georger 197
It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero. Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver is another example. He was a rapist and a skyjacker but to many in the 60s he was a revolutionary hero. Maybe some sociologists or psychologists on this forum can shed some light on this phenomena.
Read Campbell's "Mythology".
georger 197
QuoteQuote
Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence
and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a
Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow.
weird..my timing is I'm going to be gone middle of next week.
REPLY: Must axe. Did a shrink ask you if you thought
about robbing banks? A guy I know who spent years
in the Hanoi Hilton used to plan 'things'. Youth can
also be confining, to some people.
georger 197
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero
did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug?
I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber.
Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer.
Why thug?
There is a dictionary on the internet.
ok:
1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.
2. also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.
Definitely on 2..... it all makes sense to me now!
Yep. Thuggies. Read about them in a history class.
Kali I never heard of. Maybe Cooper was a woman.
That's something we havent covered yet. We need the
dna for sure now!
georger 197
QuoteQuoteTheatrical performers and acrobats rely heavily on the power of illusion.
Be careful georger, I used the word "illusionist" and Ckret yelled at me!
Sluggo
That's nuthin. He told me I wallow!
georger 197
QuoteI would suggest you not do that.
SLUGGOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
.......................................
Oh and BTW, thanks for the NWA material.
javascript: addTag(';)') javascript: addTag(';)')
377 21
QuoteWant some help with “the lingo?”
Here are some of the abbreviations and acronyms used in the flight logs.
WAL = ? an airline
YUM = Yuma Marine Corps Air Station/Yuma International Airport
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Sluggo_Monster
WAL = Western Airlines
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Quoteload master.
REPLY: Load Master was one of the military careers
tured up in my DOT search. It requires physical agility
and little education but unfortunately if a LM had
worked in a 727 he would know how to get the reardoor open on the spot and probably would be more decisive
and able to make decisions than Cooper was.
I can find no hard evidence that USAF/ANG 727s were ever used for airdrops. If they were it was very unusual and covert.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteQuote
It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero
did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug?
I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber.
Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer.
Why thug?
Yeah, the bomb. Although Copper said otherwise, the crew had a very justifiable fear that Cooper would blow them up after he bailed out. It is a scenario that is technically easy and makes sense. It would have killed those who knew what he looked like. It wasn't just a word threat, he had a "bomb" and the crew had no way of knowing whether it was real or fake. That kind of terrorizing is thug stuff in my book. Just because Cooper didn't physically assault anyone doesn't get him out of my thug bucket. He gets this "gentleman bandit" aura which is complete BS if you look at the facts.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Does anyone remember the movie FBI Story? I saw it when I was a kid and was in awe. I even gave some thought to being an FBI agent when I grew up. That fantasy was put to rest years later when my girlfriend got a summer job typing up FBI wiretap transcripts from tapes. She told me that most of the agents she worked with were not happy campers. Waaay too much paperwork and jerky arbitrary bosses. Ckret of course cannot say AMEN, so we will never know if he echos this discontent.
One of the real-life crimes solved in the movie was an airliner bombing, a DC 6 as I recall. They looked for a motive (life insurance), IDed a suspect, found a piece of a branded dry cell battery in the wreckage and linked it to the bomb, researched the suspect's recent purchases (not easy in the pre credit card days) and proved he bought that exact kind of battery. He was convicted.
I wish we knew more about Cooper's "bomb". Might be some good clues there.
377
One of the real-life crimes solved in the movie was an airliner bombing, a DC 6 as I recall. They looked for a motive (life insurance), IDed a suspect, found a piece of a branded dry cell battery in the wreckage and linked it to the bomb, researched the suspect's recent purchases (not easy in the pre credit card days) and proved he bought that exact kind of battery. He was convicted.
I wish we knew more about Cooper's "bomb". Might be some good clues there.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Jo,
I was thinking of some crazy theories about Duane.
