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DB Cooper

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(edited)

Small update and late: ¬¬ After watching the weather reports for the last few days, Greg the Techie Guy and I have decided we WILL risk running the full-out test on all gear for the Cooper Party. That means the stereo and PA system, the generator, the big screen with media projector, the shower tents with their flush toilets and electric showers, and everything else including a public charging center for devices. (Some of this done solar.) And we will do it this coming weekend. I will be unavailable from Friday morning until late Sunday. We're not taking our smart phones for this one. I insisted. We would be too tempted to spend time on the internet when we should be working. No big deal, though. I still have an old flip phone that works, and we can reach the Forest Service rangers on the ham radios anyway. I have their frequencies programmed in, just for emergencies. 

So if you email me and don't get an answer until Monday, that's why. This gear test will be run in the Olympics. It's closer and easier for us. We need to know it all works. And if anything doesn't, how to fix it when we get home. I can't wait to watch the Director's Cut of Dark City on the big screen.

Anyone going past on the Forest Service road will wonder what the hell we're doing with all that stuff and only two people there LOL. Should be fun. If anyone drops in who happens to be cruising around up there, we check them out first to make sure they are nice and honest folk, and then maybe we let them in to have some fun. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

I have heard of email, and if I wanted a straight-up rejection that's what I would do.

There is always that possibility. On the other hand, assuming Bentz is telling the truth about what happened, a good reporter would gently remind him that three witnesses heard his statements, and you are simply trying to verify their story. I also remember suggesting to Bentz that instead of coming to me, he might want to go to the local media with his story. He said he came to me instead because I was the one supposedly investigating Christiansen. I don't know. Maybe I will give it a shot on my own, but not right now. Way too busy to deal with it. As soon as I check my mail and finish this cup of coffee, I have to start dragging out mass gear and totes from the garage and getting them ready to haul tomorrow morning. 

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(edited)

Crap. Had to cancel the gear test today. Weather report called for one more big snow in the mountains, down to 2,000 foot level tomorrow. Then it was supposed to get better by Saturday. But this means there will be leftover snow on the Forest Service roads in the Olympics for a few additional days before it melts out next week. Generally, the Olympics get less snow and more rain than the Cascades, but we decided not to take a chance on it. Will move the test to another weekend. :/

EDIT: Checked with Hoodsport, found out the road between the Skokomish River Valley and Lake Wynootchee is open to vehicles. No snow expected there. I am very familiar with this area. Greg and I decided we WILL run the gear test up there over the weekend, but we will leave on Saturday morning instead of today. No work scheduled until next Wednesday, so we have plenty of time. We will probably run these tests near Spider Lake and do a little fishing in our off time. (Picture below.) If you happen to be in the area, you can contact us on CB channel 14 or on Family Radio Service channel 1 (ham, basically). Frequency is 462.56250.

Things are getting serious now. I have received more than 30 responses from our ad on the Cooper Party, and additional apps and inquiries keep trickling in from Quora, the WordPress article link, Facebook, and the main AB site. I just knew we wouldn't be able to weasel out of this one. I told Greg to start preparing the budget, and for Gayla to begin planning the remainder of the shopping list. 

I figured interest would pick up as the date of the event got closer, and the weather began to improve. I was right. Still not a done deal yet. We still need to reach at least 250 official inquiries by June 5th. Right now, we are just over a hundred short of that mark. 

On another subject, I hear that Flight 305 co-pilot Bill Rataczak has bailed from Cooper Con this year. The official reason is he was concerned for his wife's health right now. I have no reason to disbelieve this, but I also have reason to believe there was another factor involved as well. For example, when you schedule guest speakers they have a tendency to research out the OTHER people who will be appearing with them. And if any of them drop by Bruce Smith's Mountain News website and get a whiff of the filthy comments being posted by what we call the Peanut Gallery, who are also members of the same website (Shutter's forum) supporting that convention...it could tend to turn certain people off. Especially the people you are trying to sell attendance tickets to at $21.50 a pop. Or even some of your scheduled guests. Some of these ding-dongs in the Peanut Gallery are even using the names of the same people scheduled to APPEAR at the convention. Real smart. Or maybe not. They say it is me and Adventure Books who are planning to trash the convention. We actually hope they succeed. It's good for them, and good for us as well. If they are trying to trash everything, they need no help from us. They are doing it on their own in spades. Get your act together. We have. 

