Hominid 0
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Hominid 0
So Tina has given the simple instructions and request about leaving the normal handle in the UP position to Dan, and has gone forward. She may have opened the panel and shown Dan the lawn-mower-starting-ripcord-like thing there.
The air pressure is the same as in the aircraft cabin, including the cockpit, and both of these are essentially the same as the pressure outside the aircraft at the aft airstair. There's quite a bit of noise because the intake duct for the center engine runs just a few feet over Dan's head.
The amber AFT ENTRY light at the top of the first column of lights on the flight engineer's annunciator panel has been lit since the door was opened at SEATAC The crew never mentions it because having the door open had already been established at SEATAC.
Dan stands in, or just outside, the aft entry/exit door. Looking down into the stairwell, past the four fixed steps built into the fuselage, he sees something like the attached pic depending upon how much light he has.
He turns to his left and stands with his left foot on the tiny "landing" aft of the door and with his right foot a step or two down the fixed part of the stairway, so that he is facing the panel where the aft airstair (normal) control handle is.
The door enclosing the emergency extension control was probably already opened when Tina was explaining the stair stuff to him, but it's simple to open if not. It's likely it was the same door as for the normal control handle, in which case Dan may have found it hard to read the normal handle position markings, and the big arching arrow marked DOWN, which are almost the total extent of the normal handle instruction markings (and all anyone would need).
The normal control station is close up against the aft side of the pressure bulkhead, which may have blocked his available light. It won't be visible in a photo taken from within the cabin unless the camera is held right at the door frame on the opposite side of the door.
It is also likely that it would be hard to read the little emergency exit (emergency extension) instruction placard later to be found near Toutle.
If Dan sees the normal control handle, he can see that it is at UP (as he has been told). He leaves it there. He has no burning desire to hurt the crew.
He turns to the emergency extension control. It is likely behind the same door as the normal control, based on the likely "right" ("RI___") on the Toutle placard and the fact that the Toutle placard says "ACCESS DOOR" rather than referring to the little pull-out panels like on the TWA and World Airways cargo-version -100 series 727s of the same time period. If not, it would be a door just aft of the door for the normal controls just where the controls were for the TWA and WA convertible (cargo) 727s.
Dan could not have had difficulty understanding the instructions on how to drop the stair. They would have been quite simple. If he had to resort to reading the Toutle placard, he may have had difficulty doing that because of dim light. It's very likely that something just didn't work like it was supposed to.
It may well have been that the lockwire was actually quite hard to break.
There is a very good chance that NWA flight ops gave him defective instructions. The possibility arises because the instructions on the NWA Toutle placard were defective. My '68 TWA manual and 377's WA manual both say the handle has to be pulled to the full extent of the cable. The Transport Canada's instuctions for emergency extension on -100 series 727s say to "pull sharply." None of this is on the Toutle placard, so it was likely not in NWA documentation and their flight ops likely just didn't consider it.
If Dan did not pull the cable out hard enough and all the way to the end of the cable, the valve would not have been actuated. If this happened, he would have had to gradually allow the cable take-up to reel the cable back in all the way so as not to jam, then "let 'er rip" again. (No, No Dan. Don't just let go of it!) Did his instructions from Tina say to let the cable rewind gradually? If not, there's a likely problem for him.
If he didn't allow the cable to rewind gradually, it likely would jam and that could give him some more grief. He would likely not have been instructed on how to deal with such a thing that wasn't supposed to happen. It could burn some time until the cable got wound back all the way and he then pulled it all the way back out, sharply.
When the emergency extension system finally popped, it is possible that the stairs would still be hung up because of mangled uplatches and mangled uplock roller mounting brackets. The brackets need to pull out of the pockets in the side channels of the stairs in order for the stairs to be set free because the latches would still be hanging onto the uplock rollers (if the normal control had been left at UP). It could have taken some vibration or shaking or shoving to free the stair.
When the stairs dropped, even a bit, the amber AFT AIRSTAIR light immediately below the AFT ENTRY light (lit all along) on the FE annunciator panel came on. It would stay on until the stair rebound and "pressure bump" to come later when Dan finally jumps. This AFT AIRSTAIR light is the second from the top of the first column of lights on the panel. The light comes on because of the proximity sensor out near the end of the stairs.
TO BE CONTINUED
The air pressure is the same as in the aircraft cabin, including the cockpit, and both of these are essentially the same as the pressure outside the aircraft at the aft airstair. There's quite a bit of noise because the intake duct for the center engine runs just a few feet over Dan's head.
The amber AFT ENTRY light at the top of the first column of lights on the flight engineer's annunciator panel has been lit since the door was opened at SEATAC The crew never mentions it because having the door open had already been established at SEATAC.
Dan stands in, or just outside, the aft entry/exit door. Looking down into the stairwell, past the four fixed steps built into the fuselage, he sees something like the attached pic depending upon how much light he has.
He turns to his left and stands with his left foot on the tiny "landing" aft of the door and with his right foot a step or two down the fixed part of the stairway, so that he is facing the panel where the aft airstair (normal) control handle is.
The door enclosing the emergency extension control was probably already opened when Tina was explaining the stair stuff to him, but it's simple to open if not. It's likely it was the same door as for the normal control handle, in which case Dan may have found it hard to read the normal handle position markings, and the big arching arrow marked DOWN, which are almost the total extent of the normal handle instruction markings (and all anyone would need).
The normal control station is close up against the aft side of the pressure bulkhead, which may have blocked his available light. It won't be visible in a photo taken from within the cabin unless the camera is held right at the door frame on the opposite side of the door.
It is also likely that it would be hard to read the little emergency exit (emergency extension) instruction placard later to be found near Toutle.
If Dan sees the normal control handle, he can see that it is at UP (as he has been told). He leaves it there. He has no burning desire to hurt the crew.
He turns to the emergency extension control. It is likely behind the same door as the normal control, based on the likely "right" ("RI___") on the Toutle placard and the fact that the Toutle placard says "ACCESS DOOR" rather than referring to the little pull-out panels like on the TWA and World Airways cargo-version -100 series 727s of the same time period. If not, it would be a door just aft of the door for the normal controls just where the controls were for the TWA and WA convertible (cargo) 727s.
Dan could not have had difficulty understanding the instructions on how to drop the stair. They would have been quite simple. If he had to resort to reading the Toutle placard, he may have had difficulty doing that because of dim light. It's very likely that something just didn't work like it was supposed to.
It may well have been that the lockwire was actually quite hard to break.
There is a very good chance that NWA flight ops gave him defective instructions. The possibility arises because the instructions on the NWA Toutle placard were defective. My '68 TWA manual and 377's WA manual both say the handle has to be pulled to the full extent of the cable. The Transport Canada's instuctions for emergency extension on -100 series 727s say to "pull sharply." None of this is on the Toutle placard, so it was likely not in NWA documentation and their flight ops likely just didn't consider it.
If Dan did not pull the cable out hard enough and all the way to the end of the cable, the valve would not have been actuated. If this happened, he would have had to gradually allow the cable take-up to reel the cable back in all the way so as not to jam, then "let 'er rip" again. (No, No Dan. Don't just let go of it!) Did his instructions from Tina say to let the cable rewind gradually? If not, there's a likely problem for him.
If he didn't allow the cable to rewind gradually, it likely would jam and that could give him some more grief. He would likely not have been instructed on how to deal with such a thing that wasn't supposed to happen. It could burn some time until the cable got wound back all the way and he then pulled it all the way back out, sharply.
When the emergency extension system finally popped, it is possible that the stairs would still be hung up because of mangled uplatches and mangled uplock roller mounting brackets. The brackets need to pull out of the pockets in the side channels of the stairs in order for the stairs to be set free because the latches would still be hanging onto the uplock rollers (if the normal control had been left at UP). It could have taken some vibration or shaking or shoving to free the stair.
When the stairs dropped, even a bit, the amber AFT AIRSTAIR light immediately below the AFT ENTRY light (lit all along) on the FE annunciator panel came on. It would stay on until the stair rebound and "pressure bump" to come later when Dan finally jumps. This AFT AIRSTAIR light is the second from the top of the first column of lights on the panel. The light comes on because of the proximity sensor out near the end of the stairs.
TO BE CONTINUED
Hominid 0
Dry helps in that stayin warm part.
Good night, Robert.
Good night, Georger.
Good night, Robert.
Good night, Georger.
Blevins Stated:
Jo Comments:
Regarding JT's comments about someone contacting Tina and her family. HOPE he is NOT referring to me.
It is a WELL known fact that I have known Tina's location since the early 2000's and NEVER divulged it - I did finally contact her in 2003 and in a nice quiet way. I did NOT impose myself on her.
As for Tina's family - that was only recently to let them know they needed to be there for Tina since her location had been made public by a book writer.
The second time was to let them know they would have a visitor.
Perhaps JT does NOT know that I am the one who made it possible for Tina and the co-pilot to reconnect. I for one have NOT abuse my knowledge of the contact. I chose only to protect and do NO harm.
Unlike others I have not been to their door. I made 3 contacts (by leaving messages) for Tina (1 of these contacts was in the last 2 yrs to warn her of sneaky snakes lurking). The 3rd was the message from the co-pilot. There was a 4th contact with Tina yrs ago - the initial contact and the only time I made a personal request.
I made 2 contacts to the Sister and all of you know I did that as I did NOT approve of what others intended to do. (both contacts were very brief and NOT about me or Duane).
I suggest JT be VERY careful how he hands out insults without names and makes it sound like me by using the word YRS. Considering I have know for YRS Tina's location and contact information - I have NOT been aggressive and felt that if she wanted to discuss Cooper - it should be on her terms and of her choosing. By playing ignorant - I did manage for yrs to keep the wolves at bay.
Can't you guys hear JT now - calling me a liar? Those who know me will tell you the above is true. The one LIE I have told was that I did NOT know how to reach Tina. WHY? Because I did NOT want to be hounded by certain individuals - one being Galen Cook. I still have his letter written to me in 2004 trying to weasel her contact information out of me...there had been multiple phone calls prior to that...asking for the information.
It was only last yr. that I told Cook where to find the divorce papers and if he couldn't locate her with that - well, that was his problem. Because I felt quilty about telling him that much - one of my phone calls to Tina was to warn her about Galen. He had caught me in a weak moment.
Yea, 377 - I had you convinced I didn't know where Tina was - remember our PM's? It is usually best to not let others know everything you know.
NOW, you had me going at one place in all of this - and gave me reason to think perhaps Tina's location and number was just a ploy and the person I spoke to yrs ago might not have been the real Tina.
You played me on that one. I WANTED this other person to be Tina - I wanted to see her radiating happiness like that. Hope you don't mind my using this as an example of the games posters have played in this thread.
Now that I have the information I really needed - it is a matter of getting the FBI to co-operate with my guys. As long as the FBI keeps their heads in the sand like an Ostrich - they will NOT solve this case. As long as they do NOT back track they will not solve this case. It has been solved for them by someone else - but, their assistance is needed on a couple of matters and one being a specific offer of protection to an individual for the information he holds.
Because JT with his "Liar Liar Story" has created a problem - we first have to erradicate - JT and this is in progress.
Therefore JT is only important if he is a red herring....meaning he was involved in some way and has been working as a deterent for all of these yrs. I think he is what he appears to be - an emotionally disturbed veteran and as his daughter said.
"He's a Braggart".
QuoteJust before the Bruce article came out, I had the Dormuths pretty close to cooperation. At that point, I wasn't saying anything about it at DZ because frankly I didn't want anyone here screwing that up. I didn't know at that time they were getting stuff from both me and Galen Cook. Then they met Bruce. Then they stopped responding. I sent them a letter and the book anyway, but not the docs or pictures.
Jo Comments:
Regarding JT's comments about someone contacting Tina and her family. HOPE he is NOT referring to me.
It is a WELL known fact that I have known Tina's location since the early 2000's and NEVER divulged it - I did finally contact her in 2003 and in a nice quiet way. I did NOT impose myself on her.
As for Tina's family - that was only recently to let them know they needed to be there for Tina since her location had been made public by a book writer.
The second time was to let them know they would have a visitor.
Perhaps JT does NOT know that I am the one who made it possible for Tina and the co-pilot to reconnect. I for one have NOT abuse my knowledge of the contact. I chose only to protect and do NO harm.
Unlike others I have not been to their door. I made 3 contacts (by leaving messages) for Tina (1 of these contacts was in the last 2 yrs to warn her of sneaky snakes lurking). The 3rd was the message from the co-pilot. There was a 4th contact with Tina yrs ago - the initial contact and the only time I made a personal request.
I made 2 contacts to the Sister and all of you know I did that as I did NOT approve of what others intended to do. (both contacts were very brief and NOT about me or Duane).
I suggest JT be VERY careful how he hands out insults without names and makes it sound like me by using the word YRS. Considering I have know for YRS Tina's location and contact information - I have NOT been aggressive and felt that if she wanted to discuss Cooper - it should be on her terms and of her choosing. By playing ignorant - I did manage for yrs to keep the wolves at bay.
Can't you guys hear JT now - calling me a liar? Those who know me will tell you the above is true. The one LIE I have told was that I did NOT know how to reach Tina. WHY? Because I did NOT want to be hounded by certain individuals - one being Galen Cook. I still have his letter written to me in 2004 trying to weasel her contact information out of me...there had been multiple phone calls prior to that...asking for the information.
It was only last yr. that I told Cook where to find the divorce papers and if he couldn't locate her with that - well, that was his problem. Because I felt quilty about telling him that much - one of my phone calls to Tina was to warn her about Galen. He had caught me in a weak moment.
Yea, 377 - I had you convinced I didn't know where Tina was - remember our PM's? It is usually best to not let others know everything you know.
NOW, you had me going at one place in all of this - and gave me reason to think perhaps Tina's location and number was just a ploy and the person I spoke to yrs ago might not have been the real Tina.
You played me on that one. I WANTED this other person to be Tina - I wanted to see her radiating happiness like that. Hope you don't mind my using this as an example of the games posters have played in this thread.
Now that I have the information I really needed - it is a matter of getting the FBI to co-operate with my guys. As long as the FBI keeps their heads in the sand like an Ostrich - they will NOT solve this case. As long as they do NOT back track they will not solve this case. It has been solved for them by someone else - but, their assistance is needed on a couple of matters and one being a specific offer of protection to an individual for the information he holds.
Because JT with his "Liar Liar Story" has created a problem - we first have to erradicate - JT and this is in progress.
Therefore JT is only important if he is a red herring....meaning he was involved in some way and has been working as a deterent for all of these yrs. I think he is what he appears to be - an emotionally disturbed veteran and as his daughter said.
"He's a Braggart".
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 198
Cooper's was a crime of passion (probably) not a
crime of gain per se. Once you get that straight you
will be on your way to becoming ... a hamster.
Robert replies: Nice rant. Substance=near zero.
Not a crime of gain, 'per se'? Then how come he didn't ASK for pomegranates? (*laughs*) You are truly funny sometimes, I swear. If he was just happy to make people do his bidding and had no other agenda...he would have left the money on the plane.
rant?
arrogant dumbass Walter Mitty reply.
georger 198
QuoteQuoteI'm more interested in the technical parts. Like having the people show in detail how they get about the business of living/surviving. .
That is why I recommended Turnbull. His books are
full of technical details of how a hunt proceeds etc.
Details of social relations with neighboring tribes etc.
Turnbull would spend years living with a tribe to
learn the details - thats what separates his books
from .... 'Blevins Facebook adventures'? Good luck -
Facebook adventures? I beg to differ.
Try getting washed out into the Pacific Ocean for a few days.
Or being stuck up on Mount Rainier and having to figure a way out.
These are not 'Facebook Adventures,' sir. They are real life. MY life. Not that I'm proud of some of the decisions I made that put me in those situations, but I'm still alive and that says something. And if I ended up dead UP THERE or OUT THERE, this would be preferable to ending my days having meals fed to me or being hit by a bus.
I've been hiking and camping the Great Northwest since 1968 and continue to do so. It's no big deal.
One time I got stuck out in Death Valley, and I'll admit it wasn't one of my better moves. Luckily, beer and a pair of pliers saved my life.
Here's some advice: If you get lost in the Great Northwest, just settle in and make sure you can stay warm and have water nearby. Chances are you won't need food. It takes a long time to die of hunger and the Search and Rescue teams here are VERY good.
Mind your own damned business FOR A CHANGE!?
georger 198
QuoteDry helps in that stayin warm part.
Good night, Robert.
Good night, Georger.
You do realise the pressure issues have not been
resolved - I sit and wait for some genius to do it -
Far-a-flung .... and No, I did not bring Hominid here?
(How would I and when?)
Long ago I brought Bernoulli up but 377 and Ckret
said no, so I abandoned that idea. Still something
accounts for the pressure differential when doors are
opened and closed etc in an 'unpressurised' cabin.
Maybe Blevins has the answer?
Being one of the boys and such.
Lets see: pressure inside and outside the vessel the
same (at 10,000ft), traveling at 170 kts, must be
some kind of ram pressure involved, laminar flow
across the skin of that vessel, vacuum at certain
locations along the vessel (especially near the back
and underside back?), ..........
Blevins - HELP!
Farflung 0
georger continues his ham-handed deception with:
“You do realise the pressure issues have not been
resolved - I sit and wait for some genius to do it -
Far-a-flung .... and No, I did not bring Hominid here?
(How would I and when?)”
And they won’t be resolved by a person who has been exposed as some self proclaimed expert who is another Walter Mitty. You have seen the evidence which was sourced. Something you and Hominid appear to have a crippling allergy towards. You just want some hiney kissing and have no standards as to the source of that activity.
Attached are the communication which gave me a clue, even a raging clue that you may have invited Hominid to this site, gave him a screen name and other things that I’m sure the two of you would like to keep ‘buried’ between each other. Till after a nap then you will want to bury that clue again.
Hope this helps georger, an anxious nation awaits your pure and honest work to continue.
“You do realise the pressure issues have not been
resolved - I sit and wait for some genius to do it -
Far-a-flung .... and No, I did not bring Hominid here?
(How would I and when?)”
And they won’t be resolved by a person who has been exposed as some self proclaimed expert who is another Walter Mitty. You have seen the evidence which was sourced. Something you and Hominid appear to have a crippling allergy towards. You just want some hiney kissing and have no standards as to the source of that activity.
Attached are the communication which gave me a clue, even a raging clue that you may have invited Hominid to this site, gave him a screen name and other things that I’m sure the two of you would like to keep ‘buried’ between each other. Till after a nap then you will want to bury that clue again.
Hope this helps georger, an anxious nation awaits your pure and honest work to continue.
377 21
Jo wrote
By protection I assume you mean protection from prosecution. The FBI can't grant immunity. They are investigators not prosecutors. They can help secure an offer from the US Attorneys office but they can't grant it.
Check with a criminal defense lawyer and you'll likely find that the statute of limitations has run on everyone associated with Norjack except Cooper himself. Are you implying that Cooper is still alive? I doubt it. Any solution that rules out Duane is ignored.
If you've solved the case simply tell us what your evidence is. By tieing it to future cooperation you will solicit from the FBI, who will predictably ignore you, you leave yourself the usual out. Blaming the FBI has long been part of your MO.
Your story probably involves airplane salvage work. It probably involves someone who knew Duane and can connect him to this. It probably lacks any physical evidence linking anybody to Norjack. If I am wrong simply tell us what evidence you do have. Otherwise it's just another tease Jo. None of your teases have panned out. Not one. Why should we expect this one to be different?
Tell me why immunity is needed Jo? Cooper is the only Norjack criminal who needs it. The others, if there are any, are protected by the statute of limitations.
Ill bet the FBI won't be interested in your story Jo. So what's your next move if they ignore you? What is plan B?
377
QuoteNow that I have the information I really needed - it is a matter of getting the FBI to co-operate with my guys. As long as the FBI keeps their heads in the sand like an Ostrich - they will NOT solve this case. As long as they do NOT back track they will not solve this case. It has been solved for them by someone else - but, their assistance is needed on a couple of matters and one being a specific offer of protection to an individual for the information he holds.
By protection I assume you mean protection from prosecution. The FBI can't grant immunity. They are investigators not prosecutors. They can help secure an offer from the US Attorneys office but they can't grant it.
Check with a criminal defense lawyer and you'll likely find that the statute of limitations has run on everyone associated with Norjack except Cooper himself. Are you implying that Cooper is still alive? I doubt it. Any solution that rules out Duane is ignored.
If you've solved the case simply tell us what your evidence is. By tieing it to future cooperation you will solicit from the FBI, who will predictably ignore you, you leave yourself the usual out. Blaming the FBI has long been part of your MO.
Your story probably involves airplane salvage work. It probably involves someone who knew Duane and can connect him to this. It probably lacks any physical evidence linking anybody to Norjack. If I am wrong simply tell us what evidence you do have. Otherwise it's just another tease Jo. None of your teases have panned out. Not one. Why should we expect this one to be different?
Tell me why immunity is needed Jo? Cooper is the only Norjack criminal who needs it. The others, if there are any, are protected by the statute of limitations.
Ill bet the FBI won't be interested in your story Jo. So what's your next move if they ignore you? What is plan B?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Farflung 0
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155280/raging-clues
No, they aren’t boys because they are old as dirt. Two old codgers who think they can use the internet to mask their acts of ‘forbidden love’ while assuming no one has a clue.
Are there any ‘Hardly Boys’ who would be willing to help a younger whippersnapper with some calculating? Nothing too scary, just the stuff you can do with an abacus. No need for any of those store bought electronic counting books here.
Is this coming across as folksy or douchey? I’m fearin the latter may have become obvious.
No, they aren’t boys because they are old as dirt. Two old codgers who think they can use the internet to mask their acts of ‘forbidden love’ while assuming no one has a clue.
Are there any ‘Hardly Boys’ who would be willing to help a younger whippersnapper with some calculating? Nothing too scary, just the stuff you can do with an abacus. No need for any of those store bought electronic counting books here.
Is this coming across as folksy or douchey? I’m fearin the latter may have become obvious.
Quotegeorger continues his ham-handed deception with:
“You do realise the pressure issues have not been
resolved - I sit and wait for some genius to do it -
Far-a-flung .... and No, I did not bring Hominid here?
(How would I and when?)”
And they won’t be resolved by a person who has been exposed as some self proclaimed expert who is another Walter Mitty. You have seen the evidence which was sourced. Something you and Hominid appear to have a crippling allergy towards. You just want some hiney kissing and have no standards as to the source of that activity.
Attached are the communication which gave me a clue, even a raging clue that you may have invited Hominid to this site, gave him a screen name and other things that I’m sure the two of you would like to keep ‘buried’ between each other. Till after a nap then you will want to bury that clue again.
Hope this helps georger, an anxious nation awaits your pure and honest work to continue.
Not much gets past you - does it?
Someday before I expire I would like to meet the man behind the Avatar FarFlung.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteJo wrote
QuoteNow that I have the information I really needed - it is a matter of getting the FBI to co-operate with my guys. As long as the FBI keeps their heads in the sand like an Ostrich - they will NOT solve this case. As long as they do NOT back track they will not solve this case. It has been solved for them by someone else - but, their assistance is needed on a couple of matters and one being a specific offer of protection to an individual for the information he holds.
By protection I assume you mean protection from prosecution. The FBI can't grant immunity. They are investigators not prosecutors. They can help secure an offer from the US Attorneys office but they can't grant it.
Check with a criminal defense lawyer and you'll likely find that the statute of limitations has run on everyone associated with Norjack except Cooper himself. Are you implying that Cooper is still alive? I doubt it. Any solution that rules out Duane is ignored.
If you've solved the case simply tell us what your evidence is. By tieing it to future cooperation you will solicit from the FBI, who will predictably ignore you, you leave yourself the usual out. Blaming the FBI has long been part of your MO.
Your story probably involves airplane salvage work. It probably involves someone who knew Duane and can connect him to this. It probably lacks any physical evidence linking anybody to Norjack. If I am wrong simply tell us what evidence you do have. Otherwise it's just another tease Jo. None of your teases have panned out. Not one. Why should we expect this one to be different?
Tell me why immunity is needed Jo? Cooper is the only Norjack criminal who needs it. The others, if there are any, are protected by the statute of limitations.
Ill bet the FBI won't be interested in your story Jo. So what's your next move if they ignore you? What is plan B?
377
377, Your statements above do NOT apply. A criminal attorney can do NOTHING to help us and this process will have to go THRU the FBI...at their request. I am NOT about to risk ALL by letting anyone outside of the FBI have access to this information. A simple action on the part of the FBI is required.
This is NOT a tease - and even after Legal Counsel - we have NO way to proceed without the FBI's assistance. For me to proceed on my own would give the authorities (FBI) and Cooper Chasers - reason to discount the "find". After 15 yrs of hard work and sacrificing my health - this won't happen.
What is needed would be public anonymity to include that he could never be prosecuted for his past actions nor could the Govt impose any penalties (tax evasion) on him. I personally do NOT want him to face moral, legal or financial problems if he chooses to recant something told to the FBI yrs ago. I have NOT approached this - because it would be considered Tampering by the FBI - they are the ones who need to contact him and make the arrangements with him. I will NOT expose this man myself and NO he had zero to do with the skyjacking nor did he know Weber/Cooper during those yrs.
I also will NOT subject myself to a lawsuit by exposing this person.
Therefore it may become a story that can only be revealed during my final process on this earth. If the FBI choosed to let this go unsolved until that time - SHAME SHAME SHAME on them. Think how much money the government could save by solving this old Skyjacking.
There are 2 other subjects whose stories validate Weber/Cooper, but they also have reasons NOT to go public. One was only a child in 1971...and the other one only knows a family story told for ys. No one wants to be a part of a Marla Cooper Act - recalling memories of an 8 yr old.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Blah blah Jo backtrack
Blah blah blevins slamming Bruce blah exciting life blah blah
Boring and non value add.
What is interesting is Farflung at the moment...don't believe I have ever seen him really criticize anyone here before....glad to see his anger (too strong a word?) disdain (too weak a word?) hasn't got in the way of his humor
And 377 valiantly keeps on trying to reason with Jo...to no avail as usual. 377, dig us up another suspect 
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 21
Jo writes
Well then kiss your solved case claim goodbye Jo because the FBI will ignore you.
You wrote:"this process will have to go THRU the FBI...at their request."
Are you saying that the FBI is requesting that you work with them? I find this hard to believe. Please explain.
No prosecutor is going to offer immunity without first seeing all the cards your informant has. Your informant won't show the cards without first getting immunity. Its an endless loop.
Typically informants want immunity on everything they have ever done and the prosecutor MIGHT offer limited immunity covering only a narrow subset. Blanket immunity incuding tax evasion for your informant? Forget about it. Won't happen.
You also write: " ...he had zero to do with the skyjacking nor did he know Weber/Cooper during those yrs."
OK, so how does his information solve Norjack if he had nothing to do with it? How can his "recant" of something he told the FBI solve Nojack?
Does he have a hot $20, one that wasnt in the Tena Bar haul? If all he has is talk then don't waste your time Jo.
You said you had the case solved, but now you waffle. You say you need the FBI's help, which won't be forthcoming. You'll blame the FBI which is what you always do when you can't come up with hard evidence. Another endless loop.
If you have evidence produce it. The FBI isnt the only law enforcement agency you can go to. Local police would love to play a key role in IDing DB Cooper, instant fame. But first you'll have to convince them that your info is worth investigating, and that's where you typically stumble and fail.
I havent grown hostile to you Jo, I still am glad you are here. I just take you to task for overblown promises and endless teases about IDing Cooper.
So at least tell us this: if the FBI did what you seek, would it end up showing that Duane was Cooper? Is that the end of your Norjack story?
377
Quotewe have NO way to proceed without the FBI's assistance.
Well then kiss your solved case claim goodbye Jo because the FBI will ignore you.
You wrote:"this process will have to go THRU the FBI...at their request."
Are you saying that the FBI is requesting that you work with them? I find this hard to believe. Please explain.
No prosecutor is going to offer immunity without first seeing all the cards your informant has. Your informant won't show the cards without first getting immunity. Its an endless loop.
Typically informants want immunity on everything they have ever done and the prosecutor MIGHT offer limited immunity covering only a narrow subset. Blanket immunity incuding tax evasion for your informant? Forget about it. Won't happen.
You also write: " ...he had zero to do with the skyjacking nor did he know Weber/Cooper during those yrs."
OK, so how does his information solve Norjack if he had nothing to do with it? How can his "recant" of something he told the FBI solve Nojack?
Does he have a hot $20, one that wasnt in the Tena Bar haul? If all he has is talk then don't waste your time Jo.
You said you had the case solved, but now you waffle. You say you need the FBI's help, which won't be forthcoming. You'll blame the FBI which is what you always do when you can't come up with hard evidence. Another endless loop.
If you have evidence produce it. The FBI isnt the only law enforcement agency you can go to. Local police would love to play a key role in IDing DB Cooper, instant fame. But first you'll have to convince them that your info is worth investigating, and that's where you typically stumble and fail.
I havent grown hostile to you Jo, I still am glad you are here. I just take you to task for overblown promises and endless teases about IDing Cooper.
So at least tell us this: if the FBI did what you seek, would it end up showing that Duane was Cooper? Is that the end of your Norjack story?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Orange wrote:
Farflung has indeed sharpened his knife lately.
377
QuoteWhat is interesting is Farflung at the moment...don't believe I have ever seen him really criticize anyone here before
Farflung has indeed sharpened his knife lately.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Farflung 0
georger will respond with his typical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ff6ySJf_20&feature=related
The Amazing Farflungini, has spoken!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ff6ySJf_20&feature=related
The Amazing Farflungini, has spoken!
Jo You sacrificed your health to build a story about deceased husband that could not defend his self and continued to add and change those storys with false statements about seeing where the money was burried by duane.Funny part you knew if you clould get a relationship goig with people who were actually on the plane you might get one of them to agree with some of your lies. What ever hapened to all those that told you to leave them alone. You and your Tina Story baby picture and all. No Jo, no one destroyed your health, if anything, the only person to destroy your health was you and Father time. Or maybe this scam on the Cooper case you tried to pull off and never could. You still can't. Unless by some freak incident you can pass a polygraph test which you would never be able to do. Hell Jo, in your last posts in REF: to Tina you admit lieieng and scaming on your exploits of this case. In the past you have lied and admitted in on this foprum and others. You will never be able to pull this scam off Jo. There are to many people aware of your decietfull ways.Your false claims and scams. Oh seriously do you have pictures of your self from the 60/70s and you past aliasses. I think Im on to something that involves your composite and your profile. One last thing you honestly didn't believe anyone could actually believe your story that you were married to Duane for all those years and knew nothing about his past. Especially after reading some of your posts on this and other forums did you. Even Duanes best friend told me you knew all about his past , you know the Insurance salesman friend of his that lives in Geogia, the one you tried to convence to go a long with your story in the beginning in his statement he claims you knew all about Duanes past and even knew Duanes health would have prevented him from pulling off such a crime, Jo Mafia connections Cheese cake reciepes notes from Tina, Plane TICKETS you couldn't produce. How much money did you spend on eBay or at yard sells. Better yet you still haven't explained why you want to destroys Duanes name. Why Don't you report on your last husband I'm sure you can find a story to fit him or some way to implicate him into this Cooper story of your's. Don't forget now its very important you maintain your copyright if you actually have one.Jerry
pek771 0
Will the Ariel gathering turn into the worlds largest geriatric bar fight? Will those under 60 have to duke it out with a hand tied behind their back? Canes will be allowed?
EVickiW 0
QuoteQuoteJo wrote
QuoteNow that I have the information I really needed - it is a matter of getting the FBI to co-operate with my guys. As long as the FBI keeps their heads in the sand like an Ostrich - they will NOT solve this case. As long as they do NOT back track they will not solve this case. It has been solved for them by someone else - but, their assistance is needed on a couple of matters and one being a specific offer of protection to an individual for the information he holds.
By protection I assume you mean protection from prosecution. The FBI can't grant immunity. They are investigators not prosecutors. They can help secure an offer from the US Attorneys office but they can't grant it.
Check with a criminal defense lawyer and you'll likely find that the statute of limitations has run on everyone associated with Norjack except Cooper himself. Are you implying that Cooper is still alive? I doubt it. Any solution that rules out Duane is ignored.
If you've solved the case simply tell us what your evidence is. By tieing it to future cooperation you will solicit from the FBI, who will predictably ignore you, you leave yourself the usual out. Blaming the FBI has long been part of your MO.
Your story probably involves airplane salvage work. It probably involves someone who knew Duane and can connect him to this. It probably lacks any physical evidence linking anybody to Norjack. If I am wrong simply tell us what evidence you do have. Otherwise it's just another tease Jo. None of your teases have panned out. Not one. Why should we expect this one to be different?
Tell me why immunity is needed Jo? Cooper is the only Norjack criminal who needs it. The others, if there are any, are protected by the statute of limitations.
Ill bet the FBI won't be interested in your story Jo. So what's your next move if they ignore you? What is plan B?
377
377, Your statements above do NOT apply. A criminal attorney can do NOTHING to help us and this process will have to go THRU the FBI...at their request. I am NOT about to risk ALL by letting anyone outside of the FBI have access to this information. A simple action on the part of the FBI is required.
This is NOT a tease - and even after Legal Counsel - we have NO way to proceed without the FBI's assistance. For me to proceed on my own would give the authorities (FBI) and Cooper Chasers - reason to discount the "find". After 15 yrs of hard work and sacrificing my health - this won't happen.
What is needed would be public anonymity to include that he could never be prosecuted for his past actions nor could the Govt impose any penalties (tax evasion) on him. I personally do NOT want him to face moral, legal or financial problems if he chooses to recant something told to the FBI yrs ago. I have NOT approached this - because it would be considered Tampering by the FBI - they are the ones who need to contact him and make the arrangements with him. I will NOT expose this man myself and NO he had zero to do with the skyjacking nor did he know Weber/Cooper during those yrs.
I also will NOT subject myself to a lawsuit by exposing this person.
Therefore it may become a story that can only be revealed during my final process on this earth. If the FBI choosed to let this go unsolved until that time - SHAME SHAME SHAME on them. Think how much money the government could save by solving this old Skyjacking.
There are 2 other subjects whose stories validate Weber/Cooper, but they also have reasons NOT to go public. One was only a child in 1971...and the other one only knows a family story told for ys. No one wants to be a part of a Marla Cooper Act - recalling memories of an 8 yr old.
I am sure this person with Cooper information, who is in need of protection for his past indiscretions (crimes), is someone the FBI will undoubtedly trust as a forthcoming witness. Surely, he has new and exciting information that cannot be discussed here because this information is so reliable that others may want to discount it as not the truth because it is. However, he needs protection.
I agree with Orange1....blah.....blah......blah......
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
smokin99 0
QuoteWill the Ariel gathering turn into the worlds largest geriatric bar fight? Will those under 60 have to duke it out with a hand tied behind their back? Canes will be allowed?
lol...I'm hiding behind the bar (after first removing all the bottles from the shelves). No use in wasting good booze.
Besides we can always use it to disinfect the wounds.
Orange, I think the first clue that things were gonna go cattywonkas was when all those lower form hominid references were made. Especially when they kept being repeated (as in lower forms should read these sentences twice ---(course naturehominid could've been referring to me)
It's like when my mother-in-law comes over and the first thing she says (as she looks at my vintage collection of dust).....Oh I thought you were just working part-time now. Yeah, I can read between them lines....lol.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong....I'm still gonna rescue the booze.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Pek 771: The Ariel Store (DB Cooper Days) is a realy big get together, People from all over the world show up. There is never a fight over ones beliefs in this case.There is alot of questions, and many have a fantastic time.Donna has stated that this year she was not going to allow camera's, I don't know if this included local TV stations or not. Generally there's a band plenty to eat. Donna has a door drawiing for prizes. and you can pick up the latest books at the store counter. Children are allowed in the Store section.The local band plays music and they have a DB Cooper look a like contest. Jerry
EVickiW 0
QuoteQuoteWill the Ariel gathering turn into the worlds largest geriatric bar fight? Will those under 60 have to duke it out with a hand tied behind their back? Canes will be allowed?
lol...I'm hiding behind the bar (after first removing all the bottles from the shelves). No use in wasting good booze.
Besides we can always use it to disinfect the wounds.
Orange, I think the first clue that things were gonna go cattywonkas was when all those lower form hominid references were made. Especially when they kept being repeated (as in lower forms should read these sentences twice ---(course naturehominid could've been referring to me)It's like when my mother-in-law comes over and the first thing she says (as she looks at my vintage collection of dust).....Oh I thought you were just working part-time now.
Yeah, I can read between them lines....lol.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong....I'm still gonna rescue the booze.
I will help with those bottles and bring them out back. The bonfire will be roaring and we will continue to party there. All while the men take each other out. That is, after their nap.
Oh.... do not let on about the ability of the lower form to read between the lines. We do not want that secret getting out.
I do not think your perceptions are wrong....and YES by all means....rescue the booze! Especially the tequila!
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
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