Credentials

[sangiro 4]

If you had to credentialize a skydiver (to decide whether you should take advice from her or not) and you could ask only 7 questions in 5 minutes, what would those be?

Number of Jumps:
Jumps last year:
Years in sport:
Canopy:
Wing Loading:
License:
Ratings:

Which do you agree with, which doesn't matter, what others would you ask?

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[TomAiello 25]

Experience in the discipline they're giving advice for.

For example, Bill Dause may have 28000 skydives, but he's never flown a wingsuit.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JJohnson 0]

Number of jumps certainly counts, currency is a big plus. Ratings and such count as well. I go by what kind of person they are. Listen to them speak for a few minutes. see if they are logical, astute, perceptive....Then I look for scars and ask what their medical history is like in the sport.
It is a sad fact that Super-Ego makes many people great skydivers yet assholes as people. I don't care how good someone is at what they do. If I cannot be at ease with them, I ain't gonna learn much from them
There are plently of nice people in this sport, who have skills I can learn from. So first thing I look for is if they have a big "A" on their forehead. If their "A" is bigger than mibne, I look for someone else.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[gale 0]

Yeah, that injury thing would be good to know, as an attempt to asertain their deadication to safety. It's too bad that there isn't any way of finding this out. I'd way rather jump with someone conservative (read, not foolhardy) but there's no rating for that.

Maybe I'd also ask how many students they've coached.

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[rgoper 0]

in the past, as well as the present, the people i take advice from i know. so i'm already aware of their abilities, even though i'm not aware of their ratings, number of jumps, etc...so i actually look to different individuals for advice in the area that they, in my mind are very competant at performing. just because i see john doe have a sponsership with a major manufacturer doesn't lend him/her any more credibility with me, until i've seen what they can/cannot do for myself. call me a doubting thomas. i know one individual in particular that in my observation/opinion, with the canopy skills this person posses, can out fly any canopy pilot in existence, and yes, i've been reading all of the stats, and i'm aware of "who's who" in canopy piloting skills. but this particular person has no sponser, etc...but i would bet my hard earned money (not that it will ever be arranged) that this person could fly circles around the best of the best. so having said all of that, what do ratings and championships REALLY mean?

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Beachbum 0]

I think it depends a lot on the person's situation. As a total newbie, you don't know what all to ask, so must rely more on things like who do people around the dz seem to have the most respect for the opinions of ... who do the JM's talk to when THEY have questions ... things like that.

I think a more experienced person will do as one of the above posts mentioned ... rely more on personal knowledge of the people and their experiences. If I had to go in cold and ask only 5 things, at least one would be a fairly complex situational question that I could use to guage their thinking a bit.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[billvon 2,412]

>Yeah, that injury thing would be good to know, as an attempt to
>asertain their deadication to safety.

Actually, I might suggest the opposite - someone who has been seriously hurt is going to have a much better perspective on what's a reasonable risk and what isn't. Too many skydivers think they are immortal; jumpers who have been seriously injured know they're not.

That doesn't mean you should take the advice of someone who can't land without breaking their wrist every month or so, of course. And it doesn't mean that someone who hasn't gotten hurt yet just "doesn't get it." It is something to keep in mind, though, when discussing levels of risk with people.

[skybytch 259]

Depends on the advice I'm seeking. If I want to know about swoop landings then # jumps, canopy, wingloading and # jumps on that canopy/size would be vital. If I want to know about RW then # jumps, # RW jumps and what RW experience they have would be important - same basic things with CRW, freefly, skysurf or demos. On all of the above instructional ratings would be good to know too.
If I want to know about gear then # years in the sport, riggers ticket or not, if they work in the industry (and if so how long and what part(s) of the industry) might all apply. If I want to know about safety related issues then instructional ratings, # years in the sport, and # years instructing might be important.

[billvon 2,412]

>Number of Jumps:

A good general purpose question, but can be misleading. "Jumps in discipline" might be a better question, depending on which discipline you were discussing.