My unsolicited advice is that Eric Ulis bring down the hammer on Bruce Smith (a scheduled speaker) before these Peanut Gallery idiots end up trashing the whole thing for Eric, and everybody else involved in that convention.

This is why I screen all comments to my Facebook, my YouTube videos, my WordPress, and everywhere else I personally host something on the internet. I do not allow hateful or attacking posts by trolls. Saves me a lot of headaches and keeps people honest. Allowing these things has a habit of backfiring on you. 

spiderlake.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I looked for Max Gunther’s book on Amazon and noticed that the prices for the used ones have gone up in price. I bought some a while back for around $5 to $10 each. Now those same ones are selling for $30 or more. Same on eBay. It would be great to see that book on Kindle or PDF. 

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(edited)
4 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I looked for Max Gunther’s book on Amazon and noticed that the prices for the used ones have gone up in price. I bought some a while back for around $5 to $10 each. Now those same ones are selling for $30 or more. Same on eBay. It would be great to see that book on Kindle or PDF. 

That's Amazon and eBay. Just go HERE. Have your debit/credit card ready. These deals don't last long. As far as a Kindle version, you have to find out who owns the rights to the book and contact them. If it's a publisher, so much the better. If they haven't printed any copies for years, they are usually happy to turn the rights over to another publisher. If it's someone's estate, that is trickier. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
On 4/8/2021 at 5:47 AM, Andrade1812 said:

I have heard of email, and if I wanted a straight-up rejection that's what I would do.

One of the things I have held back, and will continue to hold back, is the identity of the two witnesses besides Bentz. It's a control, a safeguard, and frankly...a way to verify the story if/when Jarvis is ever given the opportunity to respond. I have absolutely no doubt that Bentz is telling the truth, and that his story is accurate on what happened that day. 

The real fly in the buttermilk is whether Agent Jarvis was operating from information he was privy to somehow, or whether he just heard a rumor at the office. The Cooper case is known to virtually everyone who works at, or HAS worked at the FBI from coast-to-coast, mainly because it's famous as the only skyjacking they could never solve. Plus it's been on TV a bunch of times. 

The conundrum I faced with this story is simple. And one I have not been able to reconcile. If Jarvis was a rookie in the organization, or just your typical rank-and-file agent, I would tend to think he was just giving his opinion, or had no inside information regarding why the Bureau suddenly decided to close the case. But at the time he spoke to Bentz and his two friends, he had been with the FBI for about 15 years, had solved some pretty high-profile cases including a murder aboard a yacht down in the San Diego area. And at the same time, he's working as a Behavioral Profiler, not in the Salt Lake or Reno office or something, but at the Big Cheese in Quantico, Virginia. Obviously, he's working with and rubbing elbows with the higher-ups there. 

So...I was also faced with THAT. Maybe he WAS privy to some 'real' reason the case was closed. If he was, I thought...well, hell that would be the place with the people who would know. I wish Bentz would have gone to the Washington Post with this story instead of coming to me. What the heck could I do about it? Even if the whole thing is true, and the FBI really DID close the case because they concluded Cooper was Kenny Christiansen, how did that come to that idea? They would have had to do a real investigation on Kenny and company using the 54-page report we provided them in 2015. But if they did...why did no one hear about this alleged investigation? 

It goes around and around. But the bottom line is that either Jarvis knows something, or he was just taking a guess on why the case was closed. I couldn't tell you which is correct, and that's the truth. I just do not know. The only thing I am absolutely certain of is that Bentz and his two friends are very solid witnesses, and they are not lying. But the question is whether Jarvis was right, or was it a guess on his part? It didn't sound like a guess, and when he said these things it was less than six weeks after the FBI closed the case. It occurred to me that around Quantico, there might be talk about WHY the decision was made to close after 40+ years. There HAD to be. It would be natural. 

You see the problem? After a while, I came to the idea I probably would never find out anyway. I believe Bentz is telling the truth. I just don't know how to prove it. 

