DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

Airt, I happen to agree with you, even though
I think Im on good terms with Bruce.

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You are, G.

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[airtwardo 6]

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Airt, I happen to agree with you, even though
I think Im on good terms with Bruce.

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You are, G.

Yeah but I'm in the doghouse...again!

Don't take MY comments as an attack Bruce, they're not meant to be...,more of a 'heads up' in regard to how your coming across and perhaps to question the wisdom of the tack you were using.

As in everything, the 'shortest' route isn't always the safest, most productive.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

Yes. It's all true. And well known by the FBI and by the people who know and love me. As I've said, I'm an open book...

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THAT will knock the wind outta someone's sail, no blockin', no sliding, no fancy footwork...quick drop of a shoulder, bounce off the tackler and just keep going!

i LIKE it...you GO girl!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BruceSmith 3]

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Airt, I happen to agree with you, even though
I think Im on good terms with Bruce.

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You are, G.

Yeah but I'm in the doghouse...again!

Don't take MY comments as an attack Bruce, they're not meant to be...,more of a 'heads up' in regard to how your coming across and perhaps to question the wisdom of the tack you were using.

***

That's how I took your comments, Air-T. A tad harsh, but I accept. It is worthwhile knowing just how people take my postings.

Woof! Is there room in the Dog House?

(Remember, I'm channeling my innner Border Collie these days. We could have a party!!! Tequila? Toast Marla? Heck, she might join us!)

[JerryThomas 0]

Bruce : Marla must have expected a few critic's to pop up. Let's face it there are a few problems with her story. However her chances to make any money on a book deal are a movie is less than 1%. None of this is anyone's fault. Jerry

[georger 197]

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Bruce:

Your statement "That's what Rataczak told me. Perhaps I should ask for confirmation from Everett Johnson, the 727 pilot with World Airways that Sailshaw and I had lunch with about three months ago.

Also, I believe that Bill told me that there was a pre-setting for 15 degrees. I'll check my notes at some point to confirm."

Bruce, I checked with Everett and he remembers 727 settings of 15 deg, 25 deg, 30 deg and full flap at 40 deg.

I believe these are the same settings previously
found and discussed here by Snow, 377, and others
earlier. An issue developed, ie. what was the last
setting change just prior to Cooper bailing; 30 vs 15
degrees? Snow asked me specifically, as a test
to see if I was paying attention, I replied "30
degrees". Snow agreed humorously. [This is how I
remember this exchanges without looking it up]
Anyone can offer a correction -

The rest of your post is "excellent" info! Thanks!

Cooper did say "15 degrees" from somewhere
(in his head) to verbalise it. (It has been offered
one crew member heaing this reacted and said
something like, 'he probably has the ____ manual
back there!' - showing crew frustration.)

Cooper was calm and cool, deliberate with
instructions, if you set aside the brief periods where
he displayed some temper and anxiety reported by
Tina. I wonder how this squares with LD's general
personality at the time? And the "sadness" some
have reported Tina reporting - how does this mesh
with LD's persoanlity traits during that period or
generally? LD was a little more than 40 years old
on 11-24-71. (BDate: 17 Sep 1931 )

[georger 197]

For your consideration:

LD's service:
Enlistment Date 1: 29 Dec 1951
Release Date 1: 22 Apr 1955

Part of the above time presumably spent in
hospitalisation in England. Place of hospitalisation
unknown.

(any number of American servicemen would also
have been hospitalised at the same facility perhaps
going back into WWII)

Dan Cooper was originally conceived and serialized
in the weekly "Tintin" magazine in 1954, and
released Feb 2 1955, as competition to a similar
character in a competing magazine.