1) Was he ever interviewed as a Cooper suspect back around '71-'76 before you met him, as John Collins? He might have picked up the idea that he was a cool Cooper suspect back then
or:
2) If someone knew his past, and knew he would want to hide it and knew he liked money, could they have made a deal with him to have him do a fake deathbed confession. You have said before that sums of money seemed to appear ($100 bills I believe) of unknown origin.
I'm wondering if all this circumstantial stuff you saw could have been arranged on purpose as part of a deal to throw suspicion wrongly on a dead guy. (Duane). As long as Duane got the money while he was alive for the deal, it might seem reasonable (to some people).
I was thinking of some crazy theories about Duane.
1) Was he ever interviewed as a Cooper suspect back around '71-'76 before you met him, as John Collins? He might have picked up the idea that he was a cool Cooper suspect back then
or:
2) If someone knew his past, and knew he would want to hide it and knew he liked money, could they have made a deal with him to have him do a fake deathbed confession. You have said before that sums of money seemed to appear ($100 bills I believe) of unknown origin.
I'm wondering if all this circumstantial stuff you saw could have been arranged on purpose as part of a deal to throw suspicion wrongly on a dead guy. (Duane). As long as Duane got the money while he was alive for the deal, it might seem reasonable (to some people).
377 21
QuoteI've never said I'm not DB Cooper.
Could that "date with Sasquatch" be Snow-code? Could it mean he is headed for the NW woods to dig something up?
Maybe he really does have a date. Abominable Snowman and Sasquatch. Now there is a pairing that you wouldn't find on match.com. Use protection Snowman. Your brains and Sasquatch's brawn... yikes!
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteJo,
I was thinking of some crazy theories about Duane.
1) Was he ever interviewed as a Cooper suspect back around '71-'76 before you met him, as John Collins? He might have picked up the idea that he was a cool Cooper suspect back then
or:
2) If someone knew his past, and knew he would want to hide it and knew he liked money, could they have made a deal with him to have him do a fake deathbed confession. You have said before that sums of money seemed to appear ($100 bills I believe) of unknown origin.
I'm wondering if all this circumstantial stuff you saw could have been arranged on purpose as part of a deal to throw suspicion wrongly on a dead guy. (Duane). As long as Duane got the money while he was alive for the deal, it might seem reasonable (to some people).
Snowman,
You really think outside the box, which is a compliment. In this scenario Cooper could literally attend his own funeral.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteQuote
Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence
and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a
Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow.
weird..my timing is I'm going to be gone middle of next week.
REPLY: Must axe. Did a shrink ask you if you thought
about robbing banks? A guy I know who spent years
in the Hanoi Hilton used to plan 'things'. Youth can
also be confining, to some people.
Exactly. It amazes me that some people might read what I wrote, and say "OBVIOUSLY A CROOK"...another might read and say "poor guy, I wonder why he was talking to a shrink"
As you know, the thoughts that enter one's head when you read another's words, have at least 50% to do with what's in your own head.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteJo,
I was thinking of some crazy theories about Duane.
1) Was he ever interviewed as a Cooper suspect back around '71-'76 before you met him, as John Collins? He might have picked up the idea that he was a cool Cooper suspect back then
or:
2) If someone knew his past, and knew he would want to hide it and knew he liked money, could they have made a deal with him to have him do a fake deathbed confession. You have said before that sums of money seemed to appear ($100 bills I believe) of unknown origin.
I'm wondering if all this circumstantial stuff you saw could have been arranged on purpose as part of a deal to throw suspicion wrongly on a dead guy. (Duane). As long as Duane got the money while he was alive for the deal, it might seem reasonable (to some people).
Snowman,
You really think outside the box, which is a compliment. In this scenario Cooper could literally attend his own funeral.
377
Yes it's out there. I normally don't post anything or PM Jo anything that might continue to feed her thinking, just in case Jo grabs on to crazy thoughts too easily.
But I've been surprised lately by a number of her posts and PMs to me, and I think she is quite the rational person, like she says.
So I think it's fair to treat her like a normal person. I can throw out random thoughts with no evidence, and I'm sure she can dismiss them as necessary. I don't need to somehow protect her from random thoughts. She's a normal person.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI've never said I'm not DB Cooper.
Could that "date with Sasquatch" be Snow-code? Could it mean he is headed for the NW woods to dig something up?
Yes definitely. One has to remember every single post that was ever made. When Sluggo first introduced it as a "meme", he also mentioned a height.
Every detail matters.
(edit) I was thinking it'd be funny if I was to show up on the forum with a picture of me standing on Tena Bar. :) Or maybe I'm going to bury a DZ.com banner with Sluggo's name on it at Tena Bar...Then everyone will know Sluggo was Cooper!
QuoteThen everyone will know Sluggo was Cooper!
Sluggo was 23 years old when Cooper; "Got the show on the road" and pulled his disappearing act to the amazement of many,
Gotta go meet an airplane with a little boy on it.
Later guys,
Sluggo
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
on the last page of the new transcript (17)
there is a communication at 0413:14 (8:13 PM, PST)
It seems like it's right around the time were we're going to be looking for the pressure bump.
"NW 305 Center four oh five (unintelligible) twenty point nine ten thousand"
From the context, "ten thousand" seems to be an altitude report. But what is "Center 405 unintelligible" and "20.9" Are they reporting a belief that Cooper may have jumped? (maybe based on oscillations).
That phrase and number(s) don't seem to appear anywhere else.
In other places, numbers refer to radio frequencies, altitudes, or altimeter info. Usually you can tell from context. For instance VHF is being used, we'd expect them radio frequences to be >100 mhz, say... but that doesn't seem right for this particular report.
125.8 for instance is a frequency at 0433:36
133.9 is a frequency at 0359:10 (page 16)
Note the exchange in question was already in the previously released transcripts on page 71..but Sluggo didn't decode it for us, I think? in his timeline?
there is a communication at 0413:14 (8:13 PM, PST)
It seems like it's right around the time were we're going to be looking for the pressure bump.
"NW 305 Center four oh five (unintelligible) twenty point nine ten thousand"
From the context, "ten thousand" seems to be an altitude report. But what is "Center 405 unintelligible" and "20.9" Are they reporting a belief that Cooper may have jumped? (maybe based on oscillations).
That phrase and number(s) don't seem to appear anywhere else.
In other places, numbers refer to radio frequencies, altitudes, or altimeter info. Usually you can tell from context. For instance VHF is being used, we'd expect them radio frequences to be >100 mhz, say... but that doesn't seem right for this particular report.
125.8 for instance is a frequency at 0433:36
133.9 is a frequency at 0359:10 (page 16)
Note the exchange in question was already in the previously released transcripts on page 71..but Sluggo didn't decode it for us, I think? in his timeline?
Quoteon the last page of the new transcript (17)
there is a communication at 0413:14 (8:13 PM, PST)
It seems like it's right around the time were we're going to be looking for the pressure bump.
"NW 305 Center four oh five (unintelligible) twenty point nine ten thousand"
From the context, "ten thousand" seems to be an altitude report. But what is "Center 405 unintelligible" and "20.9" Are they reporting a belief that Cooper may have jumped? (maybe based on oscillations).
That phrase and number(s) don't seem to appear anywhere else.
In other places, numbers refer to radio frequencies, altitudes, or altimeter info. Usually you can tell from context. For instance VHF is being used, we'd expect them radio frequences to be >100 mhz, say... but that doesn't seem right for this particular report.
125.8 for instance is a frequency at 0433:36
133.9 is a frequency at 0359:10 (page 16)
Note the exchange in question was already in the previously released transcripts on page 71..but Sluggo didn't decode it for us, I think? in his timeline?
This occurred right before the comm. loss at 8:22 so that’s not the issue.
Here’s my read on it, (But, I’m open to other suggestions): Pilots always say: Who they are calling; who they are; and what they have or want.
So, using that as the framework I get:
STATEMENT (Interpretation)
Center (Seattle ARTCC), 405 (maybe nervousness, he meant 305 (Flight #)), Unintelligible (probably corrected 405 to 305 and said the word “One”), twenty point nine (this and the unintelligible would be the frequency 121.9 MHz), ten thousand (altitude)
Because many aircraft use the same frequency, pilots tend to talk in a continuous stream (this was something I struggled with as a student)
For instance, I might make this call-up:
Ground Cessna seven three one whiskey x-ray runway 32 takeoff with kilo.
Which means: Ground Control, this is Cessna 731WX, I wish to taxi to runway 32 and take off from that runway. I have the wind and altimeter readings that were broadcast on ATIS as “Information K (kilo)”.
So, I believe he had hit a reporting point on his route and was reporting the frequency he was calling on and altitude. I would feel better about this interpretation if he had said “Radio” instead of “Center”. The ARTTC monitors many frequencies, but broadcast on one at a time, so, sometimes you need to tell them what frequency you are on.
I welcome a better explanation.
Sluggo
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
Quotewhat is "Center 405 unintelligible" and "20.9"
"Center 405 unintelligible"
Standard aviation radio calls start out
1) Who you're calling --"(Seattle) Center"
2) Who you are -- "(flight) 405"
"20.9" would be an abbreviation for "120.9" the VHF frequency to which they might have been directed to change to contact the next controller.
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."
"Your statement answered your question."
snowmman 3
QuoteQuotewhat is "Center 405 unintelligible" and "20.9"
"Center 405 unintelligible"
Standard aviation radio calls start out
1) Who you're calling --"(Seattle) Center"
2) Who you are -- "(flight) 405"
"20.9" would be an abbreviation for "120.9" the VHF frequency to which they might have been directed to change to contact the next controller.
(edit) Good point itllclear. They may have used 20.9 as an abbreviation. Like "Center" as abbreviation for "Seattle Center". They may have been mentally rushed for some reason at that point.
Yup. it makes sense now. Those interpretations hold water.
I was half wondering if the oscillations started then and maybe distracted them, so radio communications were a little distorted. Was wondering about possible background noise due to oscillations, but I doubt there would have been a change in background air noise, since the cockpit door was closed.
Right around then, a lot was going on I suppose in the cockpit. So seems reasonable that some communication may have been garbled, compared to other times.
snowmman 3
I just had a crazy idea that the "battery" in Cooper's fake bomb might not have been a 1.5v dry cell like Sluggo has put forward, if Cooper had aviation background.
I'm wondering if it's an aviation battery of some kind, that maybe was in use in 1971. I have zero aviation knowledge, so am looking for feedback on whether this is just a screwy idea.
I found this patent that talks about a precedent of fourteen 2v batteries used for 28v auxiliary aircraft power. One of those cells may have been Cooper's battery?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=7&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4775826&OS=4775826&RS=4775826
Battery system for auxiliary aircraft power - US Patent 4775826
Prior battery packs for 28 volt auxiliary aircraft power, however, were usually composed of a bank of fourteen lead acid cells of 2 volts each. ...
I've attached a modern picture of a 2v sealed lead-acid cell, which is what got me thinking about this.
I'm wondering if it's an aviation battery of some kind, that maybe was in use in 1971. I have zero aviation knowledge, so am looking for feedback on whether this is just a screwy idea.
I found this patent that talks about a precedent of fourteen 2v batteries used for 28v auxiliary aircraft power. One of those cells may have been Cooper's battery?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=7&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4775826&OS=4775826&RS=4775826
Battery system for auxiliary aircraft power - US Patent 4775826
Prior battery packs for 28 volt auxiliary aircraft power, however, were usually composed of a bank of fourteen lead acid cells of 2 volts each. ...
I've attached a modern picture of a 2v sealed lead-acid cell, which is what got me thinking about this.
Quote
1) Was he ever interviewed as a Cooper suspect back around '71-'76 before you met him, as John Collins?
Be assured that IF that had ever happened the FBI would have been on to his confession like flys to honey.
Quote
2) You have said before that sums of money seemed to appear ($100 bills I believe) of unknown origin.
The dream was in 1977, the trip to WA was in 1979 and a confession in 1995. Plus all of the times he mentioned things indirectly regarding remorse about things and the hardship it had created for others --- this ocurred thru out the marraige.
Due to the time span and the information being fed to me over a 17 yr period of time...I would say no to your theory.
QuoteI'm wondering if all this circumstantial stuff you saw could have been arranged on purpose as part of a deal to throw suspicion wrongly on a dead guy. (Duane). As long as Duane got the money while he was alive for the deal, it might seem reasonable (to some people
The yrs involved during the marriage discount the above hypothesis.
It is my belief that in 1990 when he went to Tallahassee and disappeared for a day (he was with his friend - they set up at a flea market having acquired a truck load of stuffed animals and novelty store items) he went to retrieve something else that required an John C. Collins ID.
This is the same friend who told me about walking in the shop a few days later (after their Tallahassee trip) - Duane was counting all of that money - he therefore did not think I had any money problems due to the amount of cash he saw.
The friend and I did not discuss his disappearing act or the money until I went to see him in 1996 regarding what Duane had told me in the hospital. This was after I spoke with the FBI the first time - I was trying to find out if he had ever known Duane to tell tales or do anything he thought was ODD. I was upset and needed to talk to him.
This is when he mentioned the Tallahasee trip and Duane"s disappearance. This also explained an airline ticket charged to my account. Duane kept saying that it was an error and he nor I had flown anywhere. The credit card company kept putting it back on the bill and later on that yr. Duane paid it - I questioned why pay something we didn't owe.
My memory of the time span coincides with the Tallahassee trip.
This mean he flew someplace from Tallahasse on a thursday night and return late Friday or early Sat.
He was there to help his friend with the market on Sat and Sun.
The trip to Tallahassee, the airline ticket and the money all occured in the samy time perioud. This is also the same time frame the ticket stub, the ticket and the bank bag came into existence. ALL - after he had acquired a new drivers license under the name of John C. Collins. I still do not know how he did this when the other county caught him and he spent 72 hrs being evalutated...no charges where made because of his doctor and myself - we related the problem to his having just gone on dialysis...twice a wk. He was able to take 4 day wk ends at the beginning of his treatment.
I will also NOTE that the shop got robbed a few weeks later - he went to the back of the shop behind a door looking frantically for something - and it was gone. He just said "it's gone now".
He never told me what it was or why he had it hid in the shop under junk behind a door.
This drivers license was in the hidden wallet along with other things including the obit on his parents and the commutation of sentence. There was various other ID under the Collins name - obviously forged.
This is the wallet I did not find when I cleaned out the VAN after he told me to be sure to check it and I just replied to him "I know you keep things in the VAN." I didn't listen to what-ever he was saying because he told me this on the same day he made the decision to remove himself from treatment and the day the told me he was Dan Coooper. I just didn't get it. DUMB OLD ME.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Thanks for the detail Jo. Clears up some things for me.
Please explain "both of Weber's signatures" I only see one signature and the other signature is a different name and it states impression taker. WHERE are you all seeing Duane L. Weber twice????????????????????
You know Duane was left handed, but at this time I refuse to tell anyone if that is his signature or not - The numbers are perplexing to me. I will later - much later post several signatures by Duane, but I have to dig them out and I am not up to that this week.
How do I get all of that download on one page and are the 2 downloads different? One was just larger than the other - right.
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