DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman,

I still think there is a story there and it involves Duane having something that he could trade. What was it?

377

There could be a story. I'm not sure why "trade" comes up though. Are there typical stories of "trades"..examples? I would think "trades" would be rare....in terms of the conspiracy sort of "information" trade. Now in terms of other "goodwill" maybe.

A more likely thing would be some kind of family pull or something? Or a problem with the conviction to start with?. Duane's sentence was light to start with in MO for that one...just 4 years. Commuted to 2 years.
(edit) Even though the crime was "Grand Stealing" I'm wondering if it was something trivial cause of the light sentence.

I'm curious about how Duane's family seemed to have disowned him. I wonder how much "pull" they might have had or standing in the community. Maybe none.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Snowmman,

I still think there is a story there and it involves Duane having something that he could trade. What was it?

377

There could be a story. I'm not sure why "trade" comes up though. Are there typical stories of "trades"..examples? I would think "trades" would be rare....in terms of the conspiracy sort of "information" trade. Now in terms of other "goodwill" maybe.

Wasn't there a suggestion at one stage that some of the commutations happened because prisoners did exactly trade information - about more important criminals/crimes? (the unkind might call this snitching)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Hearnes was a commutation machine!
found some data on Hearnes!
4000 commutations '69-'73 Duane was just part of the masses? Caveat: Duane was '68. assuming similar rates then.

Democrats released thousands of prisoners Records show that other...
Published on Oct. 7, 1998, Page C1, The Kansas City Star
Hearnes approved an estimated 4000 commutations from 1969 to 1973, ... Before the new law took effect, Missouri prisoners were routinely released through ...

[377 20]

No big conspiracy theory intended. By "trade" I meant information necessary for a prosecution. Prisoners overhear stuff that would be very useful. Normally they keep their mouths shut because snitching can be fatal. If they are willing to risk it, that information can sometimes be traded for sentence reductions. It doesn't mean Duane was a major player in anything. He may have just overheard some valuable info.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

(edit) scroll down to what I bolded
What we missed, was that MO was special back then.
(edit) parole board apparently didn't have full powers till '79? Our thinking about MO commutations during that period was myth, basically. MO was different.

The Kansas City Star
1998-10-07
Section: METROPOLITAN
Edition: METROPOLITAN
Page: C1

Democrats released thousands of prisoners Records show that other governors acted much like Kit Bond.
WILL SENTELL

STEVE KRASKE Staff Writers

JEFFERSON CITY - While Republican Kit Bond is under fire from his Democratic opponent for commuting the sentences of thousands of Missouri prisoners when Bond was governor, documents on Tuesday showed that Democratic governors before and after Bond had similar records. However, unlike in Bond's case, there were no immediate charges Tuesday that any prisoners released by Democratic governors later wound up on death row.

Bond, who is seeking a third term in the U.S. Senate, was criticized Monday by Democrat Jay Nixon for commuting the sentences of nine inmates who committed murders after their releases and got the death penalty. Three of those inmates have since been executed.

Nixon's accusations were the latest controversy in a heated race, and some analysts question whether his efforts will affect the election outcome.

Nixon, Missouri's attorney general, said his latest salvo shows Bond is soft on crime. Otherwise, Bond wouldn't have commuted thousands of sentences in his two terms as governor, from 1973 to 1977 and from 1981 to 1985, Nixon said. State records for a two-year period show Bond commuted 2,000 sentences, according to Nixon's camp.

But records show Democrats Joseph Teasdale and Warren Hearnes also routinely signed prison commutations while they were in office.

Hearnes approved an estimated 4,000 commutations from 1969 to 1973, the last of his two terms as governor.

Teasdale succeeded Bond's first term and served from 1977 to 1981. While state records are incomplete, they show Teasdale approved about 3,800 inmate commutations in his term.

David Israelite, Bond's campaign manager, said it is significant that two Democrats signed large numbers of commutations, which are documents signed by the governor that allow prisoners to go free without supervision.

``Jay Nixon knew that the commutation process was something that all governors used, based on the advice of the board of parole, on a regular basis,'' Israelite said.

``The fact that the Democratic governor before and after Governor Bond used this process speaks volumes to Jay Nixon's mistruths,'' he said.

Chuck Hatfield, Nixon's campaign manager, downplayed the Teasdale and Hearnes commutations.

``Warren Hearnes and Joe Teasdale are not running TV commercials saying they have zero tolerance for crime,'' Hatfield said.

``Kit Bond had the option to deny any single commutation,'' he said. ``Just because some other governor may have done it certainly doesn't excuse the decisions he made. '' Commutations dropped drastically under Bond's two successors, Republican John Ashcroft and Democrat Mel Carnahan, the current governor. Ashcroft commuted two sentences, Carnahan four, officials said.

The drastic drop in commutations by governors of both parties stems from a change in state law in the late 1970s, said Gail Hughes, chief administrative officer for the state Board of Probation and Parole from 1965 to 1985.

Before the new law took effect, Missouri prisoners were routinely released through the commutation process after they served a certain percentage of their sentence, said Hughes.

Missouri lawmakers approved a new criminal code that took effect in 1979. It gave the parole board new authority to parole prisoners with some supervision, and essentially replaced the commutation process that had routinely involved the governor, Hughes said.

Dick Moore, a Republican who served on the parole board from 1974 to 1985, also said the new law triggered the huge drop in commutations.

``That (commutations) was the ordinary procedure back when Bond was in his first term,'' Moore said. ``That was how they exited the system, through commutation. The law changed. '' Nixon contends Bond should be held accountable for killings committed by inmates whose sentences he commuted.

Nixon campaign officials said Tuesday that one of the inmates freed by Bond, Winford Lavern Stokes, killed two more persons after his sentence was commuted but before his original sentence would have ended.

On Monday, Teasdale disputed arguments that governors should be held accountable for crimes committed by prisoners they free.

Hearnes said Tuesday that he generally followed recommendations of parole officials in approving most commutations, except in cases of statutory rape.

``I just didn't want to take a chance on them,'' Hearnes said.

The Nixon camp hopes that the revelations about Bond's record on dangerous inmates will turn the tide of the race. Polls conducted for media outlets last month showed Bond held leads ranging from 16 to 23 points, and with President Clinton's troubles dominating the news lately, it has been difficult for Nixon to advance.

Some political analysts think the race is all but over. Last week, the Bond campaign touted an article in the Cook Political Report, a Washington newsletter. The newsletter said, ``While Bond has not quite put this race away yet, he is very close. '' With less than a month to go before Election Day, Nixon clearly needs a major boost to get back into the race.

The Democrat hopes the commutation story will prove to be exactly that. His campaign spent weeks researching the issue and plans a major television ad campaign to further publicize its findings.

The first 30-second spot has begun airing in outstate Missouri and could appear on Kansas City stations as soon as today. The ad's theme: Bond's weak record on crime.

``Kit Bond is so soft on crime, he is the only Republican the Missouri deputies rejected,'' an announcer tells viewers, referring to 1998 endorsements by the Missouri Deputy Sheriffs Association.

Bond responded Tuesday by releasing a list of county sheriffs and prosecutors who have endorsed him.

``Senator Bond has put his experience to work to get things done for law enforcement in Missouri,'' a media statement said.

How effective Nixon's blitz will be remains to be seen. One Missouri political scientist predicted that Nixon's latest campaign would have little effect.

Jim Davis, of Washington University in St. Louis, called the attacks ``old news'' because they are based on events of many years ago.

``I take it as an act of desperation as opposed to something that really will pull the race out for Nixon,'' he said. ``I don't think it's a home run. ''

[snowmman 3]

Quote

No big conspiracy theory intended. By "trade" I meant information necessary for a prosecution. Prisoners overhear stuff that would be very useful. Normally they keep their mouths shut because snitching can be fatal. If they are willing to risk it, that information can sometimes be traded for sentence reductions. It doesn't mean Duane was a major player in anything. He may have just overheard some valuable info.

