Check that Chest Strap

[webracer 0]

Please do your gear checks. At a chicago-area DZ on sunday, a jumper on a load with me (using a borrowed rig) had the chest strap come undone in freefall. The jumper then experienced line twists on a Stiletto and was considering a cutaway but was afraid to go back into freefall. The jumper got out of the line twists, and landed safely, but was very shaken. This could have turned out much worse. Please do the proper gear checks and make sure your chest strap is fastened/routed properly.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

As I discussed before, this is why I like the idea of getting gear checks before being allowed to get on the plane.
There's no tomorrow - you ain't gonna live it for me - The Offspring

[drenaline 0]

Skydivers should always remember to make the check of threes before entering the aircraft.
Check three-ring release, three points of harness attachment and the three operation handles.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[billvon 2,478]

I once caught a completely disconnected chest strap about 10 seconds before exit on a large sequential record attempt. It was on an AFF-JM with several thousand jumps. It can happen to anyone.
As a side note, if you ever do find yourself in freefall with an unthreaded chest strap, pull and cross your arms in front of you. It's unlikely that the harness will come off even without doing this as long as it fits well; but it will improve your chances.
-bill von

[AndyMan 7]

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I once caught a completely disconnected chest strap about 10 seconds before exit on a large sequential record attempt. It was on an AFF-JM with several thousand jumps. It can happen to anyone.

I was on a jump this weekend at Archway. Archway spots themselves, they don't use the GPS. At 12.5 I was just starting my last-minute gear check, somebody glances out the door, frantically yells 'cut' and starts climbing out. I was in the first group. The previous load had gone to 14.
I was front float. As I was hanging on to the floater bar my chest strap was blowing in the wind. I was sure I had done it up, but I wondered if I might've done something really stupid. I didn't have enough time to check, the formation left without me, me still holding onto the King Air trying to make sure my chest strap was done up.
It was done up, it had only come out of the keeper. I managed to dive down to the formation, so I didn't COMPLETELY hose the jump. It whacked me in the neck all the way down...
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[bmcd308 0]

I posted this over on Talkback, but I guess this is really the forum (and thread) for it, so I'll retell the tale here.
This weekend a guy with about 20 or so jumps asked for a gear check from an up jumper, received said gear check, then headed out to the plane. The pilot had been fueling the plane between runs, so he was boarding as well. As we were standing around waiting to board, the pilot pointed out to him that his chest strap was undone. He thanked the pilot and fastened it. I asked him whether he got a gear check before he came out, and the up jumper who checked his gear was actually on the load. What kind of pissed me off about the whole thing was the attitude of the up jumper, who said "both pins were seated" and acted like that was the end of the issue.
I really think that when someone asks you for a gear check, you have an obligation to give a good one. I know we don't like to be obligated, so I'll just ask you to give a good one.
Guys, if I ask you for a gear check, please do it like I might die if my shit isn't right.
Please look to make sure my Cypres is on. Please check both my pins. When you check my main pin, make sure that you can see some green in the observation window of my bridle, because my pilot chute works better when it is cocked. Please make sure my flaps and riser covers are squared away and that my risers are not doing anything funky over my shoulders. Please make sure my bridle isn't hanging out. Please make sure all three handles are where they are supposed to be. Please make sure my three rings are correctly assembled. Please make sure my RSL is not hooked to my three rings, and let me know if it is not hooked up (don't just assume I want to jump without it). Please make sure my reserve cable has the little ball doohickey on the end so that the handle actually operates something. Please look at my chest strap to make sure it is correctly routed and tug on it to verify. Please look at both my leg straps to make sure they are not twisted. If I have B-12 snaps, make sure the gates work. Are my shoes tied? Do I have a helmet? Do I have an altimeter? Do I have goggles? Am I wearing my gloves when it is 50 degrees on the ground so I don't really need them there but 30 degrees at altitude and I always forget that? Then say something cute like "you'll probably live", smile at me, and tell me to have a good skydive. Elapsed time: 2 minutes tops.
I may not thank you as adequately as I should at the time, because I might be rushing to get to the plane or something, but I really do appreciate it when people take a moment to make sure I'm squared away.
BMcD...