Publication dates of various issues can be seen
at:
http://www.coolfrenchcomics.com/dancooper.htm

Copies of interest: (list reflects only those earlier
than 1971)

Le Triangle Bleu [The Blue Triangle] (#1) (TI Nos.
323-370, release Feb 2, 1955; Lombard, 1957)
Le Maître du Soleil [The Master Of The Sun] (#2) (TI
Nos. 394-443, 1956-57; Lombard, 1958)
Le Mur du Silence [The Wall Of Silence] (#3) (TI
Nos. 445-475, 1957; Lombard, 1959)
Operation Jupiter (#4) (TI Nos. 476-506, 1958;
Lombard, 1979)
Cap sur Mars [Destination Mars] (#5) (TI 519-564,
1959; Lombard, 1960)
Les 3 Cosmonautes [The 3 Cosmonauts] (#10) (TI
760,-790, 1963; Lombard, 1966)
Le Mystere des Soucoupes Volantes [The Mystery Of
The Flying Saucers] (#14) (TI Nos. 903-930, 1966;
Lombard, 1969)
Panique à Cap Kennedy [Panic At Cape Kennedy]
(#15) (TI Nos 945-962, 1967; Lombard, 1970)
SOS dans l'Espace [SOS In Space] (#17) (TI Nos.
996-1017, 1968; Lombard, 1971)
Apollo Appelle Soyouz [Apollo Calling Soyuz] (#20)
(TI Nos. 1086-1106, 1969; Lombard, 1973)

Was DanCooper release date Feb 2 1955 at the
hospital facility LD stayed at for an extended time,
in England - released from service 22 April 1955 ?

[georger 197]

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Disclaimer: These are Marla's known aliases. I do NOT know if she changed her name back to Cooper in an effort to add credibility to her story. Let's make that clear, folks. Lots of women change their names after a divorce, etc.

Marla Wynn Santore

Marla Wynn Evans

It would be interesting to know whether she was divorced for a significant amount of time before the last name change, however. Especially if this change came shortly before she went public, or began checking the Cooper case.

This is easy to discover. Two ways. Drop thirty bucks on a legit search service. Or I could call I guy I know in NYC. You can figure out the rest.

and this concern of you concerns the Cooper case
how ?

I have just posted a wealth of real information if
you are interested in the Cooper case -

[skyjack71 0]

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(B) Dropzone Cooper Forum Culture

The frustration among citizen sleuths with perceived lapses within the initial investigation, the sheer length of time that has elapsed in the unsolved case, the failure to make significant gains in accumulating new physical evidence over the years, and maybe most significantly, the sheer number of false leads, hoaxers, non-empirically-minded investigators, and attention seekers that have either claimed to know Dan Cooper’s identity or claimed to be Dan Cooper himself, has adversely affected the culture here in the forum.

GUYS I can' STAND it!

GreenElf:

I was not going to post, but I hope you have NOT included me (Jo Weber) in the "attention seekers". I have far far more substance to the story about Weber than Marla has. If you do not know about this then you need to talk to individuals I know and see what I do have. Things the FBI did NOT have a clue about nor did they investigate.

They did NOT interview the sister or the brother. If so they would know about the Boeing Connections regarding Weber.

All of the witnesses said Cooper was older than Marla's Uncle.

The FBI has too many HOLES in their investigation regarding Weber...time lapses and unexplained things - they CHOSE to ignore and now I will say HAD to ignore, because there would be no other excuse for non-disclosure of certain periods of Weber's history.
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Unfortunately, as you're aware, there can be only one DB Cooper. The review of various witness testimony in the Cooper investigation alone has been like a large-scale, never-ending version of that old TV game show, “To Tell The Truth”.

For 15 yrs I have been consistent and because the FBI was not forthcoming have also explored lots of theories - but, I always go back to basics and there are more basics if you wish to pay me a visit and review them. Basics the FBI ignored perhaps because there was too much too fast.
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Regardless of the contextual background provided, and directly related to the fact that the FBI has not changed their public position stating that you are a credible witness, I feel you are owed an apology for any instances in which a journalist or citizen sleuth within or through this forum has, in an effort to gain information, turned their process of communication or inquiry into a hostile activity.

