) be a noticeable difference. Not huge, but noticeable.

Drive down the street at 80 mpg with a window rolled down and then roll it up quickly. You -may- (depending on the car in question) get "about" the same feeling as the window closes. The effect is noticeable in my car, your milage may vary.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Drive down the street at 80 mpg...

I want -your- car!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[georger 197]

I think it fed the public consciousness of "meticulously planned". Just like the idea that it was the first US extortion attempt. (It wasn't).

I also noticed that an estimated bailout time of 8:13 was already reported on 11/26/71...with a quote saying it was based on slight changes in altitude from the flight recorder. (edit) don't know if this was really the oscillations, or not. This made them concentrate search around Woodland.

REPLY> I wonder how this squares with Tosaw's
account for Soderlind? The two sources for 8:13
would have agreed( flight recorder & Soderlind radio
copy/map mark).

What was our previous time stamp for "nose up and trim" (Scott said he did), at oscillations or bump?
I will try and find this. But, if my memory serves this was also at ~8:12 -8:13.

Im glad you posted this Snowmman. Thanks.

G

[quade 3]

Quote

Quote

Drive down the street at 80 mpg...

I want -your- car!

ltdiver

Obviously a typo. Notice where the "G" and "H" keys are on your keyboard.

As for you wanting my car . . . no way! The right seat is the best you're ever going to do and you've already done that! We've been over this Fast thing before haven't we?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 197]

Quote

All,

I was just looking at the text I posted above. Look at this:


Pneumatic Control System

It is a little long in the tooth now, but it is still around and in use on a great number of aircraft, mostly 100's. Affectionately know
as steam driven". There are two control panels, again at the flight engineers panel. One for automatic control and one for manual mode. You set these by markings on the instrument and it is then entirely controlled by sensed pressures and venturi's.

It's basic, but robust, though pressure bumps are quite a common feature of this system.


Hmmmmmmm! Odd term (“pressure bump”).

Thanks,
Sluggo_Monster

QUESTION: Just to be clear, what are we defining
"cabin" as? (it has to be the whole inside cavity of the aircraft in this case, correct?). They were going
unpressurised.

8:13.14
305: Getting some oscillations in the cabin. Mustbe doing something with the air stairs.
MSP: Roger
[Parms: 10kft 15*flap gear/wheels down]


G

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Drive down the street at 80 mpg...

I want -your- car!

ltdiver

Obviously a typo. Notice where the "G" and "H" keys are on your keyboard.

As for you wanting my car . . . no way! The right seat is the best you're ever going to do and you've already done that! We've been over this Fast thing before haven't we?

Yeah, I know...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I think it fed the public consciousness of "meticulously planned". Just like the idea that it was the first US extortion attempt. (It wasn't).

I also noticed that an estimated bailout time of 8:13 was already reported on 11/26/71...with a quote saying it was based on slight changes in altitude from the flight recorder. (edit) don't know if this was really the oscillations, or not. This made them concentrate search around Woodland.

REPLY> I wonder how this squares with Tosaw's
account for Soderlind? The two sources for 8:13
would have agreed( flight recorder & Soderlind radio
copy/map mark).

What was our previous time stamp for "nose up and trim" (Scott said he did), at oscillations or bump?
I will try and find this. But, if my memory serves this was also at ~8:12 -8:13.

Im glad you posted this Snowmman. Thanks.

G

CAVEAT: I'm giving Tosaw's account here. It seems a little out of sync with the transcripts we've already digested. Tosaw got a lot from Soderlind (evidently) ...so maybe is Soderlind's account? Tosaw may have gotten 8:13 from the newspapers...but where did he get all the drop test info? I would think he consistently got both bits of info from Soderlind.

Okay I'm checking the book.
New fact: page 56 Soderlind flew N467US on the flight with the drop test (with Manning, Anderson and the two guys on the stairs). They took off from SeaTac...They used the US Navy bombing range on the WA coast at Hoquiam. The wooden box was filled with sand. Total 220 lbs.

