georger 197 #29401 December 29, 2011 QuoteRobert99: You say "You have been pushing a Cooper candidate as hard as anyone else on this thread but the candidate you propose can be completely eliminated by your own recent admissions." Question Robert: What "recent admission" (of mine) would eliminate Sheridan Peterson? He does fit the descriptions (DB profile) and the only thing that has stopped the FBI is his perfect alibi of being in Nepal and writing his book in a mud hut. Are you trying to discredit what I post? You should work to make this thread move forward and stop your constant jiberish to accomplish nothing but noise. As has been said you are just using-up the bandwidth of the thread. Bob sailshaw Everyone here seems to have limitations and a bias, some a very strong bias, it seems. This current emphasis on "data" (Snowmman style) belies the fact nobody has complete data! It was Labrys, who most have forgotten here, who correctly coined and identified the Cooper curse as being "Outlines". And nothing but outlines. The current crop of "outliners" notwithstanding. Labrys is so far this thread's number one hero! Yet to be outdone and possibly never will be outdone no matter who or how many "data estimators" try. Sluggo defined it another way: "the missing link". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29402 December 30, 2011 Quote Amazon: Just want you to remember to dress just like Cooper a suit and loafers with brief case and money bag tied loosly to your side. Jump at the same time of year and time of day under the same conditions in the same area. Smoke the cigs and drink the booze then make the jump and walk out with the money, simple and easy according to you. You have stated many times you could pull this off. Now prove it.After all your experienced and have a large advantage over Cooper. I'll see if Donald Trump will loan you his jet. I believe his aft stairs still works. Jerry PS we'll see if Cosey will duplicate the chute Cooper used for you and we'll even place a tracking system on the chute so we will know where to find you, One more thing I believe Cooper only had a used book of matches. How about we do it together Jerry... I will even hold your hand so that you won't be so skeered Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29403 December 30, 2011 Robert99: Just got off the phone with Gary Tallis. He's one of the retired FBI investigators that was involved in the search for Cooper immediately after the Hijacking. He was also at the airport in Seattle. While Cooper was on the ground. He was then dispatched to portland and spent the next 2 weeks searching for Cooper in a Helicopter.He will be joining us here on dropzone.very shortly. 377 you should remember him he was at the symposim . Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29404 December 30, 2011 Amazon: I refuse to make that jump. I'd have to be a walking bottle of Scotch to even consider it. Maybe 377 will join you, although I doubt it.This is all on you . Your the one that says it's simple and bragged that you can pull it off, so have fun. The credit is all yours. I'll guarantee you a spot on nationall TV when your done. it will be great publicity for you. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29405 December 30, 2011 Quote Amazon: I refuse to make that jump. I'd have to be a walking bottle of Scotch to even consider it. Maybe 377 will join you, although I doubt it.This is all on you . Your the one that says it's simple and bragged that you can pull it off, so have fun. The credit is all yours. I'll guarantee you a spot on nationall TV when your done. it will be great publicity for you. Jerry Yeah I kinda thought you would be adverse to making ANY jumpI would not need liquid courage.... I rarely if EVER driink... and I quit sucking nasty ass smoke into my lungs in the late 70's. I refer you back to a few posts I made long ago.... Show me da money Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #29406 December 30, 2011 QuoteRobert99: Just got off the phone with Gary Tallis. ..... .He will be joining us here on dropzone.very shortly. 377 you should remember him he was at the symposim . Jerry That's great, Jerry. I talked to Gary at the symposium. He was sitting right across the aisle from me and was almost right behind Marla. He was very interesting. I'm looking forward to reading what he has to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29407 December 30, 2011 Amazon: Just what I thought. I didn't think you would do it.I doubt that any one else would try it either. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #29408 December 30, 2011 QuoteAmazon: I refuse to make that jump. I'd have to be a walking bottle of Scotch to even consider it. Maybe 377 will join you, although I doubt it.This is all on you . Your the one that says it's simple and bragged that you can pull it off, so have fun. The credit is all yours. I'll guarantee you a spot on nationall TV when your done. it will be great publicity for you. Jerry Ya know . . . this is an interesting point I'm not really certain we've ever explored. A LOT of people continue to assume DB Cooper was at least trained as a skydiver if not a professional military or smoke jumper, yet I don't think I know a whole lot of skydivers, military or otherwise that have ever "needed" a drink before jumping. In fact, it's generally not something that goes with making a jump. Inadvisable really. (Afterward in the DZ bar is a WHOLE other topic.) Kind of sounds more like an inexperienced person trying to screw up the courage exactly as Jerry has suggested.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29409 December 30, 2011 Quote Amazon: Just what I thought. I didn't think you would do it.I doubt that any one else would try it either. Jerry Show me da Money.... .9999 fine thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29410 December 30, 2011 Quade: That is the point, no one in there right mind would make a jump under the influence, at least no experienced jumper. Many things Cooper did points to inexperience with a large dose of stupidity. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #29411 December 30, 2011 ...yet I don't think I know a whole lot of skydivers, military or otherwise that have ever "needed" a drink before jumping. In fact, it's generally not something that goes with making a jump. Inadvisable really. Quote Trust me Paul...it WAS a bit different in the 70's. There was some drinking goin' on at the DZ...before, during & after 'operations'. I even had to hold the pilots beer during take-off during MY 1st jump. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29412 December 30, 2011 QuoteAmazon: Just what I thought. I didn't think you would do it.I doubt that any one else would try it either. Jerry OK tough guy, I will do it. You need to get the funds and equipment, I will even use Amazan's offered rig. Conditions - Since the argument is the exit and stability we will jump over a DZ. The rest will be as you ask, weather, time, altitude, etc. Here is your responsibilities: Get two sources (eye witnesses) of proof of how he tied the bag on, no speculation. Get the 727 FAA certified and paid for no less than 2 jumps. Get the shoes and suit. OR You can just except that the numerous people here who have jumped not only the 727 but numerous other Jets and High Performance Aircraft are right. Cooper COULD HAVE exited just fine and been stable, chances are if he had even a minimal amount of experience this is not too hard to do. The whole argument he went into a tumble or spin and it caused his death, is one of ignorance. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29413 December 30, 2011 artwardo: Its a good thing the FAA didn't find out about the pilots action's. They would have suspended his liscense. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29414 December 30, 2011 Matt: It must be under the same conditions Cooper had. No designated DZ . Booze and all.And you must walk to safety. No assistance.Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29415 December 30, 2011 after reading all of this over several days, I have come to a conclusion that he either made it or he didn't lol "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29416 December 30, 2011 Quoteartwardo: Its a good thing the FAA didn't find out about the pilots action's. They would have suspended his liscense. Jerry OK, that was a different time and a different culture. Why do you still insist on trying to tell experts in their field how things should work in that field? How many drinks did Cooper ACTUALLY DRINK? Not how many did he order, but actually consumed. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29417 December 30, 2011 QuoteMatt: It must be under the same conditions Cooper had. No designated DZ . Booze and all.And you must walk to safety. No assistance.Jerry That was not your argument, your argument was the exit and freefall stability. I called you on it. If you knew any thing about the argument you would not be making it. If I recall, I think we agree, on our opinions (ie no facts to back it up) , that Cooper did not walk out of the woods. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29418 December 30, 2011 QuoteI think they found 8 cigarette butts, I don't think this makes him a "chain smoker" because he was probably nervous causing him to smoke like that? FYI: He was not a chain smoker. He smoked when he could afford it or when he could bum them. He was ALWAYS bumming, then he'd put them behind his ear. If he bought a pack they were a soft menthol brand. Lady cigarettes. He liked the flavor. He was told to smoke 'coupon' cigarettes to help establish a profile, talk firm, no swearing, say you have a 'grudge'. DO NOT SMILE! Yes, he was nervous. Wasn't sure he'd make it, and they don't serve drinks before or after dinner in the clink. But Jerry should know all that, right, Jerry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29419 December 30, 2011 Matt: I've always stated that it was my belief that he was inexperienced and that his actions proved it. The rest was problem area's he would of had to over come to survive the jump. I personally don't think he could have survived. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29420 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteMatt: It must be under the same conditions Cooper had. No designated DZ . Booze and all.And you must walk to safety. No assistance.Jerry That was not your argument, your argument was the exit and freefall stability. I called you on it. If you knew any thing about the argument you would not be making it. If I recall, I think we agree, on our opinions (ie no facts to back it up) , that Cooper did not walk out of the woods. Matt That is beyond the realm of simple reality. McCoy jumped BECAUSE Weber made it, and he improved the procedure by backing down the stairs. That big chicken would never have jumped if Duane had not made it. "Cooper" stopped by in Omaha for a belated Thanksgiving with Denny Nichols and family. Dead man walking?? Duhhhhh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29421 December 30, 2011 QuoteMatt: I've always stated that it was my belief that he was inexperienced and that his actions proved it. The rest was problem area's he would of had to over come to survive the jump. I personally don't think he could have survived. Jerry I agree I do not think he came out of the woods, however even an inexperienced jumper would have been able to get stable after leaving the plane. A low experience jumper, a mid range military trained survivalist, with a little luck could have made and survived the jump, and then walked out. It is not impossible. I find your reasoning for your arguments, incorrect. Does this mean your withdrawing you challenge, since it was excepted? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #29422 December 30, 2011 QuoteThe whole argument he went into a tumble or spin and it caused his death, is one of ignorance. Matt Please permit me to quote, without further comment, the following: "Aerodynamics is a beautifully INTELLECTUAL [italics in the original source] discipline, incorporating elements from a millennium of human thought that finally coalesced during the nineteenth century to produce the exponential growth in powered flight that we see today". SOURCE: Dr. John D. Anderson, Jr., "A History of Aerodynamics and Its Impact on Flying Machines", page 3, Cambridge University Press, 1997. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #29423 December 30, 2011 QuoteWhy do you still insist on trying to tell experts in their field how things should work in that field? Matt An excellent observation. But would you be kind enough to state the field and the experts you are referring to in the above statement? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29424 December 30, 2011 QuoteMatt: I've always stated that it was my belief that he was inexperienced and that his actions proved it. The rest was problem area's he would of had to over come to survive the jump. I personally don't think he could have survived. Jerry Show us the bones, oh wise one. No bones, then he made it. More evidence shortages, Jerry. Not only can't you prove it. you can't even suggest one bit of corroborating theory. Name one person who died jumping out the tail of a 727, including the ones you are trying to coax out. Ain't no bones, ain't no more money, ain't no more Cooper, ain't no more hijackings, well, except the Towers almost none. Give 'em three Silver Stars, one each. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29425 December 30, 2011 Matt: I assure you im will beyound a mid range military survivalist. I was a chief Instructor at NWTC (Northern Warfare Training Center) Ft greely Alaska. Which is the top of the schools for all services for survival training. I have many other qualifications.My point is surviving this operation. So no I do not withdraw my challenge. And I still believe the man did not survive this Jump. However if you feel your Ego has been challenged and you wish to try this jump under the same conditions Cooper did , Identical in every way, Im sure we can find some sponsors. Remember this is untested territory and Cooper didn't even walk out of the woods with the money.If you do then you have proven that LD Cooper , Christsen, Petersen. Weber and all the other candidates may have survived this jump. Although it is clear that you are more experienced than any of them. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