You have never seen what I have nor do you know anything about me other than what you read in a thread. I have been a creditable witness and the FBI never asked me to take a polygraph. No one took into consideration the FBI lied to me about FACTS regarding Weber and that I proved them wrong. Marla has NOT been directly involved in investigating her Uncle's background nor does she have the written infomation and time lines I have. NOT that the FBI is interested.

The FBI if they had PROOF Duane was NOT Cooper then they should have came forth with that information 11 yrs ago. I was NOT out here promoting a book or doing a movie - I was looking for the past of Duane L. Weber.

I contacted the FBI after I heard the "details of Marla's story" and provided them with information they need to review. Written and recorded information which may only be co-incidental, but should be investigated and ruled out as it is some really strange information, but real.

No Guys, I will not reveal this because it involves other individuals whose privacy I have protected, but the FBI should be able to check it out...as there is still a living person who might be able to verify the information and it just could be in the form of an 8 yr old in 1998...not, Marla. Ooops! I did say 1998 didn't I. No that is NOT a typing error. I do NOT expect the FBI to even look at this and have launched my own investigation into this information, but I cannot go where the FBI can go.


No one ever apologized for not being selectively senitive nor have they done anything to minimize emotional or psychological harm to me in the course of their investigation. All it would have taken was written documentation of how they were able to declare Weber was NOT Cooper. They were so gullible they took everything one individual in Duane's past had to say at face value and I was told a different story by the same person.

I asked the FBI allow me to approach this person with a wire, but they did it their way. NOT one time did they even consider involvement before or after the crime - and that this person was scared out of his or her wits.
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While one may argue whether the limitations of recalling a 40 year old memory is both a strength of your case (i.e., the proof of an excellent memory), or a weakness (i.e. a conveniently limited circumstance)

Yet, they dismissed the testimony of an adult woman's trip and the locations she tried to describe to a person she was led to believe was actually involved in the investigation. This man was NOT part of the FBI, but she was led to believe he had the CONNECTIONS to the FBI and was reporting to the FBI. Apologize for the 15 yrs this man cost the woman out of her life until she found the places herself......

The FBI also ignored his confession he made and the fact that I held certain items in my own hands. One of which has been describe by me to one of the crew - this individual finished my description of this item. the FBI did not blink an eye.
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My Perspective

Background
My professional expertise in this forum does not specifically involve parachuting, journalism, or military expertise. My experience is in the field of psychology, particularly in the field of human credibility and motivation.

May I ask what you think my motivation and credibility was?
Yet the FBI dismissed Duane in 1998 based on his criminal record that they did NOT explore enough to even look at the missed points regarding the Jefferson incarceration and the missing yrs from 1962 to 1966.

The FBI did NOT investigate Weber in the manner they should have - and if they had they would have found more - much more than anything ever presented on one suspect. At least one of the witnesses into the past of Weber had reason to lie. They never questioned individuals they should have and when I tried to find them after the FBI had ignored them - one was deceased and the other threatened me even before I gave the FBI his name. This man knew Duane as John Collins.
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Your personal and public presentation, demeanor, willingness to be vulnerable and willingness to allow for interview-associated flexibility within the investigation so far is suggestive of one who is being truthful about what they have witnessed.

I did not go public until the FBI denied Duane's McNeil record and Army record. I avoided going public for almost 4 yrs, until the FBI made that one blunderous mistake...

Not one person apologized for the hostility shown to me by others, yet, you state "people tend to avoid perpetually sustained environments of hostility for situations in which an intrinsic truth is absent and not worth upholding". Just where do I fit into that situation - I have subjected myself to this for 15 yrs now...and I am not out here trying to write a book - just looking for the truth.

I do not do well in public interviews - some individual do NOT put themselves out there in public. I lost money because I was a real estate agent - so I just drop out of the media end of it and continued my search on my own. I do NOT like media attention - Marla thrives in it.
Why I did NOT come to the symposium.

"The Presence of Reasonable, Consistent Answers". Do you not think I have been consistent or gave reasonable answers?
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377 and I agree that the description of the 1970’s walkie-talkies

I told the story about Duane and his ex using walkie talkies on the beach during his John Collins days 1962 to 1971 and this was admitted to me by the other individual involved. Also that Weber was very knowledgeable regarding CB's. The FBI was aware of this in 1996 when I contacted them. Mr. H relayed much of my information and now I wonder how much he did not relay. I made tape of my memories.


The involvement of the Dan Cooper Comics is ludirous and was introduced in this thread by Snowmman as a possible link to Cooper.

As for a Boeing link - the FBI never investigated Duane's access to Boeing information thru family members. Duane's brother was an engineer and he and a partner owned a commercial building in WA near Seattle. This is proveable by way of property records. Find the name of the co-owner on those properties and you will find yet perhaps another former Boeing employee.


As for DL Cooper having a resemblance to Cooper - check out the MULTIPLE pics on Weber...not just the one not so clear photo of DL. Note that Weber was 46 and and DL was bearly 40 in 1971. As for the build it fits Weber more than it did DL. Did you ever here the word "compact" in describing Cooper. Well, do your research! Dl was not.

When you finish your research then make another post. It will take you several months to get up to speed on your details.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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Is it verified that LD was actually in a hospital in England? It's possible, of course. I wonder how he ended up in one while serving in the Navy, unless his injuries or illness were non-combat related.

If he were serving in the Korean conflict area, it's much more likely he would have ended up in a Naval hospital in either Japan, Okinawa, or possibly Hawaii.

Hard to say. You know how it is. Navy goes all over the damn place.

You evidently have been busy elsewhere - in one published account it is said LD spent time recovering
in hospital in England. Did you not know this?

[Orange1 0]

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A review of my journalistic rules of conduct seems to be in order, today.
....

Bruce, some of your work has been interesting. But, at least for me, your "rules of conduct" will forever be tainted by the tabloid article, complete with paparazzi photos, that you published on Tina.

A colleague of mine is fond of saying that reputation is like virginity: you can guard it for years, but once it's broken, it's gone forever.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Is it verified that LD was actually in a hospital in England? It's possible, of course. I wonder how he ended up in one while serving in the Navy, unless his injuries or illness were non-combat related.

If he were serving in the Korean conflict area, it's much more likely he would have ended up in a Naval hospital in either Japan, Okinawa, or possibly Hawaii.

Hard to say. You know how it is. Navy goes all over the damn place.

You evidently have been busy elsewhere - in one published account it is said LD spent time recovering
in hospital in England. Did you not know this?

Wonder if the FBI ever investigated why Duane carried a picture of the San Marino Sanitarium in his hidden wallet.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

Bruce, some of your work has been interesting. But, at least for me, your "rules of conduct" will forever be tainted by the tabloid article, complete with paparazzi photos, that you published on Tina.

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That's the problem with disappearing for 30 years - people want to see you, especially if you're the primary witness in one of the top ten crime mysteries in America.

So, Orange; where does DB C rank internationally?

The bigger issue - and certainly more serious - is how to conduct the stories that involve exceptionally sensitive topics and people. Galen and I spent close to two years trying unsuccessfully to find a way to speak with Tina and to learn what had happened to her.

From my point of view, Tina is not a whole and happy person, because people who do are not enraged recluses and do not have families that slam doors, lie, deceive and mis-direct folks who are curious and concerned.

Further, are some paparazzi more honorable than others? I feel I possess a measure of honor in the type of pictures I displayed. The only photos I posted were side and three-quarter shots; no close-ups or head shots, and no discernible items in the background, such as license plate numbers. This was done intentionally.

My concern for Tina was expressed to all the journalists I spoke with who wanted the pix and story, and we all kept Tina's actual name and exact address out of publicaiton - globally, as far as I know. I am proud of that, and proud of my brethren and sistren in media.

As for interest, the Mountain News reached 100,000 hits today. Now, 40,000 of those came from the Tina interview and pix pieces, so the interest is clearly massive.