Oh, brother. I need a vacation. :/

On a side note, if EU or Shutter see this post...maybe some of you over there might want to tell Bruce Smith to delete a bunch of those Peanut Gallery posts (and start screening his own damn WordPress) before Smith ends up trashing Cooper Con. Just imagine if this continues and the convention is still seven months down the road. You could end up with scores of filthy comments sitting there for people to quote, see, or use to show that the convention is a farce and its biggest speaker is a hatemonger. I don't know where you guys ever got the idea I want that to happen. What is good for Cooper Con is also good for Adventure Books of Seattle...but you guys need to bring the hammer down on Smith and have him clean up his act before the Peanut Gallery (and we KNOW they are also members of the Cooper Forum) brings down the whole damn event. I know a lot of these comments Smith is allowing are directed at me personally, but they aren't hurting me. Books continue to sell, people still apply for the Cooper Party, and I am not receiving any nasty emails. But you guys better get it together over there and soon. That's my advice and you don't have to take it. If I were in charge of something like that Vancouver event, I would demand this, or I would tell Smith he's being dropped from the speaker list. 

Think about THIS: Before you start harping on about ME over at the Cooper Forum, do you know how EASY and SIMPLE it would be for someone to wait until September/October...and then send out to the venue (the theater) or the media...quotes from that website by the dozens showing Smith is nothing but a supporter of hate? Wake the heck UP and pull it together, folks. Stop blaming me for everything. You got a real problem child going in your midst. He's supposed to have the most comprehensive book on Cooper going...something I actually agree with by the way. He's one of the biggest speakers at the upcoming convention. You begin to wonder if he actually has any common sense. If you're really going for a sellout of 500 or however many seats EU wants to fill, you have to look non-juvenile to do it...especially when one of your biggest speakers is involved. Here I am trying to do this Cooper Party, and there YOU ARE doing the convention. Fine and dandy and A-OK with me. Get a handle on him before you end up looking out at 50-60 people in the audience instead of those 500 come November. Save the hatred for afterward and then I don't care what he allows on his site. As it is, AB of Seattle supports this convention in spirit. FOR NOW. And I would like nothing better than to promote it heavily on Quora, AB of Seattle main site, WordPress Cooper, at the Cooper Party itself, and elsewhere. But Smith is making it hard for us to do that, although we will not interfere no matter what he does. And we can definitely reach a great number of Cooper fans for you if we wish. Make us wish to do that. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Shutter says in part, over at the Cooper Forum:

Quote

'Rereading his (yours truly's) comment shows he did believe his wife is ill but adds in his own explanation of why he couldn't make it. he's taken advantage of the issue adding his reason for Bill backing out.

It would of been nice to have him at the conference but I fully understand his reasons and back what ever he does..'

Well, thank you for that. Yes, I believe Bill Rataczak's reason for having to skip this year's Cooper Con is perfectly valid and reasonable. I was trying to make an important point. And the point is that Bruce Smith is allowing really bad comments to the same article where he promotes the convention. And some of the names on the comments are identical to people who will be appearing at that same convention. 

We already know the remainder are members of the Cooper Forum. We KNOW this. 

Don't you guys see the problem? You are trying to pack the house, and Bruce Smith is going to end up providing fodder by the score for anyone who wants to discredit the convention. It makes him and the convention itself look bad. That is the only point I made. Look...I don't give a rat's behind about the personal nature of the comments. I have seen much worse. But I'm worried what will happen over the next few months if these filthy comments on one of the main websites (Mountain News) concerning Cooper keep piling up. 

You guys have it in your brain somehow that Adventure Books of Seattle does NOT support Cooper Con. That is not true. We do. But Bruce is making it difficult for us. If I were to post up a comprehensive article on the convention, promoting it for you at WordPress, the Quora Cooper space, encourage people at the Cooper Party to attend. and dedicate a page to it at the main AB of Seattle website...you might actually have a chance to pack the house as you all want to do. Trust me. I can reach hundreds of thousands of readers, if not more, if I chose to do this. We have 2,000 followers of the Quora Cooper space, and plenty of traffic at the other places. Plus...Quora could pick up on some of this stuff and send it out by email to thousands of OTHER users. It's like a snowball. My measly little article at Quora about Survival Myths reached almost a half million people. Not in my personal stats, but by sharing from other Quora users. And it's still seven months until the convention...plenty of time for organized promotion on a large scale. 

But you have to be reasonable here. My sincere belief is that what is good for Cooper Con is also good for Adventure Books of Seattle. We stand to gain if you succeed. But if all you plan to do is sit around all summer and talk smack about us...or allow some of your scheduled speakers to do the same...then how can we support you? This is not rocket science, folks. It's common sense. 

There are only two scheduled events this year, as far as I know, on Cooper. Yours and ours. We go first. We do want to help pave the way for you guys, but you're making it tough to do. Personally, I don't think Bruce Smith gives a flying f&$k if Eric loses money, or how many people are in the seats. All he wants to do is have a beer or two with Marla Cooper. I'm fine with that. But he also has responsibilities if he's going to be a major part of the convention. Eric should talk to him privately. The way things are going at Mountain News, all people will see is the trashy comments. One after another, after another, after another...etc. And then we will not be able to support the event. We won't make the slightest move to harm the event, but neither will we go out of our way to help you fill the seats by doing those things I mentioned. We will just toss the Cooper Party and move on. And every day it's looking like we will be finalizing that in June. 

Here is the bottom line:  Someone needs to bring Bruce to reality. My suggestion is he forget all those other articles where the Peanut Gallery was trashing, and simply delete all the bad comments from the article on the convention itself. And Shutter should tell his people at the Cooper Forum to knock off using their phony identities to make those comments. You aren't hurting me, you are hurting your chances for success at the convention this year. Bruce needs to be made aware that is what he is doing. After the convention, I couldn't care what the Peanut Gallery folks have to say. But if you want our support...as I said back there...you have to be reasonable. And don't let Bruce tell you he can't easily delete the comments. I have WordPress too. And all who comment to WordPress have their IP addresses and emails recorded. Those IP's can be matched right back to their owners at the Cooper Forum, even if they used a phony email address. Deleting comments can be done in seconds, as well. And if Bruce plans any more articles about the convention itself, he should keep the Peanut Gallery away from them for the duration. The day after the convention is over...well, I don't care what happens then. 

I have to leave in the early morning for the Olympics on the gear test, so I won't be able to respond until sometime Tuesday night. If you don't want our help, you can tell me that too and I won't bring this subject up again. But you guys have much more to lose than WE do. All we're doing is tossing a free party over the summer. You guys are trying to put on a serious event with an entrance fee. You need all the help you can friggin' get. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 2/4/2008 at 5:21 PM, Albert18 said:

If he came forward he could still be prosecuted. They basically indicted the name "Dan Cooper" so the statute of limitations don't apply. It is a weird legal technicality.

After all these years he is still a hot potato.

It would be like prosecuting Frank Morris and the Anglin bros from Alcatraz.  The guy would be in his 90's pretty much for sure unless they overestimated his age?  The FBI has already admitted defeat in this one. Not Alcatraz.  I think its just stupid for them to not grant immunity at this point to find out possibly if they are dead or alive and even if they are, there is no certainty they would come forward?  But at least give them immunity.  Its probably a longshot that DB Cooper is alive.  But its sure possible. 

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(edited)

Lots of problems with the DNA..

It is partial, exclude only, it isn't confirmed to be Cooper and there were multiple profiles. Due to this, that partial DNA is useless to both include or exclude a suspect.

 

However,

Sheridan Peterson was DNA tested in 2004.

Here, in 2008, The Deputy Assistant Director stated..

"To date, only a few of the original suspect pool have been included in the DNA Project for comparison with negatives."

Essentially, in 2008, all suspect DNA testing was negative.

 

partialdna.jpeg.5dd44dee4fe4663478a5b1a7a1259f5b.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Robert B sometimes says that he thinks there might be a 'coverup' regarding the Amboy chute, because admitting that it was Cooper's would prove that he survived the jump, because the chute was separated from the harness/container. But that document indicates that the kids who found it cut the lines because the rest of it was 'deeply imbedded' into the ground, and then they were unable to re-locate the find spot. So the container might well have been there.

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A technical issue - When I log into this site, in the 'notifications' thing, it often says "so-and-so, so-and-so, 'and Guest' commented on DB Cooper". Today it says that Flyjack "and Para-DZ" commented. I don't see a comment from 'Para-DZ', and I've never seen a comment from 'Guest'. Anyone know what's up with that?

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28 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

A technical issue - When I log into this site, in the 'notifications' thing, it often says "so-and-so, so-and-so, 'and Guest' commented on DB Cooper". Today it says that Flyjack "and Para-DZ" commented. I don't see a comment from 'Para-DZ', and I've never seen a comment from 'Guest'. Anyone know what's up with that?

I get that as well..

I assume it is the new forum moderation, new member posts are screened.

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On 4/12/2021 at 1:58 PM, dudeman17 said:

Robert B sometimes says that he thinks there might be a 'coverup' regarding the Amboy chute, because admitting that it was Cooper's would prove that he survived the jump, because the chute was separated from the harness/container. But that document indicates that the kids who found it cut the lines because the rest of it was 'deeply imbedded' into the ground, and then they were unable to re-locate the find spot. So the container might well have been there.

Well, somebody found the spot because the FBI was known to do a bit of digging there. The container was not found. Two very good witnesses at the 2012 Ariel party told me what happened. They lived right next door to the people who owned the property. The whole investigation just smells to high heaven. First, the FBI says it's the right size, right color, and in the right spot. Next they say they are bringing in chute experts, but only consulted them by phone. No one besides FBI personnel and Earl Cossey were allowed to examine it. Then Cossey tells the press he knows it isn't Cooper's because it was made of silk, and Cooper's chutes were nylon. But the chute ISN'T silk. You can see the crosshatch pattern in blow ups. A Bic lighter does an easy test between silk and nylon, and silk is biodegradable anyway. Tom Kaye, the same guy whose team was allowed to examine practically all the other physical evidence in the Cooper case...has a standing offer to examine the chute. So far, no joy for him. In the end, the FBI doesn't even give a minimum reason WHY they dismissed it. 'By a preponderance of the evidence...' is all anyone ever got out of them. My question would be, "Oh, yeah? What evidence?" No answer to that either. More than a dozen years later, if you ask them about that chute, they still call it evidence. I had to practically drag it out of them that they only consulted their so-called experts by phone, and no one was allowed to examine it physically. The whole thing from start to end...and even into today...is WEIRD. 

Returned from the gear test trip to the Olympics this afternoon. Our solar panel system worked great, the generator powered everything we hooked up to it, including the stereo, the PA system, and the night lights. It's dual-fuel, but we're running it strictly on propane tanks because it's safer, greener, and they seem to last longer anyway. A bunch of other gear checked out fine as well. Apps to attend the Cooper Party continue to come in, even when we were gone. It's looking more like we will finalize the event after June 5th...maybe...at least a better possibility than I thought our chances were six weeks ago.

Basically, we're going to take down all the webpages and other stuff as soon as we are 100% convinced that an absolute minimum of 100 people will actually show up. We're going on the idea that maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the folks who apply to attend will actually show up, so we're looking for somewhere between 200-300 serious inquiries where people answer the return message. (We message everybody that applies, to see if they're serious or not. If they don't answer our message, we assume they aren't that interested and drop them from the email lists.) 

There has been one change. We're not going to make the PDF with the maps and contact information, event information etc public. We were going to do this on the same day we head up there to set everything up. We decided against that for security reasons, mainly because I have to give out some cell phone numbers, etc. The PDF will only go out to the press in a release, and to the people who apply before June 5th, or manage to get on the email list after that time, if the event is finalized and Greg budgets it. The truth is that if we let this thing get TOO big, we won't be able to handle it. I already know we will get some drop ins from people wandering the hills up there looking for a camping spot, as they do up there in summer. And I think 150 people is going to be our manageable limit. (They didn't even get that many people showing up at the Ariel parties. That was around 100 people. I counted heads in 2012.)

It was a good test trip. We had a lot of fun along the way. Weather was cold at night, but fortunately no rain. I think we're good on all the hard gear and necessary equipment now, except I need to pick up a couple of solar panel stands from Renogy. We found out just sitting them on the ground or against a tree works...but not too well. 

Since I got no answers in my email box regarding whether or not the Vancouver convention wants our support, I will assume that they feel they can go without it. Our position on it is completely neutral. We will do nothing to get in their way, and hope they succeed and sell out the seats. But we will not advertise for them. If they want that....they will have to arrange this with us privately. I tell people sometimes I don't go where I'm not wanted. B) 

Recent quote by Shutter over at the Cooper Forum regarding the Ariel Store: (My apologies, but I just HAD to respond to this one.)

Quote

'Sadly, it appears to be a piece of history we must let go...at least location wise. Donna & Bryan will live on through our thoughts and comments as the years pass. maybe, they will come out of nowhere and fix it up. the odds of that are low and from a business stand point is not worth the investment.

R.I.P. Bryan and Donna.....'

Excuse me, but this is a load of baloney. You personally stood against our effort in 2012 to raise money to 'Restore the Store,' and allowed nasty comments about those efforts right up to the last day prior to our fundraising party there. Bruce Smith, one of your more prolific posters, even used Bryan's obituary to try selling his book at Amazon. That is absolutely pathetic. Fortunately, you failed in your negativity for the most part. Bryan walked away with at least $2,500 we raised for him, plus whatever came through PayPal on the computers we set up inside the store. What did you and your forum friends ever do for Bryan and the store except offer lip service?

The answer is...NOTHING. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Some clarifications

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(edited)

Correction: The fundraiser was done in 2016, not 2012. 

And here's a REAL tribute to Bryan Woodruff and Dona Elliot, one that actually tells the truth about things. 

Even though it hardly makes any sense, goes way too fast, and is totally crazy, this is still my favorite video I ever created on Cooper. No worries. We will do better in July I hope. The cover image is my high school girlfriend Georgia on the left, and skyjacker Cathy Kerkow on the right. Like Cooper, she was never caught. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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I see a lot of arguing going on about the DNA angle on the Cooper case over at Shutter's forum.

It's a big waste of time for three reasons. 

1) The FBI isn't going to release their partial results from the tie to anybody. So no matter whose DNA you have from whatever suspect or his brother, you have nothing to compare it to. 

2) The cost of doing this comparison, even if you had the FBI's partial profile, is prohibitive. Two different companies in Seattle told me that the depth and gravity of what needs to be done with a suspect's DNA in order to do a comparison with the partial profile runs into five figures. 

3) Two different Seattle FBI agents have told me at two different times that no more comparisons to possible suspects' DNA will be done. Mainly because it costs so much, even for them, and basically told me they have more important things to do with the budget they have now. 

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On 4/4/2021 at 12:01 AM, DFS346 said:

Here's a third calibration of KA3-9 based on the assumption that the page from the Facial Identification Catalog was standard US letter size

The FBI has assigned a FOIA number to my request for page KA-3 of the Facial Identification Catalog of 1971 (which includes image KA3-9). They had rejected a previous FOIA request, more broadly defined. Will post any further responses from the FBI.

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(edited)
On 4/12/2021 at 2:13 PM, dudeman17 said:

A technical issue - When I log into this site, in the 'notifications' thing, it often says "so-and-so, so-and-so, 'and Guest' commented on DB Cooper". Today it says that Flyjack "and Para-DZ" commented. I don't see a comment from 'Para-DZ', and I've never seen a comment from 'Guest'. Anyone know what's up with that?

If you get the notifications, but the post never appears...it (probably) means the post was rejected. Some time ago, there was a serious porn attack on the Cooper thread, and it was later discovered this was being done by a really weird Cooper investigator named Derek, who is from Alabama. I assisted DZ (well, Greg the Techie Guy actually) in permanently ridding Dropzone of him. He was posting up the worst porn you ever saw...sometimes twenty posts at a time. 

Derek is also the reason why Dropzone now reviews first posts done by people who sign up to post here. One time, Derek tried coming back and made one or two harmless posts that were allowed through. Then he returned to the porn attacks. THEN they banned his IP address, from what I heard. Anyway Dudeman...that's how the present screening system came to be at DZ. 

And by the way, don't believe all that crap you may read about me over at Shutter's forum, or even Bruce Smith's Mountain News commenting section for that matter. (All done by members of Shutter's forum as well.)

It's a pack of lies. Either stand up for the truth on issues, or cower in the corner anonymously as they do.
I choose to stand up, and that's the thing they hate about me the most. B) They've pulled every dirty trick, told every lie possible, even created special pages on that Cooper website. Nothing they did ever worked because in the end, people have a way of sniffing out what's right, and what isn't.

And because of all these things, I plan to teach them a lesson in manners, which they sorely need. To some degree, we (staff at AB of Seattle) already have. They just don't realize it. 

This is nothing new for me. I've always been like that. Either you present it to folks straight and do what is right, or don't bother. This makes it easier to accept the idea that you may have some character, after all. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Citizen sleuths website server not responding.

Maybe temporary?

https://citizensleuths.com

It's back up now. Maybe they were editing the site. 

I see over at the Cooper Forum they are still going on and on and ON about the DNA evidence. 

They still don't get it. 

You can name all the possible tests and gear you wish, but without the FBI's actual results of their tie test, you are wasting your time and effort. Until you can figure out a way to convince the FBI to release their test results...you are spinning your tires at the intersection and burning rubber until the wheels fall off. ¬¬ Can't do a thing, can't speculate, can't test your possible suspect(s). It's as simple as that. 

If the FBI would release those results, I would try to convince some media outlet to test Kenny's brother's DNA sample, which we have kept carefully sealed and stored for some years now. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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