[PhreeZone 15]

There is a difference between a pin check and a full gear check. Most jumpers assume you can give your own gear check and just give a pin check. If you want me to check anything more then your pins, PC, riser covers and bridle... you have to tell me, other wise I'm not going to look.
On the same note, while on the climb to altitude look around at your gear then the poeple next to you. A quick look from across the plane can tell you thier 3 ring and chect strap status.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[Remster 26]

I'd agree with you Phree... If you want a full gear check, ask for it. If all you ask for is a pin check, thats all you're geting from me. Many jumpers do not like having their reserve flaps open (you can see the pin by just raising it a bit, but you need to open most to see the cypres for exemple). And if thats what they want, fine by me.
Remster
Muff 914

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Umm, check also here..
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forumsafetytraining&Number=138211&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&part=
Cya
D
Gravity Rat # 37
Remember, we can do everything right, and still get hurt.

[billvon 2,478]

>Guys, if I ask you for a gear check, please do it like I might die if my shit isn't
> right.
I would be happy to do that if you ask for it, but you have to ask for it. You can't just say "Hey, give me a pin check" or just turn around and point when I come near you.
Conversely, if I ask _you_ for a main pin check, please just give me a main pin check. Don't try to check my reserve pin (you can't) or my cypres (you can't) or my RSL (I disconnect and reconnect it pretty often.) Don't try to tighten my leg straps, because I have a system to deal with them. Don't check my jumpsuit because I often have stuff I have to stick inside them (like radios.) Just a main pin check is fine.
>I may not thank you as adequately as I should at the time, because I might be
> rushing to get to the plane or something, but I really do appreciate it when
> people take a moment to make sure I'm squared away.
No problem, but don't rush so much that you aren't giving _yourself_ a good gear check. That's more important than any gear check someone else gives you.
-bill von

[bmcd308 0]

don't rush so much that you aren't giving _yourself_ a good gear check. That's more important than any gear check someone else gives you.
Roger that. I always inspect my rig thoroughly before I put it on and then give myself a good check after. If I ask you for a gear check and something is wrong, I'll be both very appreciative and a little embarrassed.
Also, I don't want to start an argument with you, since I have agreed with probably 99.789% of everything I have read above your name in these forums, as well as the bulk of your message here. If the rest of this post seems argumentative, it is only because it is difficult to disagree on a forum without sounding like you're really going after someone else's position. But anyway, here goes:
The gear check vs. main pin check thing is something we really don't do at my dropzone (WTS near Memphis). Everyone calls it a gear check, and we basically do all the checks that you'd do for an AFF student. At least that is what I do, and that is what people do for me. This may be because there are several AFF-I's running around the place, and they are generally the people that I ask. They are also generally the people who ask me, and they make sure that I do it all.
When I am giving a gear check to another jumper whose equipment prevents my going through the whole list, I will say out loud "I can't see your Cypres; I can't check your reserve pin" or whatever just to jog his/her memory. If your RSL is undone, I will not hook it up, but I will mention it to you, as it is your gear, not mine.
But I doubt your leg strap system includes having one or both straps twisted right before you board the plane. I do not know that I have ever thought about checking for tightness, but if they were visibly loose, I suppose that would get mentioned to you, also.
But anyway, if you say "main pin check", I'll probably make you verify that your main pin is all you care to have me look at. However, I'll probably look you over on the sly, and if you start to board the aircraft with your chest strap undone, I'll probably just be rude and mention it. Please show me the same lack of courtesy.
I hope we have the chance to meet someday. I have several of your posts printed out, as they are very clear statements of great info. I also hope you don't get the impression that we are arguing, since I don't really think we are.
I did not really know that a more cursory examination was standard practice for some, and I was disappointed that a guy who isn't even qualified for his A yet was on his way out to the plane without a chest strap. When combined with the recent fatalities, I guess I got onto a bit of a rant.
Stay safe.
BMcD...

[billvon 2,478]

>The gear check vs. main pin check thing is something we really don't do at my
> dropzone (WTS near Memphis). Everyone calls it a gear check, and we
> basically do all the checks that you'd do for an AFF student. At least that is
> what I do, and that is what people do for me. This may be because there are
> several AFF-I's running around the place, and they are generally the people that I
> ask. They are also generally the people who ask me, and they make sure that I
> do it all.
That's what I do as well. When someone asks me for a gear check I check basically everything.
>But I doubt your leg strap system includes having one or both straps twisted right
> before you board the plane. I do not know that I have ever thought about
> checking for tightness, but if they were visibly loose, I suppose that would get
> mentioned to you, also.
Again, that's fine. I can check for a twisted leg strap myself, and I do that at least twice (before getting in the plane and before exit.) If you see it and mention it, no problem. I have no problem with people telling me anything they want - but it _does_ bug me when someone pokes around my reserve "just to see something," which is something I've experienced at new DZ's before. It was in a known state when I put it on; it may not be now.
>However, I'll probably look you over on the sly, and if you start to board the
> aircraft with your chest strap undone, I'll probably just be rude and mention it.
> Please show me the same lack of courtesy.
I don't see _saying_ anything as any sort of lack of courtesy, and as I mentioned above, I've done it to other people as well. However, if I ask for a main pin check and someone opens up the riser covers of my Racer, it would bother me, because they are odd to close and I can't be sure that the checker did it correctly without taking the rig off.
-bill von

[peedu 0]

Just wanted to show you a picture of what I discovered when giving gear checks to students and to anybody who wanted it before boarding the plane.
See the attachment.
Experienced jumpers who don't ask for a gear check will get a 'visual check' from me anyway. I just look at the gear and check everything I can see: 3rings, handles, straps...
Peedu

[caseyusa 0]

ya great pic, could you explain the importance of the picture? obviously it seems wrong but i can pinpoint exactly whats incorrect.. (though i had a feeling that I prob wouldn't jump with any mess of fabric and wires... i remember them being a lot more organized..)
clue me in!

[AndyMan 7]

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could you explain the importance of the picture?

It looks like the riser is simply twisted in the large ring. This would be a simple packing mistake - failing to check the three rings while stowing the risers.
The importance of this is that he would probably not be able to cut-away a malfunction. If he had a bad main he would have to deploy his reserve into his main, hoping for the best. This would be a VERY bad situation.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[steve1 5]

I can't help but wonder if a B-12 fastener on a chest strap might be a safer way to go. We all hear story after story of people misrouting or not fastening chest straps. I even did this twice when I was starting out with today's gear. (I misrouted my chest strap and some one else caught it) In the olden days everyone used some type of b-12 or quick ejector hardware on their chest straps. I know these things can wear out or come unfastened, but you know, I never heard of this happening in the four years I jumped back in the 70's. I know there is also the possibility of not fastening this hardware, but again I never saw or heard of anyone forgetting this back then. To tell you the truth I wouldn't want to go back to this type of hardware because I've finally gotten used to fastening my chest strap correctly every time and I like the looks and feel of the modern chest strap buckle. But I just wonder if a b-12 fastener wouldn't be safer. I know they are ugly and heavier and most people don't want them.
Bill Booth had an interesting article earlier about how skydivers may not be all that concerned about safety in terms of gear. He mentioned the strength of min-rings compared to larger rings. (Most people prefer the mini-rings) He also talked about using reserves that may be too small because they look better when packed up. I just wonder if this might also apply to chest strap hardware. But what do I know I'm just a 400 jump wonder and most of my jumps were way back when. I was just wondering what others with more experience think on this subject. Steve

[billvon 2,478]

>I can't help but wonder if a B-12 fastener on a chest strap might be a safer way to
> go.
If this worries you, get a long chest strap and just never unthread it. You can then either lift the rig over your head or just step into it. Nothing to reattach, nothing to forget, and no new equipment to break or mishandle. Winsor Naugler does this.
-bill von

[skymedic 0]

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Winsor Naugler does this

who's that?
Cheers
marc
Come a little closer and i'll butter your popcorn

[billvon 2,478]

>who's that?
Quincy organizer, posts a lot on rec.skydiving.
-bill von

[peedu 0]

Quote

It looks like the riser is simply twisted in the large ring. This would be a simple packing mistake - failing to check the three rings while stowing the risers.

You are right. This is a twisted 3ring. Probably done during the riser stowing. The quy has about 45 jumps.
Peedu

[algboy 0]

My $.02 from my skydiving experience and other so-called high risk activities. First of all, I can't even conceive of how a chest strap could remain undone up until the actual jump!! What's wrong with THIS picture? Aren't jumpers supposed to be ready to jump when they board the plane? That's what I was taught (and it sure makes sense).
Is there too much DZ "attitude" and the urge to be a bad-ass skygod keeping people from properly gearing up and checking with their fellow jumpers?? Too many "Cutaway" videos playing in the packing area?
As a rock climber and sometime scuba diver, I realize that every sport has certain protocols. Here's a suggestion: in rock climbing (for example) we have certain commands
Climber A: "Belay on?"
Climber B: (after checking both climbers' harnesses, carabiners, rope and route above, says) "Belay on"
Climber A: (ready to climb) "Climbing?"
CLimber B: (after checking that his belay is ready and he/she is mentally "on", says) "Climb on!"
Is a system like this too burdensome for jumpers?
The "buddy system" is SOP in other high-risk sports.
My experiences as a "newbie" solo jumper were a bit scary, as few seemed to care about my welfare and were more involved in their own thing. I, personally, made DAMN sure that I was ready to bail out of that plane the moment it left the runway! How many jumpers--having become cavalier from hundreds of jumps--would be ready to dive out the door at two grand if the pilot screamed "GET OUT!!"??
Unfastened chest straps--now THAT should get someone suspended from a DZ.
"A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation." -- Howard Scott

[sheepy 0]

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Unfastened chest straps--now THAT should get someone suspended from a DZ.

Baaaa....somesheep needs to loosen you up

[drenaline 0]

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Baaaa....somesheep needs to loosen you up

Like sheepy did with clay, he will never forget that course and special moment... "Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[billvon 2,478]

>Climber B: (after checking both climbers' harnesses, carabiners, rope and route >above, says) "Belay on"
Actually, we use "on belay" to mean "I've got you", as opposed to "belay on" which means "get ready to belay me." But I guess any system works as long as both agree. Also, while we check each other on the ground, once up, "on belay" just means that I'm ready to belay.
>Is a system like this too burdensome for jumpers?
Not at all. Everyone can choose their own level of safety and how to implement it. I can check my entire rig including my main pin myself, and thus that's what I do before exit. (My reserve pin is not accessible for a gear check.) Other people prefer getting gear checks from someone else, and that's a good idea as well. The key is getting a system that works and sticking to it.
-bill von

[algboy 0]

>Is a system like this too burdensome for jumpers?>

<>

For YOU maybe, and maybe my opinion is just that of a low-timer, but your opinion sounds a bit elitist.
So I guess many of these "safety" posts are moot. I mean, after all, if every jumper's safety is up to him/her--what the hell? Check yourself and do your own thing. If you auger in--it's just more bad pub for the sport, right?? No one's to blame.
I still say--if safety is what people believe in (and not just lend lip service to) we need to "buddy check" as a normal course of jumping. Like a scuba diver or climber. If a jumper leaves a plane without their cheststrap fastened--for example--I say shame and guilt on that entire load!

“Keep your elbow up!"