That said, I do have mixed feelings about posting Tina's pix. I wish things were more clear. I wish Tina would talk. I wish I had her complete approval. I wish Tina was a different kind of celebrity - and I wish her a peace far beyond her cute-as-a-button backyard and a chilled glass of Chablis. But that's a good place to start.

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[Orange1 0]

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That's the problme with disappearing for 30 years - people want to see ya! Especially if you're the primary witness in one of the top ten crime mysteries in America.

That's your excuse for invading the privacy of someone who has made it clear they want to be left alone? Someone who never went looking for "fame"? Shame on you.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 197]

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Disclaimer: These are Marla's known aliases. I do NOT know if she changed her name back to Cooper in an effort to add credibility to her story. Let's make that clear, folks. Lots of women change their names after a divorce, etc.

Marla Wynn Santore

Marla Wynn Evans

It would be interesting to know whether she was divorced for a significant amount of time before the last name change, however. Especially if this change came shortly before she went public, or began checking the Cooper case.

This is easy to discover. Two ways. Drop thirty bucks on a legit search service. Or I could call I guy I know in NYC. You can figure out the rest.

and this concern of you concerns the Cooper case
how ?

I have just posted a wealth of real information if
you are interested in the Cooper case -

Georger, I've seen all that info on the Cooper comics already at Cool French Comics or wherever you picked it up. But it was good you posted it. My point was simple. If Marla was divorced for a few years before suddenly deciding to return to her maiden name...and this change in name occurred just PRIOR to her going public, or investigating the case, it is frankly suspicious.

I will be upfront here. Without solid testimony from Marla's family members regarding her comic story, I have to reject it on its face. She's added more to this story as she goes along. First, it was only that LD had copies on his bedroom wall. Then...it advances to her taking down the copies and trying to read them.

Why do I always have to be the one to ask the direct questions? (*laughs*) It's not fair!

Out of everybody who lived under that roof who is still alive, where is just ONE family member who will verify her story about the comics...and do it publicly?

Sister? Brother? Mother? Where ARE these people? I've brought this up before, but imagine how her credibility would jump overnight if all of them were to appear on television or a media interview and give the same story about the comics. Or at least confirm they are sure they saw them at that time...that they EXISTED IN THE HOME. If they were willing to all go on the record, or at least SOME of them, especially her mother, then her claim would be a bit more believable.

This is a legit question. In her interview, why didn't Marla's mother offer up the same story? You might figure she would know, unless there was a sign on LD's bedroom door that said 'Marla Only'.

You can persue the social angle as you want.

My interest is the evidence. Dan Cooper was
conceived in 1954 by Weinberg etal in order to
compete with a similar character in another
publication, but not released until Feb 2 1955.

LD Cooper was released from service in April of
1955. So only two months available when he could
have seen any Dan Cooper comic in England, if it
was there. None had been released prior to Feb 2
1955 if the data is correct.

LD must then be exposed to the Dan Cooper comic
at another time and place ?

[BruceSmith 3]

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That's the problme with disappearing for 30 years - people want to see ya! Especially if you're the primary witness in one of the top ten crime mysteries in America.

That's your excuse for invading the privacy of someone who has made it clear they want to be left alone? Someone who never went looking for "fame"?

Yes, that's my "excuse."

And shame, well, I do not subscribe to it because shame, blame and guilt are exceptionally dangerous. They can defeat the most vigorous warrior.

Rather, I accept that I learn from all things that I do.

I find it more useful to consider myself a divine being on a path to God, as is everyone else. I leave shame for those who need to control or manipulate others, or wish to be subservient.

[Orange1 0]

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I find it more useful to consider myself a divine being on a path to God,.

...interesting way you are choosing to do it... most people who look at themselves that way don't choose to hurt others on their path.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[arfuller 0]

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I hope this satisfies you enough that you will now cease, but I doubt it. As for me, I'm finished with DZ now. Whoever you are who "exposed this to these strangers, I'm not sure what you think you have achieve. But know this, you can't break someone as broken as I am, which has made me whole.