>Jumps last year:

A good question for currency; more critical if you're going to jump with them than for general advice.

>Years in sport:

Important if your question requires someone with a long term perspective on the sport; not so critical if you just want help with a specific (and new) canopy for example.

>Canopy:
>Wing Loading:

Both important if you want canopy advice; someone who only jumps 2:1 Crossfires might be the wrong person to ask about accuracy.

>License:

Meaningless, I think. A D just doesn't have much to do with skill any more.

>Ratings:

Important if the question pertains to students or PRO (or any other applicable skill associated with the rating.)

[crazy 0]

As a general rule, i don't think that closed questions are useful to credentialize an expert. I can't find 7 open questions, but i would ask things like:
- the socio professional background
- the achievements
- the contributions to the sport
- the incidents

The answers to these 4 questions should give an overall view of the experience, the skills, the currency and the ratio balls/brain.

With the 3 questions and 2 minutes left, i would try to figure out the ability to understand my needs and to communicate the advice. This is the difficult part and if i could do this in 2 minutes with 3 questions i'd be rich and famous. So, as you specially specified that the skydiver is a her, i would ask her vital stats, availability and preferences.

bb

come

[slotperfect 7]

I would remove "License" and ask "Why do you skydive." I like to know why people are in the sport. Folks are in it for lots of different reasons.

I would also remove "Jumps last year" and ask about the specific disciplines they are now and have been involved in.

As far as taking "advice," I have found that I can learn from anybody. Even brand new students may show me something new that their instructor showed them, and I might add that to the way I train students as well. It pays to stayopen-minded.

Great question!

Arrive Safely

John

[Kirils 1]

I think license is the least important. I know people who tout a "D" and are dangerous and careless jumpers. Many people don't give a damn about USPA and are not licensed. Then you have the person with 3000 jumps who never bothered going past the "B" rating. The number of jumps is important only when weighted against the diversity and complexity of the jumps. I would have more respect for someone with 200 jumps freeflying at many different dropzones year round than the weekend belly flyer with 1000 jumps at the same DZ. It's diversity that enhances skill. I know an AFF instructor with over 3000 jumps who never has had a cutaway! I have had 5 chops... shouldn't that count for somthing? (grin) Canopy size means squat. Experienced jumpers with bad knees usually go big.
What about CREW and accuracy jumpers?

OK, these are my picks:

Number of DZ's where you have jumped.

Number of successful bigways you have participated in.

What RW, Freefly. CREW or accuracy skills have you mastered?

Have you used emergency procedures?

Number of jumps in the last 2 years?

Do you have Lew Sanborn's (D1) autograph?

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[mwthomsen 0]

I believe it is hard to determines somebodies ability based on jump numbers and license. It might be more relevant to find out what kind of training or coaching they have received in their given discipline. I think the tunnel is a valuable tool in learning how fly your body, but it doesn't teach one how to do a high performance landing under canopy.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

I know an AFF instructor with over 3000 jumps who never has had a cutaway!

My hope is to be like that person - and that's the person I'd talk to for packing advice, not the person with a handful of cutaways. Now if I wanted advice on chopping...

[drenaline 0]

I'll go with:
Number of Jumps:
Jumps last year:
Wing Loading:

the others I would add are:
depending on how much jumps he says, I would ask him: How do you know everything you are saying? if he answers something like "thats what I think" I would take all his advices with a lot of grains of salt.
Another good thing to ask (I think) is What are the formations you have done and how many points? and if its always with the same team or with random people, if you can do RW with anybody and not just your teammates then you must be good.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[quade 3]

I think it would depend on what advice I was looking for.

This might sound a little silly to some folks, but I might be tempted to ask to see the person's logbook. Asking to see somebody's logbook is kind of a subtle way of dealing with a lot of those questions that have already been suggested and you might also learn a little something about the person's attention to detail.