377

No. The article I just posted above I think answers the question. The laws were different in MO then. There was a parole board, but evidently not full powers until '79? or something like that. (see above). See, we were thinking we understood MO. We didn't.

Note to Jo: if this doesn't make you realize you were connecting dots that didn't exist, I don't know what will. You have to read the above and agree: Duane's commutation meant nothing. It was like parole.

377 will have to concur, eventually. (I think?)

[377 20]

Damn Snow, you are good! You may have nailed this commutation door shut. Myth busters at work.

Can you focus your research laser on the civil ATC radar tapes (not SAGE) that tracked the Cooper flight? We know that Cooper would have briefly shown up as a separate echo as he departed the 727. The info we had from controllers using similar vintage radar said they could paint (and accurately count) individual exiting jumpers up to at least 60 miles away.

These tapes are routinely "frozen" if an incident occurs e.g. crash, declared emergency etc.

What happened to them? Were they ever examined for a Cooper echo? Some ATC folks have no idea that their radar can paint jumpers and may not have thought to look.

Speculating about whether Duane was Cooper is fun, but not very productive. Finding Cooper's exit echo would tell us a lot about where he might have landed and his chances for survival. It might also help solve the mystery of the Tena bar money transport scenario.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 20]

Quote

Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all.

Orange,

You completely missed the second level conspiracy explanation. To cover up the significance of Duane's 1968 commutation, the MO govt in the very next year dramatically ramped up commutation volume thus effectively diminishing or even nullifying their significance. A guy in a black helicopter told me so.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all.

Orange,

You completely missed the second level conspiracy explanation. To cover up the significance of Duane's 1968 commutation, the MO govt in the very next year dramatically ramped up commutation volume thus effectively diminishing or even nullifying their significance. A guy in a black helicopter told me so.

377

the really funny thing is... that exact "explanation" had crossed my mind! (albeit sans guy from black helicopter)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all.

Orange,

You completely missed the second level conspiracy explanation. To cover up the significance of Duane's 1968 commutation, the MO govt in the very next year dramatically ramped up commutation volume thus effectively diminishing or even nullifying their significance. A guy in a black helicopter told me so.

377

the really funny thing is... that exact "explanation" had crossed my mind! (albeit sans guy from black helicopter)

heh!

I was actually astounded when I found the article. I looked again when 377 said the state numbers I quoted before were too low. So good for 377 to be skeptical at first.

The surprising thing was how MO was apparently unique during the period we were interested in, and how they had a law change in '79. (I'm guessing about other states, but it doesn't really matter what other states were doing, except how it affected our bias...)

Just totally unpredictable. Shows how random coincidences can easily occur and without knowing the full picture, be judged based on present information/bias, rather than the information from the period/region.

The sheer number may also explain why records on Duane were lost.

The article was written by reporters in a hot political race evidently. Someone trying to tar Republicans (or challenge an assertion?) for being soft on crime historically. The reporters were trying to show how that was an unfair tar, that there was a good reason for it. So the data is probably good...during a gubernatorial race, reporters are going to try to be accurate. (relatively modern, 1998) Also they noted that the governor's office couldn't find some records.

So I suspect it's not just Duane's records that were lost, but others also.

But as everyone sees, the key thing was that commutations were given as part of the parole process.

So it's much easier to understand how Duane would be released after serving half his sentence.

[377 20]

Snow,

You show that new blood is a good idea. I assumed from many years of experience in criminal law that I KNEW all I needed to know about state commutations. Nobody was going to tell me that Duane's commutation might be routine. Then you come along and tip over my smug apple cart. That is GOOD Snow. Bring it on. Assume nothing.

I think non jumpers might, from time to time, bring valuable new ideas about the Cooper jump into this forum. There is a danger in "experts" assuming that they know it all and scoffing at the idea that outsiders can contribute anything in their area of expertise.

I really hope you will look into those ATC radar tapes and what happened to them. I know you don't take orders on your research topics, but that one has so much potential value. I researched the hell out of SAGE and you found important stuff that somehow eluded me. Those are the skills I'd love to see applied to the civil radar angle.

Have a great weekend.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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Quote

Note to Jo: if this doesn't make you realize you were connecting dots that didn't exist, I don't know what will. You have to read the above and agree: Duane's commutation meant nothing. It was like parole.

Snowmman that was some decent searching, BUT remember that the dots connected without the Commutation - that sufaced a few months ago in this forum - it was NOT me connecting the dots - the forum chases theories also - that is how a lot of conclusion are made pro or con.

did not rely on that Commutation and remember I didn't even know what it meant until this forum - spelled it out for me. The Commutation is one dot you cannot put on me.

You guys have to take credit for that one! Just follow the dots ..................................................Gottcha!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

No big conspiracy theory intended. By "trade" I meant information necessary for a prosecution. Prisoners overhear stuff that would be very useful. Normally they keep their mouths shut because snitching can be fatal. If they are willing to risk it, that information can sometimes be traded for sentence reductions. It doesn't mean Duane was a major player in anything. He may have just overheard some valuable info.

377

No. The article I just posted above I think answers the question. The laws were different in MO then. There was a parole board, but evidently not full powers until '79? or something like that. (see above). See, we were thinking we understood MO. We didn't.

Note to Jo: if this doesn't make you realize you were connecting dots that didn't exist, I don't know what will. You have to read the above and agree: Duane's commutation meant nothing. It was like parole.

377 will have to concur, eventually. (I think?)

REPLY: MO has always been a poor State, economically. Sometimes commutations have an
economic motivation, and then they let the small
fish go. It's expensive to run prisons.

[georger 197]

Quote

Damn Snow, you are good! You may have nailed this commutation door shut. Myth busters at work.

Can you focus your research laser on the civil ATC radar tapes (not SAGE) that tracked the Cooper flight? We know that Cooper would have briefly shown up as a separate echo as he departed the 727. The info we had from controllers using similar vintage radar said they could paint (and accurately count) individual exiting jumpers up to at least 60 miles away.

These tapes are routinely "frozen" if an incident occurs e.g. crash, declared emergency etc.

What happened to them? Were they ever examined for a Cooper echo? Some ATC folks have no idea that their radar can paint jumpers and may not have thought to look.

Speculating about whether Duane was Cooper is fun, but not very productive. Finding Cooper's exit echo would tell us a lot about where he might have landed and his chances for survival. It might also help solve the mystery of the Tena bar money transport scenario.

377

REPLY> This has been discussed at length in the past and nothing conclusive ever surfaced. Keep
track of Rataczack's statement which has Cooper bailing as Rat "could see the nothern suburbs of
Portland". Now, consider what PDX radar saw, if
anyone was looking.

[georger 197]

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Quote

Quote

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Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all.

Orange,

You completely missed the second level conspiracy explanation. To cover up the significance of Duane's 1968 commutation, the MO govt in the very next year dramatically ramped up commutation volume thus effectively diminishing or even nullifying their significance. A guy in a black helicopter told me so.

377

the really funny thing is... that exact "explanation" had crossed my mind! (albeit sans guy from black helicopter)

heh!

I was actually astounded when I found the article. I looked again when 377 said the state numbers I quoted before were too low. So good for 377 to be skeptical at first.

The surprising thing was how MO was apparently unique during the period we were interested in, and how they had a law change in '79. (I'm guessing about other states, but it doesn't really matter what other states were doing, except how it affected our bias...)

Just totally unpredictable. Shows how random coincidences can easily occur and without knowing the full picture, be judged based on present information/bias, rather than the information from the period/region.

The sheer number may also explain why records on Duane were lost.

The article was written by reporters in a hot political race evidently. Someone trying to tar Republicans (or challenge an assertion?) for being soft on crime historically. The reporters were trying to show how that was an unfair tar, that there was a good reason for it. So the data is probably good...during a gubernatorial race, reporters are going to try to be accurate. (relatively modern, 1998) Also they noted that the governor's office couldn't find some records.

So I suspect it's not just Duane's records that were lost, but others also.

But as everyone sees, the key thing was that commutations were given as part of the parole process.

So it's much easier to understand how Duane would be released after serving half his sentence.

REPLY> I forget the year, but,. there was a fire in
a joint State-Federal records centre in 19?? in
StLouis and I know for a fact the fire destroyed hundreds of thousands of Federal military records. Not sure if this is related ....

[Orange1 0]

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Snowmman that was some decent searching, BUT remember that the dots connected without the Commutation....My claim that Duane was Cooper did not rely on that Commutation

Jo, I can't tell you how relieved I am to see that you seem to be accepting that the commutation means nothing.
However, I have to point out that you did use it to connect dots... see below (it's long because i left it unedited - so as not to get accused of selective editing) but see especially your last paragraph.

Now, you surely have to wonder what other bits of "evidence" have led you to various "confirmations" that may be completely spurious. And we still have a situation where the only real bits of evidence - like fingerprints and DNA - just don't match up (not just to Duane, but to anyone so far - like Cook's suspect too).

Quote

This post is in relation to the Commutation of Sentence for John C. Collins.

I have been talking to Missouri State today and I am reporting what I have to date for those who ARE interested.

The state is unable to determine why John Collins’ sentence was commuted. The commutation files from the Hearnes papers found Collins listed on a February 1968 discharge list (showing that he was released with 323 days of merit time), but did not find any supporting documents. He is just a name on a list.

They are checking the penitentiary register books to find out what court he was sentenced from. There are no copies of circuit court case files (which might have information such as his attorney and where he was arrested), but if the case file is unavailable they might be able to tell me where to look for it.

I hope to know more than this by the wks end. If this information IS NOT AVAILABLE then his records were purged......WHY? When the records of others are available and Collins/Weber is not - there had to be intervention by higher sources.

I know that most of you do NOT BUY the INVOLVEMENT FACTOR that I throw out (not conspiracy). But the more obscure the files are of Collins/Weber the more this seems a probability.
If he did indeed snitch on James Earl Ray - this should not be a hidden factor - all of the parties have deceased. Therefore one would have to believe that what Duane did goes beyond a mere snitching.

Facts:
l. When in prison Ray sold foriegn comics and mag.

2.James Earl Ray escapes.

3. James Earl Ray and Duane's common law spouses lived together for a short period

4. Duane is released for Jefferson City early

5. Three wks later MLK is assinated.

6. James Earl Ray get a call from a Mr. Collins at a bar he is working at in CA.

7. Weber gets a call in 1982 and makes a run to Memphis to retrive something...hidden in the wall behind a bathroom mirror.

8. In 1986 a rifle which had been hidden appears in our home - the very same kind of rifle that killed MLK. It had at one time had a scope on it.

9. 1988 - our home is robbed and the first thing Duane does is look for the rifle - yet there were other things taken of far more value. He does NOT list the rifle on the theft report.

10. 1990 - Duane revives John Collins out of fear or purpose...at great risk to himself...the Highway Patrol did not know that he did succeed in his endeavor to obtain the drivers license for John Collins.

11. Why did he need that ID.- For access to a Lock Box perhaps - Money appears at that time - his SS was not much and the business wasn't making any money - no one ever came in - was that a front to show income we needed to live off of those last 5 yrs?

I am sure that not all of the above is considered fact by most of you, but I do because I lived with the man and the very fact that I have NEVER told all I have found and was told to me.

None of this has anything to do with COOPER, but it has EVERYTHING to do WITH COOPER. It may be the WHY. This is not a puzzle - it is the WHY.

WHY did Cooper leave the tie - because it was not his tie - it was a statement. Put a picture of that TIE and CLASP on the front page of a National Magazine. That CLASP WAS NOT a common item.
Somewhere there is a picture of its true owner wearing it...and he wasn't Cooper.

I called another man CRAZY when he told me some things yrs ago - I have since apologized to him, but let him know that he did DRESS the truth a LOT. There were 2 parts of his story I could NOT explain away.

This Commutation of Sentence made these 2 parts of his story creditable. If the documentation has conveniently disappeared then - I guess it is just another story among the many tales told over the yrs regarding the 60's and all of the cover-ups that our government did in the name of "Freedom".

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[nigel99 143]

I was mullying over the "no jump" theory and want to propose a scenario:

Based on the amount of "baggage" that cooper may have needed to jump with and building on the illusionist theories that Cooper managed to control the general flight path by dictating specific requirements how does the following sound?

Cooper obtains the parachutes and starts to package everything including "tying the money" to his body. He has as supplementary equipment the bomb, the surplus parachutes and the little brown bag/briefcase whatever. He kits up for the benefit of the stewardess and then sends her forward. As soon as it is "private" for him he dekits and rigs up a cargo drop containing all the money/briefcase etc. He could potentially use the "bomb" if these were indeed flares as a means of highlighting the payload (much like a night jump) and then if he had access to a walkie talkie and an accomplice - hand deploy/assisted deploy his cargo shipment. I would imagine a flare would not attract much attention on a rainy day as it would only be visible once it broke through the clouds and the accomplice could drive to the locality pretty easily as I guess the canopy would be descending slowly being so lightly loaded. Cooper then has the rest of the flight to "hide" possibly through a service hatch into the underside of the plane (do the lav's have service hatches?). He is then free to leave the plane when the heat is off and in the possible confusion of the plane being met at the receiving end.

I know the above is total speculation and was concocted at about 3 in the morning but beyond the most obvious "hole" in that the flight path was random - which is true for 99% of cooper was clever theories it would appear to be a possibility.

I know that radio range would be excellent to an aircraft but I am not convinced that you could hear what was being said at the rear of an open jet.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 20]

I have a 727 manual and I cannot see where Cooper could have concealed himself effectively without leaving obvious evidence of entry.


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Snowmman that was some decent searching, BUT remember that the dots connected without the Commutation....My claim that Duane was Cooper did not rely on that Commutation

Jo, I can't tell you how relieved I am to see that you seem to be accepting that the commutation means nothing.
However, I have to point out that you did use it to connect dots... see below (it's long because i left it unedited - so as not to get accused of selective editing) but see especially your last paragraph.

Now, you surely have to wonder what other bits of "evidence" have led you to various "confirmations" that may be completely spurious. And we still have a situation where the only real bits of evidence - like fingerprints and DNA - just don't match up (not just to Duane, but to anyone so far - like Cook's suspect too).

Quote

This post is in relation to the Commutation of Sentence for John C. Collins.

I have been talking to Missouri State today and I am reporting what I have to date for those who ARE interested.

The state is unable to determine why John Collins’ sentence was commuted. The commutation files from the Hearnes papers found Collins listed on a February 1968 discharge list (showing that he was released with 323 days of merit time), but did not find any supporting documents. He is just a name on a list.

They are checking the penitentiary register books to find out what court he was sentenced from. There are no copies of circuit court case files (which might have information such as his attorney and where he was arrested), but if the case file is unavailable they might be able to tell me where to look for it.

I hope to know more than this by the wks end. If this information IS NOT AVAILABLE then his records were purged......WHY? When the records of others are available and Collins/Weber is not - there had to be intervention by higher sources.

I know that most of you do NOT BUY the INVOLVEMENT FACTOR that I throw out (not conspiracy). But the more obscure the files are of Collins/Weber the more this seems a probability.
If he did indeed snitch on James Earl Ray - this should not be a hidden factor - all of the parties have deceased. Therefore one would have to believe that what Duane did goes beyond a mere snitching.

Facts:
l. When in prison Ray sold foriegn comics and mag.

2.James Earl Ray escapes.

3. James Earl Ray and Duane's common law spouses lived together for a short period

4. Duane is released for Jefferson City early

5. Three wks later MLK is assinated.

6. James Earl Ray get a call from a Mr. Collins at a bar he is working at in CA.

7. Weber gets a call in 1982 and makes a run to Memphis to retrive something...hidden in the wall behind a bathroom mirror.

8. In 1986 a rifle which had been hidden appears in our home - the very same kind of rifle that killed MLK. It had at one time had a scope on it.

9. 1988 - our home is robbed and the first thing Duane does is look for the rifle - yet there were other things taken of far more value. He does NOT list the rifle on the theft report.

10. 1990 - Duane revives John Collins out of fear or purpose...at great risk to himself...the Highway Patrol did not know that he did succeed in his endeavor to obtain the drivers license for John Collins.

11. Why did he need that ID.- For access to a Lock Box perhaps - Money appears at that time - his SS was not much and the business wasn't making any money - no one ever came in - was that a front to show income we needed to live off of those last 5 yrs?

I am sure that not all of the above is considered fact by most of you, but I do because I lived with the man and the very fact that I have NEVER told all I have found and was told to me.

None of this has anything to do with COOPER, but it has EVERYTHING to do WITH COOPER. It may be the WHY. This is not a puzzle - it is the WHY.

WHY did Cooper leave the tie - because it was not his tie - it was a statement. Put a picture of that TIE and CLASP on the front page of a National Magazine. That CLASP WAS NOT a common item.
Somewhere there is a picture of its true owner wearing it...and he wasn't Cooper.

I called another man CRAZY when he told me some things yrs ago - I have since apologized to him, but let him know that he did DRESS the truth a LOT. There were 2 parts of his story I could NOT explain away.

This Commutation of Sentence made these 2 parts of his story creditable. If the documentation has conveniently disappeared then - I guess it is just another story among the many tales told over the yrs regarding the 60's and all of the cover-ups that our government did in the name of "Freedom".

REPLY> good work.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

However, I have to point out that you did use it to connect dots... see below but see especially your last paragraph.

Just like the rest of you - of you did!

That Commutation would never make or break what I have been saying, but yes, if was a rare occurrence it would sure help.

The records I recieved from the state office did not give statistics of Commutations for 1968 versus other forms of early release.

A woman in the state office assisted me several months ago - perhaps she will also assist Snowmman if he asks this specific question of her. The lady was nice enough to help me and I am not going to ask her to provide statistics, but this should be done before it is completely dismissed by a media article.

I don't believe everything I read in the media - I know from personal experience how they can get their information wrong,

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo,
I really can't understand why you hang out with all the guys on this thread. I think you must enjoy the abuse at some level? I am not your friend. We're just people posting on the internet. The only rational thing for me would be to take potshots at you for some kind of personal sick pleasure. Chasing some thing down for you makes no sense. Probably not even at $300/hr.

More info is easy to find that seems to lend credence to the previously described, unexpected commutation behavior in MO. (pre '79). Here's an example that might lead you places, or give you ways to think about finding the info you want about commutations:

Note it has the feel of confirming the article's information. And this is a court document.

https://www.fastcase.com/Google/Start.aspx?C=f1d69abee7d815c4c0be8fc743590af7614f6031d6488c68&D=d2d6c53eaee7265e3aeacef47d644ede580f2b9d0c67cf38

597 F.Supp. 1092
Steven LOVE, Plaintiff,
v.
Dr. Lee Roy BLACK and Dick Moore, Defendants.
No. 84-1829C(2).

United States District Court, E.D. Missouri, E.D.
November 8, 1984.

"Plaintiff brings this action under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 challenging the discontinuation of a release program whereby the Governor of the State of Missouri would, upon the recommendation of the Department of Corrections, commute sentences of prisoners who had served 6/12 or 7/12 of their sentence. The new program, "administrative parole," allows the release of prisoners upon serving 7/12 of their sentence subject to supervision by the Department of Corrections."
..
"Prior to 1979 Missouri had two basic merit time provisions. Mo.Rev.Stat. § 216.355 (repealed by L.1977, p. 658, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1979) provided for the unconditional release of any prisoner "who shall serve three-fourths of the time for which he was sentenced in an orderly and peaceable manner. ..." The second category of merit time was set forth in Administrative Rules and Regulations. Under this system a prisoner who had served 6/12 or 7/12 of his sentence may have his sentence commuted by the governor upon the recommendation of correction officials. This second category of merit time was based on the governor's power to commute sentences under Article 4, Section 7, of the Missouri Constitution..."

[Orange1 0]

Quote

That Commutation would never make or break what I have been saying, but yes, if was a rare occurrence it would sure help.

you blithely missed the point of that post. So tell us Jo, what WOULD make or break what you have been saying?

Seeing as you have chosen for reasons of your own to ignore real evidence - your whole argument about the fingerprint records being faked for example turned out to be spurious, yet you still don't accept it. Is there anything that will actually convince you that Duane wasn't Cooper, or will you continue believing that as long as you can't find it there must have been a cover-up?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

I would only look at statistics for 1968. The Commutation says 4 yrs but it was my understanding from other documents that he was sentenced to 7 yrs - less with good behaviour.

Actually the Commutation is a mute point at this time - I have things more important - the truth is hiding in plain site.

By the ways YOU GUYS are the best source out there right now - why? Try hiring a 30 yr old to do research for you that doesn't even know who Cooper was? It is like asking him to find the Empire State Building in the middle of a forest.

"D. B. Cooper? Who is that?"

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

your whole argument about the fingerprint records being faked for example turned out to be spurious, yet you still don't accept it.

Fingerprints - I only know what I was told about the prints and the information that was posted here to refute that - I did let that go, but did you? What we don't know is if Cooper actually left any prints at all.

Quote

Is there anything that will actually convince you that Duane wasn't Cooper, or will you continue believing that as long as you can't find it there must have been a cover-up?

Why don't you ask Galen Cook or Geoffry Grey who are both writing books - why they continue to believe their suspect is Cooper and why they continue to hound the FBI? They are looking for money and fame...that is the difference between myself and those kind. Their suspects are victims, but Duane confessed and his background and the things he told me thru out our marriage fit like a kid glove.

I went to the FBI in 1996 - as soon as I understood what Duane meant by "I'm Dan Cooper". I was contacted many times over the yrs by both authors - they must have had a reason.

Why wait until I went public in 2000 to reveal other suspects? Could that reason have been Doubt regarding the suspects?

Can someone prove Duane was not Cooper? - the FBI and private individuals have had 13 yrs to do so. The general public has had 8 yrs....yet NOT ONE person has come forward with information that says Duane Weber was NOT in WA on Thanksgiving eve or Thanksgiving Day.

Was Duane Weber so invisible to family and friends and associates that NOT one living soul came forward to claim he was not Cooper or "No Way - he was with us and we have family to prove it".
It was all over the media and I contacted all the past business associates, family and friends I could locate.

Not one person gave him an alibi - NOT ONE...his where-abouts was not know to any of the employers of record or to family members. Yet, one lone night Clerk put him in Portland the night before the hijacking.....

Now ask me what will it take to convince me Duane was not Cooper? Surely if someone could have identified Cooper in 1971 - they would have come forward - had there been a obvious connection to jumping...

Or maybe it is a simply as - No One Wants to Destroy the Legend..

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber