DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

"MrShutter can use his simulation machine to map out a grid"

Mrshutter has had serious problems with the new computer accepting my Flight Yoke system
been down for 3 weeks

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Amazon is putting holes in my theory of the condition of Coopers remains, I am currently looking into it in order to find more evidence supporting either way...... pretty sure this is how it should be done.....no?

Nah just trying to interject a bit of reality based on what little knowledge I have of the area.. having lived here on this side of the Cascades.. and recreated a LOT in those mountains and on the rivers for most of my life now.

Oh yeah.. there is those hundreds of jumps under round canopies day and night and into water too

I still think a whole bunch of people here REALLY need to take a jump from a plane... and wander thru those DEATH WOODS... and get a firm grip on those realities... its not so scary or DEATH DEFYING once you do it

[skyjack71 0]

Waste of time. You guys just rehash the same things over and over. I just need to get to Spokane, but there is NO way for me to do that! I have contacted a PI for help regarding Spokane

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

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Quote

At 8:12 PM, the pilots noticed the plane was oscillating as if Cooper was on the aft stairs. The oscillations were not felt after 8:13 PM...'

Even if you don't, this is IMHO the best all-around evidence on the jump point. That said, then you can determine approximately where the plane was on the flight path at 8:12-8:13.

Then...establish possible landing zones based on two different parameters:

1) Pulls ripcord right off the stairs. In my opinion, this is more likely due to the load Cooper was carrying.

2) Jump from stairs, freefall, then a pull.

3) Third possibility: no pull and a less-than-gentle landing.

Using the wind direction and windspeed, you could probably narrow down three different landing zones, and maybe within LESS than a square mile. Who knows? Maybe a lot less. I suppose one big point is when you are doing this, you will have to trust the FBI's flight path and timeline.

These would all be educated guesses, of course. And nothing else should be read into them.

Post enlarged maps of all three areas on a web page, with the data used to create them. There are no guarantees here. It's just that I think people should know about this stuff. Just in case they decide to look. If you think about it, even at a square mile each, this narrows a total search area to around 1,900 acres max...which is still a lot less than half of SW Washington. If your calculations narrow it down further, so much the better.

Blevins, That 8:12 time above is just the TIME and not the JUMP geographical location.

If you trust the times and their locations given on the FBI's map track, then please answer the following simple questions:

1. How does the airliner manage to fly six miles between some minute marks and then only three miles between other adjacent minute marks? All the while, the airliner was cruising at a constant speed.

2. Where did the time marks come from and why is one missing?

3. Where did the information for the flight track come from and what is its accuracy?

About three years ago, I wrote some short articles, including some on the validity of the FBI's times and the flight track, and the last I heard these articles were still available on Sluggo's web page.

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

Come on - anyone that's been on the forum or interested in DB Cooper knows the presumed jump time, and where on the map they "might" have been.
You're regurgitating stuff that's been discussed for years about the possible drop zone, and then have this caveat about trusting the FBIs flight path and timeline -- when you constantly deride what the FBI has to say about other things.

The whole point of any discussion about a ground search is figuring out the flight path - and with that you can't ignore things that you don't like.

As an aside, What I don't understand is why folks think that the original search team was out there scratching their butts.

But hey, if you can get it down to 1 square mile, (still a pretty big area btw) by all means get to work on those maps.

I agree with Sluggo too, but as with anything, its all about the man in the mirror. As long as this forum has been going, and we can look back to know it's true - no one has been exempt from being boorish or redundant, including Sluggo - who I admire greatly and hope he doesn't take offense. Hell since he won't be back for 18 months he won't even see this so I worry needlessly. No frickin way I'd read back through 18 months worth.
The forum goes round and round in circles, rehashing constantly, with a lot of foolishness and mayhem, and sometimes its fun and sometimes it's not.
It is what it is.

ETA...How bout them Dawgs!!!!

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Life is a reflection of time and sometimes the brightest lights make themselves known to us when we stop seeking truths and only seek reconcillation.

I had sign off because I keep loosing the connection before I can make a post. This has been going on for months now. New modem and no changes - so it has to be dial-up.

The light that went on - Names flashing very brightly.

I am uncertain of the spelling just the sound. This couple was in the Denver, Co area in 1978, but later went to Spokane.

Can you help me find them? They were younger than Duane and myself. Paul & Phylis Schntzer. Spelling the last name the way it sounds and have NO idea what the actual spelling was.

They were going to Spokane and Duane asked him how his father was - something about the conversation makes me think they were from there or had family there. It may have been her family - I don't know. My mind want to scream it was Paul's father Duane knew in Spokane. Paul was about my age at that time - 40 ish, maybe a little younger. Perhaps how Duane knew Paul.

It was in this conversation that Duane's knowledge and having lived in Spokane was mentioned.

PLEASE those of you who are computer search savy - Please Help! What I said above is all I know about this couple.

HURRY! Please Hurry!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

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Quote

Life is a reflection of time and sometimes the brightest lights make themselves known to us when we stop seeking truths and only seek reconcillation.

I had sign off because I keep loosing the connection before I can make a post. This has been going on for months now. New modem and no changes - so it has to be dial-up.

The light that went on - Names flashing very brightly.

I am uncertain of the spelling just the sound. This couple was in the Denver, Co area in 1978, but later went to Spokane.

Can you help me find them? They were younger than Duane and myself. Paul & Phylis Schntzer. Spelling the last name the way it sounds and have NO idea what the actual spelling was.

They were going to Spokane and Duane asked him how his father was - something about the conversation makes me think they were from there or had family there. It may have been her family - I don't know. My mind want to scream it was Paul's father Duane knew in Spokane. Paul was about my age at that time - 40 ish, maybe a little younger. Perhaps how Duane knew Paul.

It was in this conversation that Duane's knowledge and having lived in Spokane was mentioned.

PLEASE those of you who are computer search savy - Please Help! What I said above is all I know about this couple.

HURRY! Please Hurry!

A quick google search yields a Paul D and Phyllis S Schnitzer - but not in Spokane - they are on Apex, NC land tax roll.

BTW...Google search also brought up entry from Dropzone - apparently you've mentioned them before. Said "It was August of 1977 that I met Duane L. Weber. On March 28, 1978 we were married in Littleton, Co. with Paul and Phyllis Schnitzer in attendance...." maybe you have more info than you think.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

I found a Phyllis with relation to a Paul D see photo

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

A quick google search yields a Paul D and Phyllis S Schnitzer - but not in Spokane - they are on Apex, NC land tax roll.

BTW...Google search also brought up entry from Dropzone - apparently you've mentioned them before. Said "It was August of 1977 that I met Duane L. Weber. On March 28, 1978 we were married in Littleton, Co. with Paul and Phyllis Schnitzer in attendance...." maybe you have more info than you think.

I knew they stood up for us when we got married, but the spelling of the name is not legible on the marriage license. I checked an insurance company in N.C. and wrong people....but, I am going to check it again!

The Apex tax rolls I have not checked. The marriage license does NOT look like it has a i in it and they would both be in their late 60's to early 70's now.

Thanks - I was trying to search at the same time you guys were doing it - most of what I got was asking for $$ to connect you and then they turn out to be the wrong ones - think that is what I did a few yrs ago. Then I shoved it aside and just forgot about it.

It was my talking about Spokane and Duane's knowledge of Spokane - that triggered the memories. Before I think I was just looking for people who knew Duane before I did - this time it was a specific conversation about Spokane....and Duane's familiarity with the area.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

While I was looking at that old post by Jo, I noticed this post by Happythoughts from page 80 (jeez) - It's basically a cut and paste of a comment from another site:

Quote

by Bill Rattie
Ewa Beach, HI

I spent a month or two in the the dead winter of 1971 looking for DB while I was stationed at Fort Lewis with the Third Cav. They called it adventure training. I carried the radio for my captain and was close to the FBI agents every day. I saw a map overlay of where they thought DB dropped from the plane along with the wind pattern. At the very spot where they estimated his chute opened I found a brown penny loafer in the woods next to a remote farm field. His drift would have landed him in the middle Lake Merwin. A man made lake near Woodland WA. this lake was dammed, filled and "never" logged. I'm sure that if he landed in that lake on that stormy cold night he would have sunk to the bottom and gotten hung up with his chute in the uncut timber at the bottom of the lake. I never saw or heard of that penny loafer again. I have been trying to contact Galen Cook or anybody interested about this. We spent long cold days searching and were flown out by helicopter every morning to new search sites. It was cold and snowy and we camped in a field a few miles from the lake for almost two months. Does anybody even know about this? The ground up money was found in the columbia river well below the lake. [email protected]