They mention the 8:13 time when describing the test drop re-enactment. Manning, the FBI guy that headed up the search, was on the flight also.

Here's what's critical. I'll copy the paragraph exactly:
page 57

The pilot in the plane following saw the ladder spring upwards, almost touching the fuselage - like a diving board it sprang up, almost back to its closed position. Soderlind and Manning felt the sudden burst of pressure against their ears and the gauges verified the sudden burst of pressure. It was exactly the same experience reported by the hijacked crew at 8:13


So as Ckret says, it sounds like the mistake is that the flight test confirmed the pressure bump, and they assumed that was the oscillations reported by the crew. But the oscillations were reported before 8:13?
So did the crew really report the bump at 8:13?
I guess it's kind of fuzzy...we've been thru this all before, in deciphering the transcripts.

It seems like it was all because they thought the stairs were open at 8:04. As we've discussed, they probably weren't? Tosaw reports Cooper's last communication saying everything's ok at (edit) between 8:04 and 8:10 which may have fed a belief that the stairs were fully open before the event at 8:13

(edit) in re-reading Tosaw doesn't give the exact time of Cooper's last communication. seems to be between 8:04 and 8:10 (edit) A 3rd re-read tells me the crew initiated their communication attempts after the 8:04 events. It took a while to get a response. So this would square with the 8:05 "last comm" reports we have?...

They repeated the test a 2nd time and got the same result.

So here's what's interesting.

Someone immediately, by 11/26/71 told newspapers "jump at 8:13"
and the work the FBI did later, was just used to say "yes we were right"...it had no effect on their jump time estimate? (by Mar '72 the 8:13 seems to have been moved up slightly..maybe based on transcript analysis)

on page 35 is where tosaw talks about the last communication with Cooper and that before that at 8:04 the crew felt a slight movement, with the sound of the engines being louder, and a panel lite, which made them think Cooper had finally gotten the stairs open.

on page 35, is where Tosaw says the crew felt the burst of pressure in their ears at 8:13, and Rataczak says "there he goes"

But then he also says "and they all saw the needles reacting on the pressure gauges"


At 8:10, Tosaw says "outside the plane it was 22 deg. The wind was from the southwest at 45 mph and the weather bureau reported on the ground it was 40 deg. with southwest winds at 15 mph"

After the pressure bump, Tosaw says the flaps were put back to 15 degrees (from 30) and speed went back up to 195 mph. Remember he said 167 mph at 30 degrees.

[quade 3]

Quote

QUESTION: Just to be clear, what are we defining
"cabin" as? (it has to be the whole inside cavity of the aircraft in this case, correct?). They were going
unpressurised.

Cabin would refer to the inside of the aircraft the passengers and crew occupy. There are sections "inside" the aircraft that are not occupied and "outside" of the cabin pressurization system.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[snowmman 3]

Just noticed this:

"Inside the 727 there were cameras trained on the needles of the pressure gauges. Soderlind brought the plane to the same altitude and speed of the hijacked plane at the 8:13 time"

If Ckret could find those photographs, the plane folk here might have some good data...since we've been discussing those gauges.

Pictures of them during the drop test would be cool.

I also note that Soderlind and Manning are referenced as feeling the pressure bump in their ears. But they weren't on 305. It doesn't say Anderson felt it.

It'd be interesting to read the report that quotes what Anderson said. I'm not even sure he was on the flight. It says Soderlind "was able to obtain the services of the same flight engineer, Harold Anderson"

I think they may have made up their interpretation of the pressure bump? We really need the full report of the test drop.

[snowmman 3]

Georger asked this question.

Ckret previously told us
"Tina told Cooper that they may need oxygen flying at 10,000 feet and she started to tell him where the supplemental tanks could be found. Cooper stated, "I know where they are. "

What's interesting, is that Tosaw provides more detail on this exchange. But as Ckret has implied before, maybe Tosaw is trying to fill in the blanks. But the sentence choices seem to imply additional information.

But the agents had another reason for believing that Cooper had taken the same flight before (ed. besides the Tacoma comment). Tina had said at the debriefing in Reno that while they were circling above Seattle, the subject of the overhead compartment came up. She told Cooper that the compartment directly over their heads was filled with oxygen bottles, and he replied, "Yes, I know." Since not every 727 carried oxygen bottles in that same compartment and since no one had seen him open it and look inside, Tina concluded that he must have found out about it prior to that flight"

Goes on to suggest he probably had boarded the flight before, and aborted the hijack when he couldn't get the seating he wanted. Just speculation.

Maybe Cooper just said "Yes I know" to everything.

[snowmman 3]

from my prior post: "After the pressure bump, Tosaw says the flaps were put back to 15 degrees (from 30) and speed went back up to 195 mph. Remember he said 167 mph at 30 degrees."
remember the 30 degree flaps are no longer a question. Confirmed by the 2nd FBI transcript released. But we don't know the time of the 30->15 transition.

Note this flap transition might be occurring right around the point where Sluggo argued that there was a lot going on in the cockpit in changing frequencies around the BTG vortac.

The late, big turn is at 20:14 or 20:15, depending on whether you think there is the minute error in the flight path map we have.

Wondering if this turn coincided with the 30 to 15 flap adjustment time.

[georger 197]

Quote

377:
Current policy seems to be that tapes around hijacks are only required by the FAA to be retained for 3 years. It does say a release is required though after 3 years to return tapes to service. Not sure what policy was in play in 1971...maybe none? see page 89 of http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/at_orders/media/Basic7210.3V.pdf

It mentions "System Safety and Procedures" as an FAA group to contact for the release? they might be the right contact for historical hijack tapes? Not sure if that's a real group though.

Also: A great document for FAA history is
the FAA Historical Chronology 1926-1996.
http://www.faa.gov/about/media/b-chron.pdf

It has good data on what type of hijacking occured when. (download it (big) and search using "hijacking" in adobe reader)
Interestingly it perpetuates the myth that Cooper was the first in a series of extortion hijacks (he wasn't)
(page 162).

One interesting thing I found had to do with various agreements over time, as to who has jurisdiction depending on where the plane is during a hijacking (ground, air etc). It varies between pilot, FAA and FBI.

During the time of the Cooper hijack, the existing agreement was that FBI had jurisdication while the plane was on the ground, with pilot at all other times, although FAA recommendations to him took precedence.

This changed in '74, to give the FAA jurisdiction from the time the doors closed, to the first door open for disembarking. They did agree that all parties would work together.

An agreement in Dec. '71 gave the pilot the responsibility for signaling whether the plane should be disabled or stormed.

So Cooper's hijack was during a period where they had not yet fully settled on procedural details of handling a hijack. (page 152)

I've seen some hijack reports where the hijacker passed the note before the plane took off. FBI would have jurisdiction at that time, so while I initially thought it would be a good plan (get chutes/money as soon as possible)...it's obviously a bad plan because the FBI get to decide what to do...So Cooper's plan of staying in the air until everything's ready on the ground, was really a great idea.

REPLY: Great post! This agrees with comments made by people I know (retirees) who worked for Boeing, NWA, etc. at the time. The Cooper hijacking was a "wake up" call. Posts have been made about this before. A person I know refered to this as the first "tactical" hijacking. I am sure we would disagree
about this, but it is a word I havd heard over the
years many times regarding this hijacking. Donald
Nyrop played a large role in how these events unfolded.

G.

[snowmman 3]

(attached)

"We permit no hippies in the bureau. I can guarantee that."
...
"Mr. Chairman, I have a philosophy. You are honored by your friends and you are distinguished by your enemies. I have been very distinguished"
...
While Hoover was remarking about a drop in campus turmoil, Rooney asked if any gay activists were allowed in the FBI.
Hoover replied: "We don't allow any types of activists in the FBI, gay or other wise"

Funny. Makes me think Cooper really didn't have to be all that bright to evade the FBI in '71? When we characterize the hunter and the hunted in '71, I think sometimes we don't really have a good feel for the realities of what was going on in the FBI in '71 (I think only '71 thru '72 really mattered for the Cooper search).

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Hopefully (if everything goes right on my end) in several weeks we should have some interesting discoveries as it relates to the money thanks to Georger.

wow...I've been looking at the little crumbs georger gave about his "client" that talked about project skyhook and parachuting.

Any of you whackos out there that track UFOs as well as JFK assassination plots should have had light bulbs going off: WS-119L WS-461L
Finally: we have a Roswell connection on this thread!

The weird thing, is the georger mixed up a lot of things that don't seem to go together...like the recovery by plane. As far as I can tell, those recoveries were always unmanned payloads.

Now if georger was talking to people who were in the pre-astronaut program, parachuting from the balloons derived from Project Skyhook. (the camera recon stuff)...then it's probably a pretty short list of names for the possible client. It ain't Attinger.

It probably was connected to Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio?

Possible names
George Post
Harry Collins

But that all was in late '50s...so georger probably was just looking at someone's resume that included this stuff from the late '50s?

Or maybe georger was just bullshitting us?

The book "The Pre-Astronauts" has a lot of pages searchable on Google.

http://books.google.com/books?id=1QS38bu9iTwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+Pre-Astronauts%22&sig=ACfU3U3H61sTQgFq8V288U_kS5Ud0dpOhg

REPLY: The God's truth is I dont even remember
the guy's name or where he came from. At the time
DB Cooper was the last thing on my mind. Even
when he started his schpeil it was his demeanor
that had me most attentive, along with his words.
I thought the man was going to have an episode
so I got an orderly in to stand by. New Mexico did
come up, but not Rosewell (per se). The man's
story fit a pattern. That is what concerned me.
(His thinking process) So far as I could tell his references to DB Cooper were meant to either impress me or used as a device for establishing
a common reference (item in recent news everyone
would know about). It was his sincerity that got
through to me and his references to psychological
traits in high risk takers he had worked with for
many years. I have never tried to make any more
or less of the event (and what the man said) than
that. (Until this forum I had not thought about it in
years. And every word I wrote is true.)

Confidentiality would preclude me from giving names
or dates etc in this matter, in any event. Anyone
who knows me learns very quickly I am very strict in that regard.

Once again, we have all had lives. Every person here
has done many diferent (sometimes diverse) things in life. We all could supply anecdotes from our lives.

In the case of my client, I always wondered how
accurate his descriptions were (of high risk occupations). I have found some agreement with things he said and some strong disagreemnt with
his generalisations. In the end, I felt he was speaking for himself and perhaps even doing some wishful thinking and perhaps even projecting to
DB Cooper as representing a freedom my client
had always lacked in his own life? At some level
most of us dream to fly and be free of the world's
bonds ... and triumph in something.

He never mentioned UFO's once.

[georger 197]

Quote

Sluggo,

Aren't the system generated transients in the steam age 727-100 pressurization system only going to be felt with a sealed fuselage? Ask Benson.

On graves...well maybe. I wouldn't have looked at it the way you do but it is the diversity of thought that often bears fruit on this forum. You do have the geocaching experience. I just lose stuff. I never find anything.

Ckret has ruined any chance of me sleeping well tonight. New clues/info about the money? Derived from Georger? How long must we wait? Pure torture for someone with ADD. I want it yesterday.


REPLY> NOW do you see why I asked for patience?
My cards are always on the table (if there is a table!).
Patience My Son. (Read Jeremiah espec the part
about "It is good to wait for the salvation of ...).
I hear you laughing - -

I cant/wont say any more. Sorry.

• Quote

[georger 197]

Quote

Sluggo,

Aren't the system generated transients in the steam age 727-100 pressurization system only going to be felt with a sealed fuselage? Ask Benson.

On graves...well maybe. I wouldn't have looked at it the way you do but it is the diversity of thought that often bears fruit on this forum. You do have the geocaching experience. I just lose stuff. I never find anything.

Ckret has ruined any chance of me sleeping well tonight. New clues/info about the money? Derived from Georger? How long must we wait? Pure torture for someone with ADD. I want it yesterday.

And now the landing gear. You are spot on about a big increase in fuel burn. Extra drag and low altitude flight will drain those Jet A tanks FAST. Turbines are very thirsty at low altitudes which is why most airline flights are above 30,000 ft. Pacific Express used to be limited to 25,000 ft in their BAC 111s on the SF to LA run in the 1970s because they didn't have drop down O2 masks. They burned a lot more than comparable planes flying 10,000 ft higher.

I don't know why Cooper asked for gear down. He either knew a lot or very little. If he knew a lot then your analysis might have been what he was thinking too. If he knew a little, then he might have thought flaps will slow us down and gear will slow us down even more. I don't give him as much credit for intellect as you might. If he were that sharp he would have had a VHF radio to monitor the critical comms between the crew and the outside world, especially on the ground where and ambush could have been in the making.

377

REPLY: Two things come to mind. He may have been trying to apply principles from some aircraft
he knew, to the 727 he was on.

How does wheels down affect parachuting out the back at 10000 ft?

High fuel consumption, hi drag, engines straining,
all sounds exactly like what the witness at (Heisson?) said she heard, except her report was
of a low passenger jet?


Just a reminder: the Bohan report is still hanging.

Guess I will go poke at graves! Just what I needed.

G

[georger 197]

Hopefully (if everything goes right on my end) in several weeks we should have some interesting discoveries as it relates to the money thanks to Georger.

[377 20]

Wow!!!!! Talk about resources...


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

Wow! You guys were busy last night.

Here are my comments/responses to all this traffic.

snowmman,

Quote

I think you're operating under the myth that there was extensive searching. There obviously was by the Third Armored Cavalry up by Ariel. (4 months later on)

No, the statement has nothing to do with who did the search, or when the search was done (up to about 8 months to 1 year). A fresh grave is a fresh grave (by my estimation, and I’m pulling this right out of my a**) for about a year. The soil in that area is varied, no clay, but just about everything else from sand to what I call “Moon Dust” (volcanic ash). There is one place (that I can think of) that you could dig using rudimentary tools (a flat rock, a broken limb, etc.). That would be in a fresh grave. I'm still looking at the things that might have been missed. I’ll let others talk about probabilities, etc. That’s why I asked you and georger to get involved. C’mon humor me, I’m old, weak, and losing my memory.



377,

Quote

If he were that sharp he would have had a VHF radio to monitor the critical comms between the crew and the outside world, especially on the ground where and ambush could have been in the making.

And what makes you think he didn’t? What was he doing in the lavatory? Why did he not want Tina to see him? As a parallel to the “Negative Hypothesis” discussion; “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”


georger,

Quote

with a quote saying it was based on slight changes in altitude from the flight recorder.

I have often wondered if this was a typo or maybe a mis-interpretation of an interview. The word “altitude” makes a whole lot less sense (to me) than the word “attitude.” I defer to quade or anyone who has flown big jets. I don’t see a jumper changing the altitude much (if at all), but I can see the A/C needing re-trimmed after someone left the A/C at a large moment arm from the center of gravity datum (or Center of Lift moment arm). Anybody out there have weight and balance experience with a 727?


snowmman,

Quote

Here's what's critical. I'll copy the paragraph exactly:
page 57

The pilot in the plane following saw the ladder spring upwards, almost touching the fuselage - like a diving board it sprang up, almost back to its closed position. Soderlind and Manning felt the sudden burst of pressure against their ears and the gauges verified the sudden burst of pressure. It was exactly the same experience reported by the hijacked crew at 8:13

Here’s something interesting. In the interview I quoted yesterday Rataczak goes on to say:
"the stairs immediately reacted by coming abruptly closed, and we could feel a huge pressure bump in our ears [Moving both hands near his ears as if to block them] So, I quickly got on to the Air Traffic Control Center and said; ‘I think our friend just took leave of us.’”

Anyone seen that reference in the transcripts? Scott (or someone) said something similar as they were landing at RNO. Transcript page 233 @ around 23:13 PST the pilot uses similar language; “…Be advised that our passenger took leave of us somewhere between here and Seattle…”

So years later, Rataczak says he notified ATCC at around 20:13 that the HJ was gone, he also talks as if he knew what caused the pressure bump. But on November 24th, 1971, he only knew the HJ left somewhere between SEA and RNO.

I guess my point is that all these published accounts are at best “un-informative” and at worst “confusing and obstructive.”


C K R E T ,

Snowmman posted:

Quote

Just noticed this:
"Inside the 727 there were cameras trained on the needles of the pressure gauges. Soderlind brought the plane to the same altitude and speed of the hijacked plane at the 8:13 time"
If Ckret could find those photographs, the plane folk here might have some good data...since we've been discussing those gauges.
Pictures of them during the drop test would be cool.
I also note that Soderlind and Manning are referenced as feeling the pressure bump in their ears. But they weren't on 305. It doesn't say Anderson felt it.
It'd be interesting to read the report that quotes what Anderson said. I'm not even sure he was on the flight. It says Soderlind "was able to obtain the services of the same flight engineer, Harold Anderson"
I think they may have made up their interpretation of the pressure bump? We really need the full report of the test drop.

What’s the chance of us getting our hands on some of this “test-drop” material?



snowmman,

Quote

Goes on to suggest he probably had boarded the flight before, and aborted the hijack when he couldn't get the seating he wanted. Just speculation.

The flight would have been “Flight 305” each day, but the A/C would not have necessarily been N467US.

Also, from Benson:
“There are two fixed oxygen systems, one for the cockpit and one for the cabin. In addition there may be up to five portable oxygen bottles. One in the cockpit and four located throughout the cabin.”

I don’t know if throughout means “equally distributed randomly” or “equally distributed in fixed locations” I would go with fixed locations and the same location aircraft to aircraft (I don’t think you would want the stews searching for them in an emergency.)


Those are my opinions, yours may vary.

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Maybe Cooper just said "Yes I know" to everything.

Good observation.. the "yes I know" response is very common in children of a certain age, but also of adults who don't like to be perceived as knowing less than they think they are supposed to.

Then again, maybe he just did know it all... which would suggest a recce of some sort. Still, when you point out, and respond:

Quote

Since not every 727 carried oxygen bottles in that same compartment and since no one had seen him open it and look inside, Tina concluded that he must have found out about it prior to that flight"

Goes on to suggest he probably had boarded the flight before, and aborted the hijack when he couldn't get the seating he wanted.

I'm not quite sure how that conclusion follows (do I read right that it was Tosaw's conclusion, not yours) - or have I missed something along the way that indicated he wanted to be sitting at the oxygen? (he had after all asked for the plane to be flown depressurized which should preclude need for oxygen)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 20]

Quote

Some time ago, a panel was assembled and
recommended to Larry Carr with the idea of examining the money.

The panel consists of recognised experts in
different areas of forensics and analysis, who will examine the money or specimens from the money cache. The analyses will be conducted in laboratory
environments equiped with the latest in technology,
including chemical, spectroscopic, and even electron
microscopy (if necessary).

Wish Richard Feynman were still alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

No particular relevant expertise on this matter, but he'd have livened the process up and got a lot of publicity.

They say "money talks". Hope it speaks to us here, perhaps translated by a mass spectrometer or some other analytical instrument. Can't wait for the results to be released.

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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.