Good bye Marla. Good bye and good riddance. I hope you enjoyed discussing your checkered past. I thought you were coming here to discuss the DB Cooper case. I was a sure book sell before. I'll have to think about it now. Maybe I'll spend the money on Gray's book instead.

The Money Connection

[377 20]

Re Lil Subie.

If it has a "non interference" engine a broken timing belt is no big deal. If not, the repair bill likely will exceed the value of the vehicle.

In the case of an "interference" engine, when the timing belt breaks the valves and pistons are no longer synchronized and they collide. Havoc is an understatement.

Good luck Robert. I like keeping old cars running. I've never owned a brand new one.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

377: Do you think Marla will come back.sjsmith is not who Marla clains he is.He's another friend of her's and not the one that was involved with her book. Jerry

[ParrotheadVol 70]

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Does any one know why she just started going by the last name of Cooper last year when she started her DB Cooper research? I've known her 15+ years, and she has never gone by that last name until she started her research. People, you sure are being fooled by a pretty blonde that speaks so eloquently. She's been married and divorced four times. She has three sons that her husband raised. Oh, and one of the sons was not even her husband's. It was with a man she had an affair with while married. She didn't tell the son until last year or the year before when she got back with that lover and he ended his 20+ year marriage to be with her. And SURPRISE ... her son didn't speak to her for a long time because of his hurt. Thanks, Bruce and Robert, for doing some research on credibility. I think her changing her last name to Cooper was convenient timing to make this story more plausible. No doubt, she does have the family name of Cooper. Just curious timing.

This was low class. If I were going to drop this kind of info about someone, I would not do it on a message board hiding behind a made up name. I would either have the balls to say it publicly or I would not say it at all.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[JerryThomas 0]

ParrotheadVol: It's better this came out on Drop Zone instead of national TV. At least she has a chance to defend herself here. Maybe he is using his real name (S J Smith) and he already tried to talk to her. Jerry

[tek8807 0]

I have been following this forum for a while, brought by Geoffrey Gray’s book. I have enjoyed the discourse and feel like most people, myself included, just want to know who DB was no matter who it turns out to be.

Green Elf is such a gentleman and lays out some plausible reasons why he feels Marla is telling the truth. However, there are people who the truth is what they invent and they whole-heartedly believe what they spin. I have known a few and perhaps so have some of you. They exaggerate, embellish, or just plain invent and for the most part are not question. To me, that is another explanation as to why Marla would so graciously accept the speaking engagement at the Symposium. She has even mentioned that she didn’t realize that it was a DZ event, perhaps not expecting to be thoroughly question. I’m not saying that she is fabricating but her defensive behavior strikes me as someone who is not used to being questioned.

The part of her entire story that bothers me the most is her certainty that LD was DB. At 8 years old, I still believed in Santa Clause. I have, over the course of my life, been reminiscing with family about ‘old times’ only to be told, “Aunt so-and-so wasn’t Emilia Earhart! You only overheard half of that fight!” Everything that Marla has said could be explained as a child you jumped to conclusions and only overheard small parts of conversations or misinterpreted. If we are using Occam’s Razor, Dewey and LD went hunting.

As an aside, it occurs to me that some of our postulating isn’t about solving the DB case but is about planning the perfect crime. How we wish DB could have gotten away with it. In any event, I enjoy it.

Tanya

[EVickiW 0]

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This was low class. If I were going to drop this kind of info about someone, I would not do it on a message board hiding behind a made up name. I would either have the balls to say it publicly or I would not say it at all.

It was low class and did not even NEED to be revealed to the public.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Orange1 0]

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This was low class. If I were going to drop this kind of info about someone, I would not do it on a message board hiding behind a made up name. I would either have the balls to say it publicly or I would not say it at all.

It was low class and did not even NEED to be revealed to the public.

Agree with the above. While the background of a potential Cooper would certainly be open to scrutiny, this is not the case for the "informant" ( for lack of a better word). Jo/Duane is a good example: Duane's past misdeeds/actions are open to scrutiny. Jo's (if there were any, which I do not think so) should be off-limits.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.