My Thoughts on Jumping AADs

[bhale 0]

Because if you use one rig more than the other, you still get very good protection for the price. I have a main and a backup rig, and I have a cypres in the main one. I jump it 95% of the time, so I often have the benefit of having one.
I use both of my rigs all day, back to back, the only reason for owning 2 rigs. I don't have the luxury of using one 95% of the day. Small DZ, limited staff, jump hard.

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Yeah, we all do - even after the first cutaway, you worry how you will handle the next one. I figure the worrying keeps you on your toes and thus alive when you need it.

[Remster 24]

just make the stupid things mandatory and bury this debate..... people are already wanting to know which is the safest eliptical canopies.....
Remster
Muff 914

[Kirils 1]

After I bought my Chaos, I was concerned about a misfire under canopy with my Cypres. It's a concern with a lot of HP canopy flyers. I use an Astra now and I feel much safer under canopy than with the Cypres. After opening, I turn the
Astra off with a flick of my finger. I really think it's the best way to go if you fly anything hot.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[GrumpySmurf 0]

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safest eliptical canopies

Now there's an oxymoron

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just make the stupid things mandatory

Yeah, but you know how Yanks get when someone tells them what to do.

[caseyusa 0]

so I just did exactly what Jim did in an earlier post... did the math out saying how 25 jumps on two weekends would buy you the aad. i just edited the post to save you from the math though... so maybe i should finish a string before adding! heh oops! :)
---
It's like a farmer, out-standing in his field.

[freeflir29 0]

I've been thinking more and more about this lately. Of course, I jumped with an AAD as a student. First an FXC and then a Cypres. I remember saying as a student that I would never jump without an AAD. Then I did the first time. Then I bought my own rig with no Cypres. Since then I have been able to operate my handles on every jump. I always wear a hard helmet. Still....I'm thinking the smart thing would be to buy a Cypres. May save my life some day. I have a lot to live for.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[billvon 2,400]

>This may just be me, but I thought everyone worried about how they would
>handle an emergency until they had one. Do I practice my emergency
>procedures - yes, do handle touches - yes, mental rehersal - yes. Do do I
>wonder what I would do if it really happened - yes.
I felt the same way before my first mal. I wondered how I would react. I thought it might take longer than it did to recognize the mal, I wondered how I would feel. But I never seriously wondered if I would just "lock up" and not do anything before I hit the ground.
I think everyone has doubts as to how they will handle a mal. If there are skydivers out there with serious doubts that they will be able to cut away from a mal at all - skydiving may demand more from them than they can give.
-bill von

[billvon 2,400]

>You missed the entire point of what I was saying, both were proficient
> freeflyers. They were NOT relying on their cypresses to save them, however
> in the unfortunate and unexpected case of a collision where one person is
> knocked unconcouss, a cypress is a wonderful thing...
I agree. Unfortunately, I often hear the phrase " . . . that's why I have a cypres" when it comes to accepting collisions between freeflyers. I hear it when experienced jumpers take a new head-downer on a 4-way. "What if he corks? Well, that's why I have a cypres." Had they not had a cypres, perhaps they would have decided to take the newbie on a 2-way instead. The cypres gave them the extra, false sense of security that encouraged them to do the more dangerous dive.
I think the soft-handle thing is similar. If you decide to get soft handles for an extra measure of protection, and the added protection against premature deployments is worth the added risk of not being able to deploy when you need to, then go for it. If a soft handle means you are more willing to risk body contact during a jump - a soft handle may do you more harm than good.
Anyway, I have a cypres for several reasons, one of them being "in case I get knocked out." It's not the main reason, but it's certainly one of them. Used as a backup, it's an added measure of safety. I hope people aren't using them for more than that, but I think, too often, people use them as the extra 'edge' they need to do more dangerous stuff with the same safety margin.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

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use them as the extra 'edge' they need to do more dangerous stuff with the same safety margin.

I think that's pretty standard across the board. We still have the same number of fatalities per jumps even though the equipment has come so far. *shrug*
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[Hooknswoop 19]

I completely agree with what Bill is saying. If someone adds a "safety" device to their equipment and then figures they can do more dangerous activities that may rely on that piece of "safety" equipment, they are less safe than they were before they started using that piece of "safety" equipment.
I had about 750 jumps before I got a cypres in my rig. I don't remember it ever playing a role in my descion making process before a jump, I don't remember ever really thinking about it. I made about 1500 jumps w/ a cypres, then sold it. I remember wondering, and hoping it wouldn't, if not having a cypres would change the way I jump. It didn't. I never really noticed any difference between jumping with or without a cypres.
A question:
#1. How many (assume everyone is qualified) people would jump on a 300 way?
#2. How many of those answering "yes" would jump on a 300 way without a cypres.
If anyone answers "yes" to #1 and "no" to #2, they would fall into the catagory Bill describes.
It would be interesting to poll all the 300 way participants and find out how many had a cypres and how many wouldn't have done the 300 ways without one.
Hook

[Jasmin 0]

I totally concur: a premi won't DEFINATELY kill you, hitting the dirt 'cause you have nothing over your head will. I know this is an extreme case, but worst case-scenario is exactly that. An aussie jumper had his pilot chute come out between his legs as he transitioned from head down to head up. He did a total 360^ at terminal. He did survive. But its a case of each to their own.
As for making cypresses mandatory: less than B-licence equals mandatory cypress here in Australia. It was introduced a year ago, and since then there has been a cypress save.....

[thrillseek 0]

My concern with the Cypres or any other AAD for that matter is the cost. I am currently jumping without one simply because i can't afford the extra $900 it will cost. As a matter of principle, i believe in them. I have seen a couple of people with a Cypres fire, and really doubt they could have gained awareness and pulled in time. In a perfect world, these things would drop in price. I'd be willing to bet the companies making them and servicing them would make more $$ in the long run if they sold new for $400-500. Just my $.02
~~A.T.~~

[lummy 4]

Except you can also buy them used if $900 is too stiff a price to pay...... $400 for one that is 6 or 7 years old still buys you 5 to 6 years to save up for a new one....
One shot... HEY!!! Mas Tequila!!!! Two Shots HEY HEY!!!! Three Shots.......

[Skyrose7 0]

I paid $400 or 450 for mine and it is 4yrs. old. I figure it just needs to do its job if ever necessary. I don't care if it is new.
The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP.

[christoofar 0]

You said it, brother! When I came off student status I spent the entire summer hopping and popping as well as doing some RW but I got a lot out of the hop and pops:
Getting used to sitting next to the door
Altitute Appreciation (not awareness. when I do high-pulls now I really appreciate how low 2,000ft. really is. I tend to pull much higher now on regular jumps no matter how "uncool" it is)
Goggleless, helmetless jumping and figuring out how to see clearly (a perfect box keeps the wind out of your eyes)
Inspecting, inspecting and reinspecting rental gear (no AAD).
Learning to love large canopies and landing by yourself, using only ponds to judge windspeed and direction.
I must say I gained a comfort level with skydiving from doing all those hops (as well as getting my jump count to 100), but better yet my accuracy has improved greatly and I now would never, never expect an AAD to save my life for me. It is what it is advertised to be: solely a backup device. It is made by humans, and it is subject to malfunction. I feel comfortable when I'm wearing them, and when I'm not.
It is your arms and hands, your eyes and your brain that get you safely to the ground. Loss and/or impairment of any of them greatly increases your risk of injury/fatality. Having no brain to begin with, as in jumping with a false expectation that the AAD will be there for you when you need it, could be the kiss of death.
In God We Trust. All others pay cash.

[nigel99 144]

I am no longer a current diver (am hoping to start again soon), but when I started jumping on T-tens (africa) and no AAD's and doing F-Fall delays from 4K etc I did it and enjoyed the sport (stoped because of marriage...)
However even upto a 100 jumps I was scared, I have had a mal and dealt with it, but when I start jumping again I will definetly have an AAD as I would prefer to have every safety device available to me. For me safety devices RSL/AAD/larger canopies add to the enjoyment because for me to overcome fear of heights is the rush.
Just my 0.02 worth