It was followed up by a post by Snowmman, which said

Quote

"The shoe story made me think this would be a good time to mention again the "Strange Man Walking On Lewis River Rd." story.
___
This is from a newspaper article, talking about the night of 11/24/71. Harold may not have reported it right away. The news article is from 11/29/76 (attached)
___
"Harold Babitzke. who lives five miles from town, said his daughter was startled by "a strange man" carrying a package under his arm on Lewis River Road, which runs past Ariel. "He looked like he didn't want a ride from anybody." Babitzke said. "I really think it was Cooper."
___
I tracked down the apparent Harold Babitzke street address [not included for privacy] but position is:
45°59'34.57"N 122°31'48.42"W
[Edit] Google Earth show some cleared fields in that area currently. It's very near the top drift line..right above Lake Merwin.
___
The article mentions the FBI following this lead to a dead end but who knows. I guess not much you could do with it anyhow. Be interesting if Ckret can find anything about it in the files.

Does anyone know if anything ever came of this? I read for two pages but didn't see that Ckret ever answered the question or whether Galen Cook was ever notified or looked into this or anymore info.

Bruce this sounds like an interview that you might be interested in??.......

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

might have been this site...

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/fbi/TJ90419CQJGJ5NKV8

also 558. Waipahu 94-1453 waipio uka st. William Rattie 808-638-2883

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

Quote

might have been this site...

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/fbi/TJ90419CQJGJ5NKV8

It was. Happythoughts posted the site link, but i didn't copy that. Just sheer laziness on my part.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Quote

might have been this site...

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/fbi/TJ90419CQJGJ5NKV8

It was. Happythoughts posted the site link, but i didn't copy that. Just sheer laziness on my part.

no worries, little team effort is good

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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Quote

I know this guy, that is, Bill Rattie. Back in the late 90's, he was Gayla's boss when she was doing retail. She did 14 years at Fred Meyers, and then Rattie hired her at an Ace Hardware store for a few years. Small world: Gayla and I MET at a place people went for lunch from Ace. Okay. It was a cocktail lounge. Okay. It was a bar.

He used to be the manager at the Des Moines (WA) Ace Hardware. It may be the same Bill Rattie. Look at his address/website...building materials. I wouldn't rely on that for contacting him, though. Met him a few times, a real solid guy. Nice guy. If you called him for an interview, he's the type who would talk to you. Well...assuming it's the same Bill Rattie.

Island Home Building Materials
(808) 845-1122
1622 Kanakanui St
Honolulu, HI 96817

Edit: There are some references to this company on the internet, but I could not locate an actual website, unless it goes under another name besides islandhomebuildingmaterialsDOTCOM. Could be a one-man business or something. The voice mail says they are closed and there is no message facility. Gayla says Rattie would have been 19 or 20 at the time of the hijacking, and before he did Ace Hardware he was in business for himself doing either construction or material sales down in the Hoquiam area. He did move from the Des Moines area after his divorce in 2001 or so. She says she doesn't know if he was in the Army. Maybe it's the same guy. Maybe not. Should be easy to verify. Since Gayla and he got along well, I will try calling him later in the week. I'll ask him to confirm if he was the one who made that statement (I copied and printed it) and then he and Gayla can hash over old times at the Ace.

Might not be same Bill Rattie, of course....

Mr Shutter has another number/address above.

If you or BruceSmith or whoever else likes to call folks out of the blue and interview them calls him and he's the guy who posted, ask him if he ever got any followup on the shoe from FBI or Galen Cook - and, Blevins, don't let your Galen tic kick in Also ask him for some details on the search - basically everything he knows, saw, heard [/;)].

Even if the shoe is a non-issue it would be interesting to hear from someone who was there. Hell I might just email him through FB and ask him to come visit the dropzone. He looks like he can handle himself.
Gayla and her co-workers went to a bar for their lunch hour? I can appreciate that but I bet folks looking for a plunger and ending up with vise grips might be a little miffed.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Fine. Idea was suggested, and rejected.

Moving on now. I'm off to watch the remainder of the Rose Bowl.