I might also ask if the person has any other special qualifications outside of skydiving that might show a bit more breadth of knowledge. For instance, is the person a pilot or maybe a flight instructor -- that person might have a bit more knowledge about aerodynamics than your average skydiver and might have a slightly different point of view about landings.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Asking to see somebody's logbook is kind of a subtle way of dealing with a lot of those questions

Some people don't use log books after they get their 'D'. Silly I think, but I know of one person in particular that hasn't logged jumps in years, but still expects us to believe they should be a leader. Now, how do you deal with that one?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[quade 3]

Well, if the person truly is a leader then that becomes self evident. For instance, I don't really need to see the logbook of Jim Wallace.

But as I said before, it depends on what advise you're seeking.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[polarbear 1]

Generally speaking, I try to listen to everyone and weigh the usefulness of what the are saying. Some credentials do mean something...

Total number of jumps can be useful. Generally speaking, someone with 1000+ jumps can do at least something in the air pretty well. I am usually more interested in currency...how many jumps in the last 6 months? The last 1 month?

I also look for RELEVANT experience.

Experience/success competing can say a lot.

Licenses don't say much to me.

Ratings are useful in some situations...riggers ticket is nice for gear questions, instructional ratings are nice for questions on teaching or newbie-type questions, etc. Some people are teachers...they can find a way to explain something to someone in such a manner that that person will understand. Others are not teachers. Instructional ratings unfortunately don't distinguish the two.

I guess generally it is hard to really qualify someone with a few credentials. As I said in the beginning, you have to use your brain...listen to what they say and weigh its merit. Some people do things very well, others may not do it as well but can explain it better. If you are going to accept advice based on credentials, I think you have to know the person pretty well.

I would like to suggest as a constructive criticism that recently in the forums I have seen several pissing contests develop over "credentials". Some people amass knowledge and then turn around and focus on sharing it with others...they are the ones to listen to. Others focus on showing off to everyone how much they know. If someone is throwing their credentials in my face it is a turn-off.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[WmLauterbach 0]

Instead of asking him 5 questions... just ask someone else at the drop zone ONE question...

Does that guy know what the hell he's talking about?


number of jumps? maybe he has 2000 plus but took 25 years to getr there' and only a marginal skydiver with a LONG list of stories..
maybe he has 2000 minus but has been in the sport 4 years, and is a shit hot skydiver...
jumps last year? maybe he broke his leg at a swoop meet when his control line broke and only made 6 jumps all year ...
canopy/wingloading? Maybe he only jumps an Icarus Extreme because eveyone else does, but flies it like a stratocloud.

License/Ratings... I have shot video for four seperate AFFC courses and a little 'AFFI' stamp on your card dont mean as much as people think it does...


Maybe he has ALL of the cool skydiving videos, but always has an excuse why he cant go on 'the big way'... and when he does, he screws up and blames it on all the low time jumpers that manifest sold lift tickets to.

The best way to get a look at someones "credentials" is to ask someone else.


just my opinion...
I could be wrong

[Sebazz1 2]

With only 5 minutes to ask questions and being respectful to whom you are asking questions the standard:
How many jumps
What is your favorite discipline
Do you have any ratings

But of course jump numbers don't say a lot. Currency is the biggest factor in most peoples jump abilities. Also another question I ask of people often is where they jump. I have met for instance students going through AFF that have relocated from Perris or one time from Deland. These student where superbly trained. Experienced jumpers from these bigger DZ's seem to be better educated and better skydivers as well. So where you come from can have a signifigant indicator as to your abilities. This is a generalization of course. Not fact!

Seven questions would be a lot to ask someone briefly you just met. I would not want it to seem like an inquisition

• Quote

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Instead of asking him 5 questions... just ask someone else at the drop zone ONE question...

Does that guy know what the hell he's talking about?

Heh, that's the best one I've seen yet.

I usually ask advice of people who have a lot of time in the sport. Even if they haven't experienced everything first hand, they've probably at least heard about it, seen it, or know someone else who can give me a clue.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

logbook of Jim Wallace.

Amazing thing...after thousands of jumps, THE Jim Wallace actually still logs his jumps!

"The absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence"

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon