skyjack71 0 #42201 August 15, 2013 CChargerI agree that the tie probably will not, in and of itself, lead to IDing Coop. However, I think it can be very valuable in providing clues that, when placed in context and paired with other facts, may point to or eliminate certain people. Also, in reference to contamination, that particular brand was only available for the 12 months prior to the crime. It bore signatures of use by a heavy chain smoker which we know Coop was. All signs point to the most likely scenario being that it was Coop's tie. How the HELL would on deduce Cooper (not Coop) was a heavy CHAIN SMOKER. Stress causing one to smoke more and I would have done the same thing Cooper did. By the way 8 smokes in 4 hour did NOT make Cooper a chain smoker. He was under stress and needed to keep his hands busy - so as not to touch things and he needed to stay alert. Truck driver often took medication if the had an overnight run. Three of my uncles where long haul truck drivers who rarely smoked except when the did over night hauls...it does help to keep the system alert. Look at the times and look at what Cooper was doing. There were on 2 whiskey bottles place in their drink cup. One Cooper spilled and the other he evidently drank. He wipe them off because they FOUND NO prints on them. Tina told the searcher where she put the cups and they FBI found them and they were tested. This comes from TOSAW who actually had the only extensive inteview ever given by Tina other than the FBI. With Tosaw she was not under the stress she was right after the incident.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #42202 August 15, 2013 skyjack71***I agree that the tie probably will not, in and of itself, lead to IDing Coop. However, I think it can be very valuable in providing clues that, when placed in context and paired with other facts, may point to or eliminate certain people. Also, in reference to contamination, that particular brand was only available for the 12 months prior to the crime. It bore signatures of use by a heavy chain smoker which we know Coop was. All signs point to the most likely scenario being that it was Coop's tie. WE do NOT KNOW if Cooper was a HEAVY smoker. I do NOT remember reading a statement his fingers were yellowed from smoking. Maybe he had airplane glue on his finger tips and why the prints are not viable to identify Cooper! To put Jo Weber's post in the proper perspective, in 17+ years of claiming that Duane Weber was Cooper, Jo has not been able to come up with a single piece of evidence to support her claims. Jo cannot put Duane in the northwest part of the country in 1971. Jo cannot put Duane in a parachute at any time. Jo cannot put Duane on, or even close to, the hijacked airliner. Jo cannot prove that Duane wasn't in jail on the date of the hijacking. Nevertheless, Jo continues to claim that Duane was Cooper and give lectures to other posters who make statements that are more believable than her own. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42203 August 15, 2013 CCharger1. The FBI bulletin of the crime said he was a "heavy smoker of Raleigh filter tip cigarettes". 2. Tina Mucklow described Coop as a "chain smoker". 3.His fingers bore tobacco stains indicative of habitual cigarette use. 4. He smoked 8 cigarettes in 5 hours. 5. His tie bore signatures of used matches most likely used to regularly light tobacco. Based on these facts we can safely conclude Coop was a regular cigarette smoker. With this said, it should be noted that both stewardesses on the flight described Coop as "child-like" when the money was delivered and even said he "jumped up and down". Strikes me as odd behavior, but when paired with the amphetamine use, it sounds logical. Jo STATES: 1. 8 smokes under the circumstances is NOT a lot of cigarettes and does not make Cooper a chain smoker. 2. Where did YOU find a statement thathat Tina said Cooper was a chain smoker - a chain smoker would have smoked more than 8 cigarrettes in 4 hours. 3. Yes, Tina did say that Cooper was giddy when the money arrived and as inspected the package, offered the stewardess a tip...NO mention has ever been made of COOPER jumping up and down. WHERE the HELL are you getting all of these statements - SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO CREATE MORE CHAOS AND DISTORT THE FACTS EVEN MORE THAN THEY ARE. Have U actually spoke with Tina and Florence - THERE are and have been known interviews where they stated the certain thing, but NOTHING about jumping up and down. You ARE a fabricator of myths. If these things were actually said - state date and time and person doing the interview and what publication it appear in! Until you make the above information public then STOP creating MYTHS. This case already had to many myths - and the last thing it needs is a CREATOR of MORE MYTHS! You are a writer not just someone interested in helping solve the case. I can smell a GALEN COOK a mile away! A fabricator of facts!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42204 August 15, 2013 Quote I'm not sure if Cooper being a smoker is relevant either. Someone asked for evidence of him being a smoker and I supplied it. However, it does help to build a profile of the man I believe. I do not have links to these particular sources. Bruce A. Smith provided some of them. I like Bruce but he has a way of going overboard on things. NONE of us like what he did with Tina and then her brother in-law and another relative on the opposite side of the U.S. He is after all a writer and sometimes take TOO many liberaties.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42205 August 15, 2013 Big BIG difference between tobacco stained finger and YELLOW NAIL SYNDROME. Seriously DOUBT the crew reported that Cooper had YELLOW NAILS. No mention was made of his coughing. You have taken this from stained fingers to YELLOW NAILS! THIS is just too much and IT is NOT funny! You are becoming a FABRICATOR of things that did not and are not part of the Cooper case.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42206 August 15, 2013 CChargerThis is from the website of the EPA... "Diseases of the lung (pleural diseases) have been associated with chronic (long-term) occupational exposure of titanium tetrachloride in titanium metal production workers. Chronic inhalation exposure may result in upper respiratory tract irritation, chronic bronchitis, cough, bronchoconstriction, wheezing, chemical pneumonitis, or pulmonary edema in humans." Clearly, we are making leaps here. But we know Coop had Benzedrine. We know Benzedrine is used to treat respiratory ailments. There is evidence that Coop worked around titanium, perhaps metal fabrication or production. Discolored fingers aside, perhaps, Coop was suffering from titanium exposure and was prescribed Benzedrine. WE DO NOT KNOW THAT COOPER HAD BENZEDDRINE - JUST THAT HE MADE A STATEMENT TO THE STEWARDESS WHEN HE WAS TOLD IT HAD BEEN A LONG DAY FOR THE PILOTS AND THE CREW! NO ONE INDICATED COOPER HAD ANY BREATHING PROBLEMS OR EXHIBITED ANY FORM OF A LUNG ILLNESS! STOP fabricating facts!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42207 August 15, 2013 CChargerAbsolutely. I think the most interesting thing Coop said was, "I don't have a grudge against your airline, miss. I just have a grudge." A grudge against whom? Against what? He is motivated by something beyond money. That is why DB Cooper appeals to me and so many others. He wasn't just a common criminal. He was an Uncommon criminal. Yea, Cooper had a grudge. Promises made to him that were NOT kept and the fact he had just been diagnosed with the same disease his mother had die of! He did NOT expect to be alive in 5 yrs and he could not afford the medical treatment. He would have been living on the streets and in homeless shelters. He did NOT care if he died...and if he survived then the system would provide him with what he was used to - medical treatment, food and a bed in a cell. It was actually all he knew. He had spent all of his formative yrs and most of his adult life in a prison. He survived and then he changed his life - it was a gradual process as medical treatment for the disease became more accessible and he ended up staying out of prison and with GOOD health insurance. He would live for 23 plus yrs. Yet, in 1971 he felt he was a dead man walking! He spent the rest of his life feeling like a very very LUCKY man and even turned down being put on the kidney transplant list in 1990. He toured the facility in Birmingham when he went for evaluation to be put on the list - and then told the doctor "I cannot take from these young people their chance of leading a normal life." He accepted the fact in 1989 that he had less than 5 yrs to live. It was in 1990 after starting dialysis he went to a place where he retrived some things and set about living what was left of his life - and making sure that others were provided for. He had put away something to be used when those days came. In 1990 when he went on the machine he made a trip to Omaha and Kansas and retrive the funds he had set aside....He made a huge purchase of mechandise for the store he had started and even though the business did NOT seem to thrive - we never did without. When he died he had less than 500 dollars in his personal/business account. He asked that I stop by the bank on the way to the hospital and then he handed me what he had left in his personal acct. I had money in our joint acct and until a month before he died - I had a good income. During that last month I could not take care of him and also do my job justice...and my boss was aware of this. He had been doing a lot of my job for about 2 months...to cover for my time taking care of Duane. I allowed him to dismiss me for low production due to my husband health so that I would still have some income. These people really treated me right...I won't go into detailsl, but I will never forget the compassion they showed for the predicament I was in. I still had income, the time to spend with my husband before he died and a sizeable unexpected policy the company provided for Duane....I did NOT know anything about it until my boss told me. I frankly always believed it was a GIFT! During those last few yrs we had kept our monies separate because Duane wanted to do so....because of the shop. The shop I will always believe was a cover for the monies he had put away, because I never saw a lot of merchandise move. It was a place for him to go and to feel useful.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #42208 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsRobert99 says in part: Quote'Presumably, Cooper was not dumb enough to tie the briefcase (supposedly containing a bomb) to the parachute. Just tying a 22 pound bag of money to his waist or the parachute was dumb enough. It would be aerodynamically destabilizing, it is an absolute given that Cooper would tumble upon leaving the stairs, and he may have been injured in leaving the stairs. And "it was a dark and stormy night", which means that Cooper was basically jumping into a black hole and would be unable to stabilize himself even if he had a reasonable amount of skydiving experience, and there is no indication that he did. Cooper could have been on the ground in as little as 40 seconds and not more than 60 seconds if he didn't pull the ripcord. If this was his first actual jump, and there are indications that it was, he may well not have realized how short 40 seconds can be. Added to the other stresses he was under, it may well be that Cooper could not find the ripcord in the darkness or just simply forgot to pull it. In addition, there are some reports that the ripcord on this particular parachute had been modified in some unknown manner (no one has been able to pin this down exactly) that made it even more difficult to pull. In any event, Cooper could have impacted on solid ground in the vicinity of Tena Bar...' Robert, you make a LOT of assumptions with those statements. First, you don't know WHEN Cooper might have tried the ripcord. Maybe he did it right off the stairs, as 377 and I have suggested. Rataczak has already stated that the stairs only had 24-36" of headroom on their initial opening, which means either Cooper leaned really far over to squeeze through that opening, or he backed down the stairs. Carrying the load he did, I favor the back-down theory. As I've said previously, if you go FORWARD and those stairs take a sudden drop from your weight, you could easily go head-over-heels and right off the end. Two chutes, a moneybag, a briefcase. Big load. And who says it was a 'dark and stormy night'? Dark yes, stormy no. Cold, definitely yes. And how do you figure that 305 was a few miles WEST of the Interstate 5 freeway when it passed by Tina Bar? You have no evidence showing that. You may have some evidence that the flight was not exactly where it was shown on the flight map at certain times, but only in a basically north-south direction, not east or west. You keep trying to move the flight west somehow, in order to explain the Tina Bar money. You also don't explain how...if Cooper impacted on ground as you say...why no one has found anything at or around Tina Bar except approximately three bundles of the ransom. You have an entire scenario cooked up here, but it relies on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1) Cooper died in the jump. 2) The flight was west of the freeway by miles. The first is unknown and unproven, and frankly...not supported by the slightest shred of evidence. The second is simply unproven. I've attached a demo picture that may not be completely realistic, but does show that sometimes people DO secure things around their waist when jumping, and survive.Quote So, your assumptions are better than Hobart's? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42209 August 15, 2013 georgerWhen unique events are coterminous they quite aften are related. Unique tie ~ unique tie cocktail ~ hijacking ~ found on the hijacker's seat (all in the same time frame). Its sort of like, a meteor strike. Maybe he left a calling card to identify 'the guy with the grudge who now has $200k of their money'. He didn't make any effort to hide his finger prints, his saliva on the butts & glass, etc etc. And he plans to travel on foot after landing to somewhere. Even the amount of money he demanded is reasonable. This is a guy who is acting out of purpose. He has reasons and a personal history. Damn RIGHT on that ONE! Cooper did survive and in 1971 Weber was doing laps morning and evening and he was going to AL on the wkends with a man in a van and with dark hair. The wife told me he asked her to buy him a couple of Dickie jumpsuits. He told her it had something to do with the work he was doing in AL on the weekends. Yet, he was supposedly during the wk selling insurance, but the 1971 taxes showed barely any income for Weber. This is all a puzzle to me - when you look at the taxes 1969, 1970, 1971 and then 1972. It pretty much tells a story - it is posted in this thread.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42210 August 15, 2013 georger From my understanding, the interphone was not used and all communications between cockpit and cooper were through hand delivered notes sent via stewardess. Is this true? Quote Not true. Read the Transcript. Tina relayed messages for him via the interphone - on at least one ocassion he used the interphone himself. Would the crew recognise his voice if they heard it again? Yes. There may even be a recording(s) of his voice! He didn't hide his voice! There is one old rumor that Himmelsbach listened to a recording of Cooper, other agents also, and this is the basis for H saying Cooper 'used filthy language and was profane'. Tosaw asked about this rumor but apparently could not get it confirmed ... there is no mention of it in his book! If that is TRUE, WHY in the HELL did the FBI not release the tape to the TV. If they had a recording all of these yr and did NOT release it - that sound like dereliction of responsibility or a COVER-UP. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42211 August 15, 2013 georger From my understanding, the interphone was not used and all communications between cockpit and cooper were through hand delivered notes sent via stewardess. Is this true? Quote Not true. Read the Transcript. Tina relayed messages for him via the interphone - on at least one ocassion he used the interphone himself. Would the crew recognise his voice if they heard it again? Yes. There may even be a recording(s) of his voice! He didn't hide his voice! There is one old rumor that Himmelsbach listened to a recording of Cooper, other agents also, and this is the basis for H saying Cooper 'used filthy language and was profane'. Tosaw asked about this rumor but apparently could not get it confirmed ... there is no mention of it in his book! Strange he said that as it contradicts what the witnesses said. They said he would polite and well mannered. He did use some choice words such as "Come on - Let's get this ------- show on the road" Perhaps that is what Mr. H is referring to. First I ever heard of there being any recordings. Language like that being said out loud when the passengers were on board could have caused other passengers to panic and/or attack him. Cooper had a strong voice, but I am sure he would NOT have raised it until the passengers where gone. THEN he would have made his demands known in that kind of terminology. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #42212 August 15, 2013 Blevins writes: Robert, you make a LOT of assumptions with those statements. First, you don't know WHEN Cooper might have tried the ripcord. Maybe he did it right off the stairs, as 377 and I have suggested. Rataczak has already stated that the stairs only had 24-36" of headroom on their initial opening, which means either Cooper leaned really far over to squeeze through that opening, or he backed down the stairs. Carrying the load he did, I favor the back-down theory. As I've said previously, if you go FORWARD and those stairs take a sudden drop from your weight, you could easily go head-over-heels and right off the end. Two chutes, a moneybag, a briefcase. Big load. R99 replies: Blevins you need to consider your own assumptions. What makes you so sure he took the brief case with him? As a number of people on this thread have explained to you numerous times, as Cooper moved further down the stairs the opening between the bottom of the stairs and the fuselage would increase. Consequently, Cooper did not jump through the small opening you imply above. Further, it doesn't make any difference whether Cooper backed down the stairs or not. There is no way that he could avoid tumbling once he was off the stairs. This has also been explained numerous times. Blevins writes: And who says it was a 'dark and stormy night'? Dark yes, stormy no. Cold, definitely yes. R99 replies: Rataczak, whom you quote approvingly above, says it was stormy. Why don't you believe him this time? Blevins writes: And how do you figure that 305 was a few miles WEST of the Interstate 5 freeway when it passed by Tina Bar? You have no evidence showing that. You may have some evidence that the flight was not exactly where it was shown on the flight map at certain times, but only in a basically north-south direction, not east or west. R99 replies: Blevins, did you read the post to which you are responding? Obviously not. Blevins writes: You keep trying to move the flight west somehow, in order to explain the Tina Bar money. You also don't explain how...if Cooper impacted on ground as you say...why no one has found anything at or around Tina Bar except approximately three bundles of the ransom. R99 replies: Blevins, you HAVE to explain how the money arrived at Tena Bar. That the money arrived at Tena Bar is a FACT not a THEORY. The rest of your comment above was discussed in the post to which you responded. Maybe you should read it. Blevins writes: You have an entire scenario cooked up here, but it relies on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1) Cooper died in the jump. 2) The flight was west of the freeway by miles. The first is unknown and unproven, and frankly...not supported by the slightest shred of evidence. The second is simply unproven. R99 replies: Blevins, you are also relying on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1. Cooper survived the jump. 2. The flight was east of the freeway by miles. The rest of your comments above apply to your own assumptions also. But you have no explanation at all for how the money arrived at Tena Bar. Blevins writes: I've attached a demo picture that may not be completely realistic, but does show that sometimes people DO secure things around their waist when jumping, and survive. R99 replies: People have also fallen from great heights, thousands of feet, without parachutes and survived. But if the money bag was not securely and snugly tied to Cooper or his parachute harness it would complicate the dynamics of his tumbling, and there is no way he can avoid tumbling. If the money bag was at the end of a several foot cord, you would have a "earth - moon" dynamical system and not just a single body, or "earth", system. Perhaps you could restrain from lecturing Tom Kaye and Georger long enough to ask them to explain the differences in these two system to you. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #42213 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsI'm not going to quote over your entire post, but here's a check-in pass for you at the Reality Hotel: The FBI says one thing. NWA team says one thing. The ATC's say one thing. And they came to a conclusion and a map. You say another. That means you have to provide at least SOME proof that they were wrong on all that before you start changing history. Shall I direct you to the flight maps? I won't, because I know you've seen them. You have repeatedly denied attempting to move Flight 305 to the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway in your attempt to explain the Tina Bar money. I can point to your posted denials. And yet here you are again with that. What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question. At what point Cooper jumped on a north-south line is definitely debatable, i.e. anywhere along the FBI's stated route. The problem is, you keep trying to shove that jet much farther west without proof, simply to explain the money. You say Cooper ground-impacted. But you have no body, no chutes, no briefcase, no moneybag, no other money. And you think he did it at Tina Bar. First prove the flight path was west of the freeway north of Vancouver before you make that assumption, or give it up. What you have is nothing more than a theory. Think about it...without proof you are saying that you are smarter than ATC, the FBI, and Paul Soderlind's NWA team. I'm not buying it, not even close, unless you are ready to present hard evidence they were all wrong. I'm not a pilot, but even I know that if all of those people who worked that map using radar were so stupid as to put the flight off by miles...jets would be crashing into each other midair all the time. Either PROVE Flight 305 was west of the Interstate near Tina Bar, or stop flogging a dead horse. Blevins, It is time for you to do your own check-in at the Reality Hotel. Your basically accept on "faith" (and I don't mean religious faith) that people who produce something that agrees with what you want are correct? Where is your "proof" that their work is correct? Obviously, you don't feel that you need to know how they arrived at their conclusions. Anything that supports your theory that Cooper (aka as KC) survived and held on to enough money to buy some real estate and make loans to a friend is necessary to back up your book's story line. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42214 August 15, 2013 Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane in the northwest part of the country in 1971. Jo states: Not in 1971 but before that I CAN and I HAVE! ===================== Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane in a parachute at any time. Jo States: Do you want to BET on that? ======================= Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane on, or even close to, the hijacked airliner. Jo States: That is what CE told me I had to do! ======================== Robert stated: Jo cannot prove that Duane wasn't in jail on the date of the hijacking. Jo States: Well, that ONE I can prove. Shows you and JT are talking. JT tried to claim that in this thread many yrs ago. I did a lot of research and contacted the places he was supposedly in jail per JT. Duane Weber nor his alias was in any jail, or prison or even arrested in GA, AL or Fl during that time frame. The only incident was his wife driving her car thru the front of the Admiral Bimbo - and I do not remember the time frame now but I have the info. I still have contacts - family and friend of mine and Duane's who help with this also. The county, the state and the different separate "city areas" have also been checked. Let me assure you if Duane was confined any where during that time frame the FBI would already have informed me of this - just to get me to back off. I told the FBI after JT made his accusation if they had PROOF Duane was elsewhere then to provide me with it - as I had found nothing. The agents have NEVER made any such claims. The only PERSON who ever ranted about that was JT and he made it up! Like a lot of things he made up about me and what I said. ====================== Just your mentioning this tells me you talk to JT - well, watch out - JT tells a lot of things that are NOT true! Like the stories he told about me and the things he claimed I said. HELL, when I was talking to JT about the specifics it was 1996 to 2000 and after I went to WA in 2001 - he got a call from me telling him were to go - because he had been misleading me. He KNEW I didn't have map of the area and he kept saying he would send one. HEll, he was giving the places I told him about names - I was just describing the places. Like Lake LaCames he told me that Duane flipped me around and I was on the Columbia. He was playing a dirty mind GAMES with me. In 2001 when I went out to WA with the TV. program they took me to all the wrong places. JT was supposed to be there and he wasn't. I had a student who had only been in WA for 2 yrs as a GUIDE! They took me every which way but right. I arranged to stay and extra day with the airlines, because some people in WA wanted to help me. It was 2 sisters, a sister-in-law and one of their sons who a LAW ENFORCEMENT officer. They intended to take me to another locations when I told the young man that I wanted to go to Washougal first. Before they picked me up a woman I had met on the river the day before with the crew called my room and asked it I would come by her place - she wanted to show me something. All of us went. We picked her up and she told us where to go. When we got out of the car she proceeded to walk down to the river ahead of me....and I saw exactly what I saw when Duane went to the river across from the PDX. This was amazing. What she showed me I will never forget as long as I live....she had listened to me when I told her on a happen chance meeting while withthe crew a description of what I witnessed in 1979. I would never have met her if I had NOT walked (actually ran) away from the crew in 2001 alone and frustrated because they were NOT showing me the places I remembered from 1979. I was getting no where with the crew. Other than Dollars Corner they were of NO value in my search for the truth. Of course JT had a hand in that... After we took the woman back to her home I asked the driver to take me to Washougal and described what I was looking for. HE did and I REMEMBERED. We drove into Washougal and when we got there and before we went across the bridge I asked him to go East and there was a cememtary just where I said it was - the Crew could find the cemetary and JT told me it did NOT exist. It was ALL there. After the people helping crossed the bridge in WashougalI told the driver to go West to our left. When we did this I asked what was long the trees - it was the WAshougal river and I was watching carefully letting my memory guide me and I then told him to make a right turn. At that time he said if I had not told him to make the turn we would have dead ended quiet some ways down that road. We turned right headed North - I was feeling a bit skeptical, but then I saw the farm land for some REASON I noted a road sign - I started to scream turn turn turn. The driver then told me if he had not turned there - the next body of water would be the Lewis River. JT told me what I describe to him did NOT exist at all, but it did and my memory alone took me to it. After we turned there was the lake (I had thought the lake was a river - it was long and narrow in 1979) . In 2001 it was looking more like the lake I was told it was. We found the point were the cabins used to be - but in 2010 when I went back the point was not there - it was basically under water and the building that was on it was gone. I won't tell the rest of the story because it is in this thread a couple of time already - but, it PROVES with witnesses that JT is the liar and not Jo Weber. Therefore Mr Robert99 when you make statements about me with NO bearing just to discredit me - be very careful what you say and know that I will defend myself as long as I am alive and able to do so! No one other than the power that be - death and disease and time will erase my memories of that trip with Duane Weber and the things he told me and the points at which he made those statements. I did NOT want to impose of the people everything - and I could not delay my return to FL for another day. It would be 2010 before I could go back and then I found more - it was difficult because of all of the developement but I found most of the places that Duane took me and JT was completely wrong - yet, he called me the liar over and over and the he found me on this thread and the harassment would start all over - I had 5 yrs of peace with myself and my memory. My trip in 2010 was the final thing, but I wish I could have stayed longer because it was in the last few days things came together and ther were other places I needed to go - but time and money said I had to come home. I could not afford to stay another day. That trip cost me $5,000 dollar that I could ill afford - but I do NOT regret one cent of that. .Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #42215 August 15, 2013 So, your assumptions are better than Hobart's? We're not talking about any assumptions I may or may not have made. You are re-directing and dodging the question...again. And who the hell is Hobart? The only one I know is the little town not far out of Issaquah.Quote I snipped all of your crap. "And who the hell is Hobart?", you ask/demand! Hobart? Hobart who? Why do you feel the need to reply to every Tom, Dick, and Hobart that comes down the pike? I haven't the faintest idea who Hobart is. You? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42216 August 15, 2013 Worlds Greatest Jock Carrier. Viet Nam they used the same tactics smoke jumper used and then on landing they did a cut-a-way. Not sure that is the correct terminology, but it was how the jumper carried the equipment he would need as soon as he hit the ground. To depend on a drop in a fire - they could not do. The immediate equipment and life substaining things went down with them. Yes, there were drops of other equipment, but they need more than a chute when they hit that ground. Knowing how to do it was a matter of life or death if they got separated from the equipment drops. Somewhere I have some old pictures of how the smokejumpers did it. They had the rope short to start with and then as the neared the ground they equipment was separated from them so they were not injured....by the supplies they took down or tangled in a tree...by the connecting rope. NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY [RED]THE FIRST FRICKING PLACE THE FBI LOOKED WAS AT SMOKEJUMPERS AND then LOOKED at MILITARY!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #42217 August 15, 2013 LOL are you kidding? You're the one trying to change history. Present proof. And we're not discussing Kenny Christiansen here. Your dodge over to that shows me you have basically zip. Unless there is something, and in that case I think you should present it. Quote Well here's some history, Hobart. NO! On second thought, YOU give US the history, for a change! Recite if you will, the FBI dialectic of the Flight Path for the following periods. Include revisions, statements, announcements, names et cetera you wish to cite. 1971-1972. 1972-1974 1974-76 (San Francisco Conference) 1976- August 1980 post 1980-1995 1995-c.2006 2007- to date "What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question.", asks Hobart Hobart, who are you kidding! ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #42218 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsI'm not going to quote over your entire post, but here's a check-in pass for you at the Reality Hotel: The FBI says one thing. NWA team says one thing. The ATC's say one thing. And they came to a conclusion and a map. You say another. That means you have to provide at least SOME proof that they were wrong on all that before you start changing history. Shall I direct you to the flight maps? I won't, because I know you've seen them. You have repeatedly denied attempting to move Flight 305 to the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway. I can point to your posted denials. And yet here you are again with that, in your attempt to explain the Tina Bar money. What makes YOU right, and the FBI, ATC, and the NWA team WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question. At what point Cooper jumped on a north-south line is definitely debatable, i.e. anywhere along the FBI's stated route. The problem is, you keep trying to shove that jet much farther west without proof, simply to explain the money. You say Cooper ground-impacted. But you have no body, no chutes, no briefcase, no moneybag, no other money. And you think he did it at Tina Bar. First prove the flight path was west of the freeway north of Vancouver before you make that assumption, or give it up. What you have is nothing more than a theory. Think about it...without proof you are saying that you are smarter than ATC, the FBI, and Paul Soderlind's NWA team. I'm not buying it, not even close, unless you are ready to present hard evidence they were all wrong. I'm not a pilot, but even I know that if all of those people who worked that map using radar were so stupid as to put the flight off by miles...jets would be crashing into each other midair all the time. Either PROVE Flight 305 was west of the Interstate near Tina Bar, or stop flogging a dead horse. going down the stair forward or backwards would not change the way the stairs would react. The FBI has given a description of Cooper. he was not bald and ALL agree a wig was not worn. shall I direct you to the official description of Cooper? you have given the top 10,25 reasons why KC was Cooper, but, fail to come up with any hard evidence. you have given a media version as well as a complete package addressed to the FBI explaining your evidence. nothing has happened with all of your efforts. either prove KC was Cooper, or stop flogging a dead horse. you feel the need to poke at everyone else who has any type of theory or conclusions, meanwhile the one you have been speaking of goes against everything the FBI reports about Cooper? KC was not taller than Tina, KC was bald, the FBI and all the witness accounts agree Cooper had hair. (with a part included) I asked you a couple pages back to show the holes in the countertop that show hinges were on it? are you dodging the question? you seem to want to prove your theory that goes against everything and yet you then turn around and laugh at others who also go against what the FBI is stating? when I go after someone on this form I have some sort of evidence showing the reasons. you have nothing other than words against Robert99, just like a large portion of KC. nothing but a bunch of words. try allowing people to speak rather than letting the thread bottleneck with everyone commenting negatively against you. you constantly disrupt the form every time you post."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #42219 August 15, 2013 This person is claiming that DB Cooper name is Dale Cooper. Maybe he knows something we don't. Link below and excerpts from article below link. http://listverse.com/2012/10/27/top-10-us-airline-hijackings-of-the-sixties/ The hijacker checked in as “Dale Cooper,” The police had interviewed the man who sold Cooper the ticket and asked him if any of the passengers looked suspicious. Without hesitating, the airline employee responded – “yes, Dale Cooper.” The police told the news reporter the suspect’s name was “D. Cooper”. The reporter asked if that was a “D or a B?” The person responded, “yes.” And thus the legend of “DB Cooper” was born. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42220 August 15, 2013 Jo, I don't understand why you act so spitefully. I have been nothing but polite and respectful to everyone's opinion here. I will continue to do that. I admit fully I have no agenda here. My opinions on the case continue to change and evolve the more I learn. Sadly, yours do not. I am not here to waste time getting into pissing matches with anyone. Therefore, I am no longer going to respond to any of your posts. I am going to disregard everything you say to me or about the Cooper case. The things you say do not come from a place of real curiosity or a true desire to piece together evidence. In my mind that makes, you irrelevant. As far as who I am? Also irrelevant. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am a member of law enforcement or if I have heretofore unreleased info about the case. That simply doesn't matter. With that said, it IS confirmed that the drug Coop carried was Benzedrine. The FBI has verbally confirmed it. You can also ask Bruce A. Smith. It was also included in Geoffrey Gray's book. Also, I think we can safely conclude that Coop was a heavy (chain) smoker. The two people in closest contact with him (the stewardesses) both described him as such. The other evidence I have already described in previous posts points in that direction as well. Can it be proven? No, of course not. Very little in this case can be proven. That is why it is an investigation. You take clues, try to piece them together and develop a logical, likely scenario. If more evidence is dug up that contradicts your hypothesis, you start over. You don't turn you back on the new evidence because it wrecks your own theory. Again, this is the last time I will respond to any of your posts, Jo. This forum has been hijacked itself, by people with no interest in solving the case, just seeking validation for their own theories come hell or high water. Facts be damned. That's a real shame. Hopefully, we can restore some civil dialogue and increase the amount of meaningful information being shared, and get away from the angry ALL CAPS, boldfaced yelling and name calling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42221 August 15, 2013 Anyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #42222 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? I will lay odds that the "storm" that was providing the light rain and clouds that evening, was providing a west to east wind into the gorge. East winds from The Gorge tend to be very cold and very dry in the winter. The really fun ones are where that East wind has been in play for a week with very cold air and then have a south westerly system with rain com in and override the cold air, epic ice storms blanket the entire area with a silver "thaw" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #42223 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42224 August 15, 2013 Robert99 You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Again, thanks. I disagree, however, with your comment that the weather was not important. Wind direction would certainly influence where Cooper landed (if his chute deployed). I was wondering if perhaps the easterly winds from the gorge might somehow have floated Coop to the west towards Tena Bar rather than to the north and east as most of the favorite Coop DZs are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #42225 August 15, 2013 QuoteMy research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? FBI agent Larry Carr (lead agent on the DB Cooper case back then) was posting here in 2007 and 2008. All his comments (under username CKRET) made here at DZ are available in downloadable PDF format and easily searchable...link below...Item number 4. http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/results.aspx?hl=222&page=1 Larry Carr states: QuoteThe weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers. The jump: DB's chute was a military style 28' canopy. The planes speed was 173 knots when he jumped at 10,000 feet in full darkness. The landing: Forest with no lights. Possibly mountainous depending upon which theory you buy into. AND QuoteFrom all of this and the location where the money was found, we need to extend the calulation to 8:13, 8:14 and 8:15. I am guessing this would put the jump location near Orchard WA. The winds for that location are as follows: wind direction wind speed height 225 degrees 20 knots 7,000 230 degrees 25 knots 5,000 235 degrees 20 knots 2,000 235 degrees 15 knots surface If you buy my theory that Cooper was a novice jumper then he most likely deployed very soon after leaving the aircraft. If he jumped over Orchard or just south and deployed just out of the aircraft, I believe this would put him in the Washougal Water Shed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1684 1685 1686 1687 1688 1689 1690 1691 1692 1693 1694 Next Page 1689 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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skyjack71 0 #42209 August 15, 2013 georgerWhen unique events are coterminous they quite aften are related. Unique tie ~ unique tie cocktail ~ hijacking ~ found on the hijacker's seat (all in the same time frame). Its sort of like, a meteor strike. Maybe he left a calling card to identify 'the guy with the grudge who now has $200k of their money'. He didn't make any effort to hide his finger prints, his saliva on the butts & glass, etc etc. And he plans to travel on foot after landing to somewhere. Even the amount of money he demanded is reasonable. This is a guy who is acting out of purpose. He has reasons and a personal history. Damn RIGHT on that ONE! Cooper did survive and in 1971 Weber was doing laps morning and evening and he was going to AL on the wkends with a man in a van and with dark hair. The wife told me he asked her to buy him a couple of Dickie jumpsuits. He told her it had something to do with the work he was doing in AL on the weekends. Yet, he was supposedly during the wk selling insurance, but the 1971 taxes showed barely any income for Weber. This is all a puzzle to me - when you look at the taxes 1969, 1970, 1971 and then 1972. It pretty much tells a story - it is posted in this thread.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42210 August 15, 2013 georger From my understanding, the interphone was not used and all communications between cockpit and cooper were through hand delivered notes sent via stewardess. Is this true? Quote Not true. Read the Transcript. Tina relayed messages for him via the interphone - on at least one ocassion he used the interphone himself. Would the crew recognise his voice if they heard it again? Yes. There may even be a recording(s) of his voice! He didn't hide his voice! There is one old rumor that Himmelsbach listened to a recording of Cooper, other agents also, and this is the basis for H saying Cooper 'used filthy language and was profane'. Tosaw asked about this rumor but apparently could not get it confirmed ... there is no mention of it in his book! If that is TRUE, WHY in the HELL did the FBI not release the tape to the TV. If they had a recording all of these yr and did NOT release it - that sound like dereliction of responsibility or a COVER-UP. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42211 August 15, 2013 georger From my understanding, the interphone was not used and all communications between cockpit and cooper were through hand delivered notes sent via stewardess. Is this true? Quote Not true. Read the Transcript. Tina relayed messages for him via the interphone - on at least one ocassion he used the interphone himself. Would the crew recognise his voice if they heard it again? Yes. There may even be a recording(s) of his voice! He didn't hide his voice! There is one old rumor that Himmelsbach listened to a recording of Cooper, other agents also, and this is the basis for H saying Cooper 'used filthy language and was profane'. Tosaw asked about this rumor but apparently could not get it confirmed ... there is no mention of it in his book! Strange he said that as it contradicts what the witnesses said. They said he would polite and well mannered. He did use some choice words such as "Come on - Let's get this ------- show on the road" Perhaps that is what Mr. H is referring to. First I ever heard of there being any recordings. Language like that being said out loud when the passengers were on board could have caused other passengers to panic and/or attack him. Cooper had a strong voice, but I am sure he would NOT have raised it until the passengers where gone. THEN he would have made his demands known in that kind of terminology. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #42212 August 15, 2013 Blevins writes: Robert, you make a LOT of assumptions with those statements. First, you don't know WHEN Cooper might have tried the ripcord. Maybe he did it right off the stairs, as 377 and I have suggested. Rataczak has already stated that the stairs only had 24-36" of headroom on their initial opening, which means either Cooper leaned really far over to squeeze through that opening, or he backed down the stairs. Carrying the load he did, I favor the back-down theory. As I've said previously, if you go FORWARD and those stairs take a sudden drop from your weight, you could easily go head-over-heels and right off the end. Two chutes, a moneybag, a briefcase. Big load. R99 replies: Blevins you need to consider your own assumptions. What makes you so sure he took the brief case with him? As a number of people on this thread have explained to you numerous times, as Cooper moved further down the stairs the opening between the bottom of the stairs and the fuselage would increase. Consequently, Cooper did not jump through the small opening you imply above. Further, it doesn't make any difference whether Cooper backed down the stairs or not. There is no way that he could avoid tumbling once he was off the stairs. This has also been explained numerous times. Blevins writes: And who says it was a 'dark and stormy night'? Dark yes, stormy no. Cold, definitely yes. R99 replies: Rataczak, whom you quote approvingly above, says it was stormy. Why don't you believe him this time? Blevins writes: And how do you figure that 305 was a few miles WEST of the Interstate 5 freeway when it passed by Tina Bar? You have no evidence showing that. You may have some evidence that the flight was not exactly where it was shown on the flight map at certain times, but only in a basically north-south direction, not east or west. R99 replies: Blevins, did you read the post to which you are responding? Obviously not. Blevins writes: You keep trying to move the flight west somehow, in order to explain the Tina Bar money. You also don't explain how...if Cooper impacted on ground as you say...why no one has found anything at or around Tina Bar except approximately three bundles of the ransom. R99 replies: Blevins, you HAVE to explain how the money arrived at Tena Bar. That the money arrived at Tena Bar is a FACT not a THEORY. The rest of your comment above was discussed in the post to which you responded. Maybe you should read it. Blevins writes: You have an entire scenario cooked up here, but it relies on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1) Cooper died in the jump. 2) The flight was west of the freeway by miles. The first is unknown and unproven, and frankly...not supported by the slightest shred of evidence. The second is simply unproven. R99 replies: Blevins, you are also relying on two UNPROVEN and RATHER LARGE assumptions: 1. Cooper survived the jump. 2. The flight was east of the freeway by miles. The rest of your comments above apply to your own assumptions also. But you have no explanation at all for how the money arrived at Tena Bar. Blevins writes: I've attached a demo picture that may not be completely realistic, but does show that sometimes people DO secure things around their waist when jumping, and survive. R99 replies: People have also fallen from great heights, thousands of feet, without parachutes and survived. But if the money bag was not securely and snugly tied to Cooper or his parachute harness it would complicate the dynamics of his tumbling, and there is no way he can avoid tumbling. If the money bag was at the end of a several foot cord, you would have a "earth - moon" dynamical system and not just a single body, or "earth", system. Perhaps you could restrain from lecturing Tom Kaye and Georger long enough to ask them to explain the differences in these two system to you. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #42213 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsI'm not going to quote over your entire post, but here's a check-in pass for you at the Reality Hotel: The FBI says one thing. NWA team says one thing. The ATC's say one thing. And they came to a conclusion and a map. You say another. That means you have to provide at least SOME proof that they were wrong on all that before you start changing history. Shall I direct you to the flight maps? I won't, because I know you've seen them. You have repeatedly denied attempting to move Flight 305 to the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway in your attempt to explain the Tina Bar money. I can point to your posted denials. And yet here you are again with that. What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question. At what point Cooper jumped on a north-south line is definitely debatable, i.e. anywhere along the FBI's stated route. The problem is, you keep trying to shove that jet much farther west without proof, simply to explain the money. You say Cooper ground-impacted. But you have no body, no chutes, no briefcase, no moneybag, no other money. And you think he did it at Tina Bar. First prove the flight path was west of the freeway north of Vancouver before you make that assumption, or give it up. What you have is nothing more than a theory. Think about it...without proof you are saying that you are smarter than ATC, the FBI, and Paul Soderlind's NWA team. I'm not buying it, not even close, unless you are ready to present hard evidence they were all wrong. I'm not a pilot, but even I know that if all of those people who worked that map using radar were so stupid as to put the flight off by miles...jets would be crashing into each other midair all the time. Either PROVE Flight 305 was west of the Interstate near Tina Bar, or stop flogging a dead horse. Blevins, It is time for you to do your own check-in at the Reality Hotel. Your basically accept on "faith" (and I don't mean religious faith) that people who produce something that agrees with what you want are correct? Where is your "proof" that their work is correct? Obviously, you don't feel that you need to know how they arrived at their conclusions. Anything that supports your theory that Cooper (aka as KC) survived and held on to enough money to buy some real estate and make loans to a friend is necessary to back up your book's story line. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #42214 August 15, 2013 Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane in the northwest part of the country in 1971. Jo states: Not in 1971 but before that I CAN and I HAVE! ===================== Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane in a parachute at any time. Jo States: Do you want to BET on that? ======================= Robert stated: Jo cannot put Duane on, or even close to, the hijacked airliner. Jo States: That is what CE told me I had to do! ======================== Robert stated: Jo cannot prove that Duane wasn't in jail on the date of the hijacking. Jo States: Well, that ONE I can prove. Shows you and JT are talking. JT tried to claim that in this thread many yrs ago. I did a lot of research and contacted the places he was supposedly in jail per JT. Duane Weber nor his alias was in any jail, or prison or even arrested in GA, AL or Fl during that time frame. The only incident was his wife driving her car thru the front of the Admiral Bimbo - and I do not remember the time frame now but I have the info. I still have contacts - family and friend of mine and Duane's who help with this also. The county, the state and the different separate "city areas" have also been checked. Let me assure you if Duane was confined any where during that time frame the FBI would already have informed me of this - just to get me to back off. I told the FBI after JT made his accusation if they had PROOF Duane was elsewhere then to provide me with it - as I had found nothing. The agents have NEVER made any such claims. The only PERSON who ever ranted about that was JT and he made it up! Like a lot of things he made up about me and what I said. ====================== Just your mentioning this tells me you talk to JT - well, watch out - JT tells a lot of things that are NOT true! Like the stories he told about me and the things he claimed I said. HELL, when I was talking to JT about the specifics it was 1996 to 2000 and after I went to WA in 2001 - he got a call from me telling him were to go - because he had been misleading me. He KNEW I didn't have map of the area and he kept saying he would send one. HEll, he was giving the places I told him about names - I was just describing the places. Like Lake LaCames he told me that Duane flipped me around and I was on the Columbia. He was playing a dirty mind GAMES with me. In 2001 when I went out to WA with the TV. program they took me to all the wrong places. JT was supposed to be there and he wasn't. I had a student who had only been in WA for 2 yrs as a GUIDE! They took me every which way but right. I arranged to stay and extra day with the airlines, because some people in WA wanted to help me. It was 2 sisters, a sister-in-law and one of their sons who a LAW ENFORCEMENT officer. They intended to take me to another locations when I told the young man that I wanted to go to Washougal first. Before they picked me up a woman I had met on the river the day before with the crew called my room and asked it I would come by her place - she wanted to show me something. All of us went. We picked her up and she told us where to go. When we got out of the car she proceeded to walk down to the river ahead of me....and I saw exactly what I saw when Duane went to the river across from the PDX. This was amazing. What she showed me I will never forget as long as I live....she had listened to me when I told her on a happen chance meeting while withthe crew a description of what I witnessed in 1979. I would never have met her if I had NOT walked (actually ran) away from the crew in 2001 alone and frustrated because they were NOT showing me the places I remembered from 1979. I was getting no where with the crew. Other than Dollars Corner they were of NO value in my search for the truth. Of course JT had a hand in that... After we took the woman back to her home I asked the driver to take me to Washougal and described what I was looking for. HE did and I REMEMBERED. We drove into Washougal and when we got there and before we went across the bridge I asked him to go East and there was a cememtary just where I said it was - the Crew could find the cemetary and JT told me it did NOT exist. It was ALL there. After the people helping crossed the bridge in WashougalI told the driver to go West to our left. When we did this I asked what was long the trees - it was the WAshougal river and I was watching carefully letting my memory guide me and I then told him to make a right turn. At that time he said if I had not told him to make the turn we would have dead ended quiet some ways down that road. We turned right headed North - I was feeling a bit skeptical, but then I saw the farm land for some REASON I noted a road sign - I started to scream turn turn turn. The driver then told me if he had not turned there - the next body of water would be the Lewis River. JT told me what I describe to him did NOT exist at all, but it did and my memory alone took me to it. After we turned there was the lake (I had thought the lake was a river - it was long and narrow in 1979) . In 2001 it was looking more like the lake I was told it was. We found the point were the cabins used to be - but in 2010 when I went back the point was not there - it was basically under water and the building that was on it was gone. I won't tell the rest of the story because it is in this thread a couple of time already - but, it PROVES with witnesses that JT is the liar and not Jo Weber. Therefore Mr Robert99 when you make statements about me with NO bearing just to discredit me - be very careful what you say and know that I will defend myself as long as I am alive and able to do so! No one other than the power that be - death and disease and time will erase my memories of that trip with Duane Weber and the things he told me and the points at which he made those statements. I did NOT want to impose of the people everything - and I could not delay my return to FL for another day. It would be 2010 before I could go back and then I found more - it was difficult because of all of the developement but I found most of the places that Duane took me and JT was completely wrong - yet, he called me the liar over and over and the he found me on this thread and the harassment would start all over - I had 5 yrs of peace with myself and my memory. My trip in 2010 was the final thing, but I wish I could have stayed longer because it was in the last few days things came together and ther were other places I needed to go - but time and money said I had to come home. I could not afford to stay another day. That trip cost me $5,000 dollar that I could ill afford - but I do NOT regret one cent of that. .Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #42215 August 15, 2013 So, your assumptions are better than Hobart's? We're not talking about any assumptions I may or may not have made. You are re-directing and dodging the question...again. And who the hell is Hobart? The only one I know is the little town not far out of Issaquah.Quote I snipped all of your crap. "And who the hell is Hobart?", you ask/demand! Hobart? Hobart who? Why do you feel the need to reply to every Tom, Dick, and Hobart that comes down the pike? I haven't the faintest idea who Hobart is. You? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #42216 August 15, 2013 Worlds Greatest Jock Carrier. Viet Nam they used the same tactics smoke jumper used and then on landing they did a cut-a-way. Not sure that is the correct terminology, but it was how the jumper carried the equipment he would need as soon as he hit the ground. To depend on a drop in a fire - they could not do. The immediate equipment and life substaining things went down with them. Yes, there were drops of other equipment, but they need more than a chute when they hit that ground. Knowing how to do it was a matter of life or death if they got separated from the equipment drops. Somewhere I have some old pictures of how the smokejumpers did it. They had the rope short to start with and then as the neared the ground they equipment was separated from them so they were not injured....by the supplies they took down or tangled in a tree...by the connecting rope. NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY [RED]THE FIRST FRICKING PLACE THE FBI LOOKED WAS AT SMOKEJUMPERS AND then LOOKED at MILITARY!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #42217 August 15, 2013 LOL are you kidding? You're the one trying to change history. Present proof. And we're not discussing Kenny Christiansen here. Your dodge over to that shows me you have basically zip. Unless there is something, and in that case I think you should present it. Quote Well here's some history, Hobart. NO! On second thought, YOU give US the history, for a change! Recite if you will, the FBI dialectic of the Flight Path for the following periods. Include revisions, statements, announcements, names et cetera you wish to cite. 1971-1972. 1972-1974 1974-76 (San Francisco Conference) 1976- August 1980 post 1980-1995 1995-c.2006 2007- to date "What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question.", asks Hobart Hobart, who are you kidding! ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #42218 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsI'm not going to quote over your entire post, but here's a check-in pass for you at the Reality Hotel: The FBI says one thing. NWA team says one thing. The ATC's say one thing. And they came to a conclusion and a map. You say another. That means you have to provide at least SOME proof that they were wrong on all that before you start changing history. Shall I direct you to the flight maps? I won't, because I know you've seen them. You have repeatedly denied attempting to move Flight 305 to the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway. I can point to your posted denials. And yet here you are again with that, in your attempt to explain the Tina Bar money. What makes YOU right, and the FBI, ATC, and the NWA team WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question. At what point Cooper jumped on a north-south line is definitely debatable, i.e. anywhere along the FBI's stated route. The problem is, you keep trying to shove that jet much farther west without proof, simply to explain the money. You say Cooper ground-impacted. But you have no body, no chutes, no briefcase, no moneybag, no other money. And you think he did it at Tina Bar. First prove the flight path was west of the freeway north of Vancouver before you make that assumption, or give it up. What you have is nothing more than a theory. Think about it...without proof you are saying that you are smarter than ATC, the FBI, and Paul Soderlind's NWA team. I'm not buying it, not even close, unless you are ready to present hard evidence they were all wrong. I'm not a pilot, but even I know that if all of those people who worked that map using radar were so stupid as to put the flight off by miles...jets would be crashing into each other midair all the time. Either PROVE Flight 305 was west of the Interstate near Tina Bar, or stop flogging a dead horse. going down the stair forward or backwards would not change the way the stairs would react. The FBI has given a description of Cooper. he was not bald and ALL agree a wig was not worn. shall I direct you to the official description of Cooper? you have given the top 10,25 reasons why KC was Cooper, but, fail to come up with any hard evidence. you have given a media version as well as a complete package addressed to the FBI explaining your evidence. nothing has happened with all of your efforts. either prove KC was Cooper, or stop flogging a dead horse. you feel the need to poke at everyone else who has any type of theory or conclusions, meanwhile the one you have been speaking of goes against everything the FBI reports about Cooper? KC was not taller than Tina, KC was bald, the FBI and all the witness accounts agree Cooper had hair. (with a part included) I asked you a couple pages back to show the holes in the countertop that show hinges were on it? are you dodging the question? you seem to want to prove your theory that goes against everything and yet you then turn around and laugh at others who also go against what the FBI is stating? when I go after someone on this form I have some sort of evidence showing the reasons. you have nothing other than words against Robert99, just like a large portion of KC. nothing but a bunch of words. try allowing people to speak rather than letting the thread bottleneck with everyone commenting negatively against you. you constantly disrupt the form every time you post."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #42219 August 15, 2013 This person is claiming that DB Cooper name is Dale Cooper. Maybe he knows something we don't. Link below and excerpts from article below link. http://listverse.com/2012/10/27/top-10-us-airline-hijackings-of-the-sixties/ The hijacker checked in as “Dale Cooper,” The police had interviewed the man who sold Cooper the ticket and asked him if any of the passengers looked suspicious. Without hesitating, the airline employee responded – “yes, Dale Cooper.” The police told the news reporter the suspect’s name was “D. Cooper”. The reporter asked if that was a “D or a B?” The person responded, “yes.” And thus the legend of “DB Cooper” was born. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42220 August 15, 2013 Jo, I don't understand why you act so spitefully. I have been nothing but polite and respectful to everyone's opinion here. I will continue to do that. I admit fully I have no agenda here. My opinions on the case continue to change and evolve the more I learn. Sadly, yours do not. I am not here to waste time getting into pissing matches with anyone. Therefore, I am no longer going to respond to any of your posts. I am going to disregard everything you say to me or about the Cooper case. The things you say do not come from a place of real curiosity or a true desire to piece together evidence. In my mind that makes, you irrelevant. As far as who I am? Also irrelevant. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am a member of law enforcement or if I have heretofore unreleased info about the case. That simply doesn't matter. With that said, it IS confirmed that the drug Coop carried was Benzedrine. The FBI has verbally confirmed it. You can also ask Bruce A. Smith. It was also included in Geoffrey Gray's book. Also, I think we can safely conclude that Coop was a heavy (chain) smoker. The two people in closest contact with him (the stewardesses) both described him as such. The other evidence I have already described in previous posts points in that direction as well. Can it be proven? No, of course not. Very little in this case can be proven. That is why it is an investigation. You take clues, try to piece them together and develop a logical, likely scenario. If more evidence is dug up that contradicts your hypothesis, you start over. You don't turn you back on the new evidence because it wrecks your own theory. Again, this is the last time I will respond to any of your posts, Jo. This forum has been hijacked itself, by people with no interest in solving the case, just seeking validation for their own theories come hell or high water. Facts be damned. That's a real shame. Hopefully, we can restore some civil dialogue and increase the amount of meaningful information being shared, and get away from the angry ALL CAPS, boldfaced yelling and name calling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42221 August 15, 2013 Anyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #42222 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? I will lay odds that the "storm" that was providing the light rain and clouds that evening, was providing a west to east wind into the gorge. East winds from The Gorge tend to be very cold and very dry in the winter. The really fun ones are where that East wind has been in play for a week with very cold air and then have a south westerly system with rain com in and override the cold air, epic ice storms blanket the entire area with a silver "thaw" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #42223 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CCharger 0 #42224 August 15, 2013 Robert99 You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Again, thanks. I disagree, however, with your comment that the weather was not important. Wind direction would certainly influence where Cooper landed (if his chute deployed). I was wondering if perhaps the easterly winds from the gorge might somehow have floated Coop to the west towards Tena Bar rather than to the north and east as most of the favorite Coop DZs are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #42225 August 15, 2013 QuoteMy research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? FBI agent Larry Carr (lead agent on the DB Cooper case back then) was posting here in 2007 and 2008. All his comments (under username CKRET) made here at DZ are available in downloadable PDF format and easily searchable...link below...Item number 4. http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/results.aspx?hl=222&page=1 Larry Carr states: QuoteThe weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers. The jump: DB's chute was a military style 28' canopy. The planes speed was 173 knots when he jumped at 10,000 feet in full darkness. The landing: Forest with no lights. Possibly mountainous depending upon which theory you buy into. AND QuoteFrom all of this and the location where the money was found, we need to extend the calulation to 8:13, 8:14 and 8:15. I am guessing this would put the jump location near Orchard WA. The winds for that location are as follows: wind direction wind speed height 225 degrees 20 knots 7,000 230 degrees 25 knots 5,000 235 degrees 20 knots 2,000 235 degrees 15 knots surface If you buy my theory that Cooper was a novice jumper then he most likely deployed very soon after leaving the aircraft. If he jumped over Orchard or just south and deployed just out of the aircraft, I believe this would put him in the Washougal Water Shed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1684 1685 1686 1687 1688 1689 1690 1691 1692 1693 1694 Next Page 1689 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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skyjack71 0 #42216 August 15, 2013 Worlds Greatest Jock Carrier. Viet Nam they used the same tactics smoke jumper used and then on landing they did a cut-a-way. Not sure that is the correct terminology, but it was how the jumper carried the equipment he would need as soon as he hit the ground. To depend on a drop in a fire - they could not do. The immediate equipment and life substaining things went down with them. Yes, there were drops of other equipment, but they need more than a chute when they hit that ground. Knowing how to do it was a matter of life or death if they got separated from the equipment drops. Somewhere I have some old pictures of how the smokejumpers did it. They had the rope short to start with and then as the neared the ground they equipment was separated from them so they were not injured....by the supplies they took down or tangled in a tree...by the connecting rope. NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY [RED]THE FIRST FRICKING PLACE THE FBI LOOKED WAS AT SMOKEJUMPERS AND then LOOKED at MILITARY!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #42217 August 15, 2013 LOL are you kidding? You're the one trying to change history. Present proof. And we're not discussing Kenny Christiansen here. Your dodge over to that shows me you have basically zip. Unless there is something, and in that case I think you should present it. Quote Well here's some history, Hobart. NO! On second thought, YOU give US the history, for a change! Recite if you will, the FBI dialectic of the Flight Path for the following periods. Include revisions, statements, announcements, names et cetera you wish to cite. 1971-1972. 1972-1974 1974-76 (San Francisco Conference) 1976- August 1980 post 1980-1995 1995-c.2006 2007- to date "What makes YOU right, and the FBI and NWA WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question.", asks Hobart Hobart, who are you kidding! ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #42218 August 15, 2013 RobertMBlevinsI'm not going to quote over your entire post, but here's a check-in pass for you at the Reality Hotel: The FBI says one thing. NWA team says one thing. The ATC's say one thing. And they came to a conclusion and a map. You say another. That means you have to provide at least SOME proof that they were wrong on all that before you start changing history. Shall I direct you to the flight maps? I won't, because I know you've seen them. You have repeatedly denied attempting to move Flight 305 to the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway. I can point to your posted denials. And yet here you are again with that, in your attempt to explain the Tina Bar money. What makes YOU right, and the FBI, ATC, and the NWA team WRONG on that? This is a legitimate question. At what point Cooper jumped on a north-south line is definitely debatable, i.e. anywhere along the FBI's stated route. The problem is, you keep trying to shove that jet much farther west without proof, simply to explain the money. You say Cooper ground-impacted. But you have no body, no chutes, no briefcase, no moneybag, no other money. And you think he did it at Tina Bar. First prove the flight path was west of the freeway north of Vancouver before you make that assumption, or give it up. What you have is nothing more than a theory. Think about it...without proof you are saying that you are smarter than ATC, the FBI, and Paul Soderlind's NWA team. I'm not buying it, not even close, unless you are ready to present hard evidence they were all wrong. I'm not a pilot, but even I know that if all of those people who worked that map using radar were so stupid as to put the flight off by miles...jets would be crashing into each other midair all the time. Either PROVE Flight 305 was west of the Interstate near Tina Bar, or stop flogging a dead horse. going down the stair forward or backwards would not change the way the stairs would react. The FBI has given a description of Cooper. he was not bald and ALL agree a wig was not worn. shall I direct you to the official description of Cooper? you have given the top 10,25 reasons why KC was Cooper, but, fail to come up with any hard evidence. you have given a media version as well as a complete package addressed to the FBI explaining your evidence. nothing has happened with all of your efforts. either prove KC was Cooper, or stop flogging a dead horse. you feel the need to poke at everyone else who has any type of theory or conclusions, meanwhile the one you have been speaking of goes against everything the FBI reports about Cooper? KC was not taller than Tina, KC was bald, the FBI and all the witness accounts agree Cooper had hair. (with a part included) I asked you a couple pages back to show the holes in the countertop that show hinges were on it? are you dodging the question? you seem to want to prove your theory that goes against everything and yet you then turn around and laugh at others who also go against what the FBI is stating? when I go after someone on this form I have some sort of evidence showing the reasons. you have nothing other than words against Robert99, just like a large portion of KC. nothing but a bunch of words. try allowing people to speak rather than letting the thread bottleneck with everyone commenting negatively against you. you constantly disrupt the form every time you post."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
testxyz 0 #42219 August 15, 2013 This person is claiming that DB Cooper name is Dale Cooper. Maybe he knows something we don't. Link below and excerpts from article below link. http://listverse.com/2012/10/27/top-10-us-airline-hijackings-of-the-sixties/ The hijacker checked in as “Dale Cooper,” The police had interviewed the man who sold Cooper the ticket and asked him if any of the passengers looked suspicious. Without hesitating, the airline employee responded – “yes, Dale Cooper.” The police told the news reporter the suspect’s name was “D. Cooper”. The reporter asked if that was a “D or a B?” The person responded, “yes.” And thus the legend of “DB Cooper” was born. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCharger 0 #42220 August 15, 2013 Jo, I don't understand why you act so spitefully. I have been nothing but polite and respectful to everyone's opinion here. I will continue to do that. I admit fully I have no agenda here. My opinions on the case continue to change and evolve the more I learn. Sadly, yours do not. I am not here to waste time getting into pissing matches with anyone. Therefore, I am no longer going to respond to any of your posts. I am going to disregard everything you say to me or about the Cooper case. The things you say do not come from a place of real curiosity or a true desire to piece together evidence. In my mind that makes, you irrelevant. As far as who I am? Also irrelevant. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am a member of law enforcement or if I have heretofore unreleased info about the case. That simply doesn't matter. With that said, it IS confirmed that the drug Coop carried was Benzedrine. The FBI has verbally confirmed it. You can also ask Bruce A. Smith. It was also included in Geoffrey Gray's book. Also, I think we can safely conclude that Coop was a heavy (chain) smoker. The two people in closest contact with him (the stewardesses) both described him as such. The other evidence I have already described in previous posts points in that direction as well. Can it be proven? No, of course not. Very little in this case can be proven. That is why it is an investigation. You take clues, try to piece them together and develop a logical, likely scenario. If more evidence is dug up that contradicts your hypothesis, you start over. You don't turn you back on the new evidence because it wrecks your own theory. Again, this is the last time I will respond to any of your posts, Jo. This forum has been hijacked itself, by people with no interest in solving the case, just seeking validation for their own theories come hell or high water. Facts be damned. That's a real shame. Hopefully, we can restore some civil dialogue and increase the amount of meaningful information being shared, and get away from the angry ALL CAPS, boldfaced yelling and name calling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCharger 0 #42221 August 15, 2013 Anyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #42222 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? I will lay odds that the "storm" that was providing the light rain and clouds that evening, was providing a west to east wind into the gorge. East winds from The Gorge tend to be very cold and very dry in the winter. The really fun ones are where that East wind has been in play for a week with very cold air and then have a south westerly system with rain com in and override the cold air, epic ice storms blanket the entire area with a silver "thaw" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #42223 August 15, 2013 CChargerAnyone have any information on the winds that night? My research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCharger 0 #42224 August 15, 2013 Robert99 You are in luck. Ckret, the FBI agent, sent all available weather information to this thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of the posts that included that information. However, I do have the print outs. Perhaps a member of the thread can pinpoint Ckret's posts about the weather. The weather information includes the hourly sequence reports, the wind aloft forecasts, etc., etc.. Additional weather information is available from such online sources as Weather Underground. Basically, the winds at 10,000 feet in the Portland area were from the southwest at about 25-30 knots. The surface (ground) winds at Portland International Airport, which is 30 feet above sea level, were from the south to southwest at approximately 10 knots. There were several cloud layers with an overcast reported at 5000 feet. Visibility at Portland was about 10 miles and there were light rain showers in the area. Himmelsbach's book states that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in heavy rain at the time Cooper jumped. Recently, Rataczak (the co-pilot and only living member of the cockpit crew) said that they were in freezing rain at 10,000 feet. Since the ambient temperature at 10,000 feet was well below freezing, Rataczak's statement begs the question of why it was "rain" rather than "snow", which would seem more likely under the circumstances. But there is nothing in the weather records of any clouds above 5000 feet. Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the entire weather picture for the time of the hijacking. His work can be considered as the gold standard for the overall weather picture. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the winds in the Columbia Gorge that evening were from the east. Locations on the eastern end of the Gorge were reporting winds of about 10 knots from the west. I recently made two drives through that entire Gorge to get a first hand look at it. In my opinion, the Gorge did not have any influence on the Portland weather at time of the hijacking. And it would probably have only minimal influence on the Portland weather even with the winds blowing from the east. Overall, in my opinion, the weather was not of any particular significance during the hijacking. Robert99 Again, thanks. I disagree, however, with your comment that the weather was not important. Wind direction would certainly influence where Cooper landed (if his chute deployed). I was wondering if perhaps the easterly winds from the gorge might somehow have floated Coop to the west towards Tena Bar rather than to the north and east as most of the favorite Coop DZs are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
testxyz 0 #42225 August 15, 2013 QuoteMy research indicates it was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. However, the winds coming from the Columbia Gorge blow from east to west in the winter. Clarification, please? FBI agent Larry Carr (lead agent on the DB Cooper case back then) was posting here in 2007 and 2008. All his comments (under username CKRET) made here at DZ are available in downloadable PDF format and easily searchable...link below...Item number 4. http://collections.washingtonhistory.org/results.aspx?hl=222&page=1 Larry Carr states: QuoteThe weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers. The jump: DB's chute was a military style 28' canopy. The planes speed was 173 knots when he jumped at 10,000 feet in full darkness. The landing: Forest with no lights. Possibly mountainous depending upon which theory you buy into. AND QuoteFrom all of this and the location where the money was found, we need to extend the calulation to 8:13, 8:14 and 8:15. I am guessing this would put the jump location near Orchard WA. The winds for that location are as follows: wind direction wind speed height 225 degrees 20 knots 7,000 230 degrees 25 knots 5,000 235 degrees 20 knots 2,000 235 degrees 15 knots surface If you buy my theory that Cooper was a novice jumper then he most likely deployed very soon after leaving the aircraft. If he jumped over Orchard or just south and deployed just out of the aircraft, I believe this would put him in the Washougal Water Shed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