MeyerLouie: When I met you at Ariel, I never realized you were a total jerk. You haven't contributed a thing lately except for a lot of name-calling. That, and your assumption that Cooper was a sociopath because you know criminals because you worked at a prison. Then, when I made a natural assumption that because you 'know criminal behavior' that you must have been a guard, you say you weren't. Inspecting those boilers, or whatever you did there, sure gives you insight into peoples' psychosis and/or criminal behavior, doesn't it?

You might be this or that, but I'd guess an expert on criminal behavior you are not.

_________________________________________________

And exactly what does that little argument contibute to anything regarding this case? What have you contributed, Mr. Arrogant Know-It-All -- who has not done his homework on the DBC case, who is a self-proclaimed non-expert but talks like he is an expert, whose only reason for being here is to railroad through his ridiculous KC theory to sell a few books.

After you submit your KC report to the FBI, doesn't that about complete your mission here? Isn't your work here complete? You have no intention of learning even the basic facts of the case, the only thing that matters is KC, and your mission re: KC seems to be complete now -- you've come full circle.

I respect everyone on this forum, except you. Everyone here tries to speak with integrity, except you. Everyone here tries to be competent, except you. You are a disruptive child.

MeyerLouie

[georger 197]

Quote

While I was looking at that old post by Jo, I noticed this post by Happythoughts from page 80 (jeez) - It's basically a cut and paste of a comment from another site:

Quote

by Bill Rattie
Ewa Beach, HI

I spent a month or two in the the dead winter of 1971 looking for DB while I was stationed at Fort Lewis with the Third Cav. They called it adventure training. I carried the radio for my captain and was close to the FBI agents every day. I saw a map overlay of where they thought DB dropped from the plane along with the wind pattern. At the very spot where they estimated his chute opened I found a brown penny loafer in the woods next to a remote farm field. His drift would have landed him in the middle Lake Merwin. A man made lake near Woodland WA. this lake was dammed, filled and "never" logged. I'm sure that if he landed in that lake on that stormy cold night he would have sunk to the bottom and gotten hung up with his chute in the uncut timber at the bottom of the lake. I never saw or heard of that penny loafer again. I have been trying to contact Galen Cook or anybody interested about this. We spent long cold days searching and were flown out by helicopter every morning to new search sites. It was cold and snowy and we camped in a field a few miles from the lake for almost two months. Does anybody even know about this? The ground up money was found in the columbia river well below the lake. [email protected]

It was followed up by a post by Snowmman, which said

Quote

"The shoe story made me think this would be a good time to mention again the "Strange Man Walking On Lewis River Rd." story.
___
This is from a newspaper article, talking about the night of 11/24/71. Harold may not have reported it right away. The news article is from 11/29/76 (attached)
___
"Harold Babitzke. who lives five miles from town, said his daughter was startled by "a strange man" carrying a package under his arm on Lewis River Road, which runs past Ariel. "He looked like he didn't want a ride from anybody." Babitzke said. "I really think it was Cooper."
___
I tracked down the apparent Harold Babitzke street address [not included for privacy] but position is:
45°59'34.57"N 122°31'48.42"W
[Edit] Google Earth show some cleared fields in that area currently. It's very near the top drift line..right above Lake Merwin.
___
The article mentions the FBI following this lead to a dead end but who knows. I guess not much you could do with it anyhow. Be interesting if Ckret can find anything about it in the files.

Does anyone know if anything ever came of this? I read for two pages but didn't see that Ckret ever answered the question or whether Galen Cook was ever notified or looked into this or anymore info.

Bruce this sounds like an interview that you might be interested in??.......

No need to look for Bill Rattie, because Bill Rattie
was here and posted several times, then left after
(guess who) RobertMBlevins began correcting Rattie
about 'weather conditions during the jump' later
citing 'conditions on D-Day', of all things to Rattie.
It was bizarre and nobody but Blevins really replied;
and is all still in the search archive including Rattie's
gmail address he left for anyone to use.
People have already talked to Rattie... long ago.

Blevins doesnt even recall that Rattie was here and
that he Blevins addressed and contradicted Rattie!

Blevins was preoccupied at the time defending his
book and attacking anyone on anything, Rattie
appeared and posted, Blevins jumped Rattie
immediately on Rattie's statement about the
weather the night of the hijacking! Blevins spouted
WX Undergrond data at Rattie.

Blevins posted a second time to Rattie saying (if you
can believe this!): "wanted to add that at certain
times, Army paratroopers have done jumps under
similar weather conditions. At night sometimes. D-
Day could be an example...(*smiles*) ".

Jerry Thomas posted saying the shoe was never
lost and the FBI has it -

And Mr. Rattie departed Dropzone. Ive been told
that Rattie did not like the hostile reaction he got
and thought this forum was full of 'crazy people and fakes'.

So, no need to search out Rattie - Rattie was here!

Here is Rattie's full post and his email address
below:
________________________________________________

Page #870
wilrat08
Jumps
License
In sport :
:
:
Jan 29, 2011, 11:55 PM
Post #21739 of 39566 (587 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 29, 2011
Posts: 1

Re: [happythoughts] Duane with Glasses [In reply
to] Can't Post

My name is Bill Rattie, I found the brown penny
loafer at the point the FBI's wind overlay marked DB
coopers chute openeing just short of lake merwin
dam. The location was about one hundred feet
outside a pasture a fence on a remote farm far from
any road. My MOS in the army was a RECON SGT. I
can read a map better than anyone you know. Also,
Iam a licenced pilot. Did anyone ever think he lost
one shoe when the cute opened? Remember it was
hard cold weather the night he jumped, and I cannot
think he survived the drop. I was flying back from
Denver to Seattle that night and my flight was
delayed because of bad weather. When I finally got
a flight that dark morning the weather was horrible.
Also they found ground up money years later
downstream of the river mouth into the Columbia. I
would bet everything I own that DB is at the bottom
of lake Merwin tangled in the trees. Guess this a is
too simple. I stood there with a PRC25 on my back.
Capt Lidig on my right an an x navy fighter pilot FBI
agent looking at the overlay on the map I carried
with the damn shoe in my hand. The shoe vanished
and I have never heard anything about it again, By
the way it was dark brown, good condition, and I
don't remember any penny in it. Also, I wear a size
eleven and this shoe wa a couple sizes smaller was
smaller. [email protected]

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

While I was looking at that old post by Jo, I noticed this post by Happythoughts from page 80 (jeez) - It's basically a cut and paste of a comment from another site:

Quote

by Bill Rattie
Ewa Beach, HI

I spent a month or two in the the dead winter of 1971 looking for DB while I was stationed at Fort Lewis with the Third Cav. They called it adventure training. I carried the radio for my captain and was close to the FBI agents every day. I saw a map overlay of where they thought DB dropped from the plane along with the wind pattern. At the very spot where they estimated his chute opened I found a brown penny loafer in the woods next to a remote farm field. His drift would have landed him in the middle Lake Merwin. A man made lake near Woodland WA. this lake was dammed, filled and "never" logged. I'm sure that if he landed in that lake on that stormy cold night he would have sunk to the bottom and gotten hung up with his chute in the uncut timber at the bottom of the lake. I never saw or heard of that penny loafer again. I have been trying to contact Galen Cook or anybody interested about this. We spent long cold days searching and were flown out by helicopter every morning to new search sites. It was cold and snowy and we camped in a field a few miles from the lake for almost two months. Does anybody even know about this? The ground up money was found in the columbia river well below the lake. [email protected]

It was followed up by a post by Snowmman, which said

Quote

"The shoe story made me think this would be a good time to mention again the "Strange Man Walking On Lewis River Rd." story.
___
This is from a newspaper article, talking about the night of 11/24/71. Harold may not have reported it right away. The news article is from 11/29/76 (attached)
___
"Harold Babitzke. who lives five miles from town, said his daughter was startled by "a strange man" carrying a package under his arm on Lewis River Road, which runs past Ariel. "He looked like he didn't want a ride from anybody." Babitzke said. "I really think it was Cooper."
___
I tracked down the apparent Harold Babitzke street address [not included for privacy] but position is:
45°59'34.57"N 122°31'48.42"W
[Edit] Google Earth show some cleared fields in that area currently. It's very near the top drift line..right above Lake Merwin.
___
The article mentions the FBI following this lead to a dead end but who knows. I guess not much you could do with it anyhow. Be interesting if Ckret can find anything about it in the files.

Does anyone know if anything ever came of this? I read for two pages but didn't see that Ckret ever answered the question or whether Galen Cook was ever notified or looked into this or anymore info.

Bruce this sounds like an interview that you might be interested in??.......

Well, I believe this same woman contacted me because her story about her husband is almost the same. The name is different. The FBI was notified about the story in 2001 when she contacted me from the articles done by Margie Boule! SAME VERY SAME AREA. I will see that she get a Copy of this tomorrow because I think it was her husband who saw a man in this same area. This is when I talked about the LOGGING bridge that AMAZON assured you all was there in 1971. They had their own theory about where he went from that point.

The authorities wanted NO part of this. If it is not her husband then we have 2 sitings in the same area. I missed this - very glad you found it.

Maybe NOW someone will LISTEN!

I don't know how I missed it or I would have sent a copy to Kathy.

I thought she said her husbands name was Bennett, but I could be mistaken. He said Cooper had a sweater on under his jacket and was carring a bag - looked like a satchel but couldhave been part of a chute.

All I know right now!

He was on his way to do some work for a friend to make extra money.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

I didn't make the connection on Rattie the first time he posted. Only met him a couple of times and that was back in '98. I wouldn't call my reply to him 'jumping on him,' either:

"Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..."

Marilyn Monroe

So you did make the connection the second time
Rattie posted and realised who he was, in the history
of the Cooper case? Decided to and
him asap ?

What's this bullshit about D-Day in your second
post back to SGT Rattie?

quote:

"I wanted to add that at certain times, Army paratroopers have done jumps under similar weather conditions. At night sometimes. D-Day could be an example...(*smiles*)

Downside: Hijacker wasn't dressed very well for any weather, or for jumping out of a jet. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. "

Why are you correcting and educating Sgt Rattie on
military history, if you finally recognised who he was
and his significance to the DB Cooper case, inserting
yourself saying things like, quote: "'Hello...
(hello)...is there anybody IN there...'? " which you said to another immediately below Rattie's post.

Why cant you allow people at Dropzone to give their
side of a story, without your compulsion to control
taking over? What is this "tic" you have to control
and dominate everything 24-7 even on New Years
Eve!? Dont you ever take time off (have a personal
life) ?

We pay a heavy price for your having been here,
just as Gray, Cook, and others predicted would be
the case. But you have had plenty of help and
enablers ...

[quade 3]

Take some time off.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

What the heck is going on. Why was MeyerLouie given vacation time? I read back and this is a real puzzle? I didn't think Meyer said anything harse and he has been nicer and more informed than some of the others.

At any rate - I just sent off the copy of the story about a man and his daughter seeing someone the next morning to a woman who was married to a man who saw the same thing - early Thanksgiving Morning.

Giving her time to receive the email and then I will call her - need to find out if this is the same location and maybe the same person! Probably not, but it is worth a call and the email.

Bye for now - I am staying out of trouble and being good girl. Similar to the expression Duane made to his mother in that letter from Camp Siebert, Al.

Think I will follow his lead - but it didn't work for him in 1943 - so it probably won't work for me in 2013. I just hate the number 13!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

What the heck is going on. Why was
MeyerLouie given vacation time? I read back and
this is a real puzzle? I didn't think Meyer said
anything harse and he has been nicer and more
informed than some of the others.

At any rate - !

I try to roll with things and survive as best I can.
The renewed Rattie matter has generated some off-
site discussion which I can share.

If you recall Mr. Rattie's 'shoe' story came up here
and elsewhere even before Mr. Rattie appeared here
himself, one or two years later, as I recall this.

The Rattie shoe story was discussed a little here but
also elsewhere. Im a little fuzzy on the details but it
may have been Snowmman who finally suggested
that Rattie was possibly confusing weather conditions
during the search, with weather conditions the night
of the hijacking? I dont know. Only Rattie could clear
that up possibly. But Blevins is right. The socalled
'conventional' weather story for the night of the
hijacking was/is Himmeslbach's version, ie hellish
conditions, which we have always known was not
exactly true.

Look! We have always had the basaic wx facts from
NOAA, NWS, etc. We never needed that, from
Blevins or anyone else. Then Hominid arrived and
did a superb analysis using wx data, and that
was very helpful and NEW ... I would have loved to
have had Ckret here during that for his comment.

What we have needed is people like Rattie
explaining what they meant in their own words and
why they are saying what they have always said.
It may be nothing more than confusion on Rattie's
part but the man is entitled to have his say ...
which might lead to a better understanding overall.

It has been suggested off-site that we try and get
Rattie back here for further better discussion of his
story ... let's see what develops. Some good people
are on it, I think.

Those are my feelings on the matter -

Duane was NOT DB Cooper!

[CanadianGuy 0]

Thanks, Skyjack71. I'd be interested in more details of what Gunther may have suggested to you was true, altered or fiction in his book. Particularly some specific areas...it sounds like you may not want to on this public forum. Please let me know if there's another way i could get some of these background details from. They are for my own guidance. Thanks again.

Gray's book seems to lean toward a conspiracy involving several of the most popular suspects - or Bobby/Barbara Dayton. Is interesting how suspicion around Ken Christiansen leads him to the story - and the process draws him 180 degress away from that suspect and on a road towards a mess of other possibilities.

I'm still fascinated by Gunther's methodology and story. And would be interested in what elements are suggested to be false, and what elements are suggested to be true.

Thanks to all for keeping this robust discussion - despite its obvious pitfalls evident here - alive and strong.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Smokin99 says in part:

***'If you or BruceSmith or whoever else likes to call folks out of the blue and interview them calls him and he's the guy who posted, ask him if he ever got any followup on the shoe from FBI or Galen Cook..'

I wouldn't take Cook's word that day is light and night is dark. I'll ask Rattie if he ever heard anything from the FBI. Or maybe Bruce should do it. You want Cook? Email him and ask him yourself. I only reference Cook with what he posts publicly, or when he does interviews, or posts evidence.

Sure thing Blevins. I think I'll do that. No reason to get snarky. The reason I mentioned Cook is because Mr Rattie mentioned Cook. And you seemed real eager to contact the guy since you knew him. But I see from Georger's posts that Mr Rattie has been here and left. I'll have to search those posts. So you can disregard my post. You're absolutely right - Anything I want to ask anyone I can do myself.

But I still think an interview with him or anyone else close to the actual events would make a good article so I'll let my suggestion to BruceSmith stand.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I'm still fascinated by Gunther's methodology and story. And would be interested in what elements are suggested to be false, and what elements are suggested to be true.

Thanks to all for keeping this robust discussion - despite its obvious pitfalls evident here - alive and strong.

I did a page by page report on this several months ago in the thread. I am NOT good at searches.

Strange you are Canadian as there is a key individual in the Cooper case who is in the process of moving to Canada. Now we will find out who knows what?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

The so called 'conventional' weather story for the night of the hijacking we have always known was not exactly true.

Sire I bowel to you on that one. Thank You!

Something I want clarification one is NOT Rattie's story but the story Snowmman found. I contacted my individual in WA - she is getting old, but she provided me not with answers, but questions for the thread.

The NEWS article Snowmman posted:

1. What Town was the writer for what Newpaper indicating?
2. She had never heard this particular story - so what was it's source.
3. Who is Harold Babitzke and where did he live. The co-ordinates mean nothing to her nor to me.
4. What time of day was the siting? It was dark when Cooper hit the ground - RIGHT?
5. A map providing the point the the LOG TRUCK BRIDGE crossed over the water.

Now these questions are very important....Another siting was made early Thanksgiving morning. She has lived most of her life in the area and so has her sister - but NO ONE seems to understand what the guy meant by "very near the top drift line right above Lake Merwin".

Evidently from the report the siting on the eve of the jump was at night. Where they in a car or in a house? Why was she startled? If in a car was this a young girl who pointed out she saw someone on the road? Or was she an adult?

The co-ordinates are given but they do NOT mean anything to old women....help us out here.

Was the area in this article near Yale or Cougar? There is a very very specific reason to know exactly the location of the siting and even the name of the town referenced.

The siting the next morning was on a road NOT too far from the Logging Truck Bridge a lot of you claimed did NOT exist, but Amazon assured you it did exist and was in use during 1971. She also verified the old tracks on the south side of the bridge and their existence and owned by the logging industry. It was indicated even remanents of some of these old rails are still there.

Now - what we need to do is correlate that location with the Logging bridge that crossed. She like myself know that lots of people claimed to have seen things - but there are certain sitings that are undeniable.

Cooper had an escape route.
Did he have an accomplice?
How far could he have traveled in the dead of night?
It was important he stay on the move during the night, but stay out of site - so how would he have done this had he landed near the Lewis River Road?

Come on someone must be able to find this - perhaps some of you pilots can pinpoint it with the cordinates. Old women can't unless we were pilots. Obviously we aren't. So help us gals in our 70's out here.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber