spencer upsizing

[spencer 0]

I'am thinking of upsizing to a wings container, with a 190 silhouette main, and a 176 pd reserve, I have been told this would be a good first rig after the student 270 telesis, I did ask about a 210 taking my exit weight into account, but was told the silhouette 190 would be ok. Please tell me your views.
Also could you tell me which deployment method to go for.
Thanks again for all your advise

[skybytch 259]

At your exit weight, I'd recommend a bigger reserve. Think you can put a 176 sq.ft. all F111 seven cell in someone's backyard on your next jump? For a first reserve I recommend that people go no smaller than the same size in sq.ft. as they weight (i.e. if your body weight is 190, get a reserve of around 190 sq ft; if your body weight is 210, get a reserve of around 210 sq ft).

Is the person who told you the 190 would be okay the same person who told you that you'd be fine on that 169?

[spencer 0]

yes the same person. Are you saying that because I weigh 177lbs I should have at least a 177 reserve.
I take it that different make's of canopys that are the same size fly differently. They said the 190 silhouette would be very user friendly the way it flys.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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with a 190 silhouette main,

What happened?

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That's it I'm going to buy a bigger canopy say a 210 , I don't care how big I go as long as I get down safely.
Thanks for all your help .

Why do you keep thinking smaller?

Get the 210-ish and a PD-193R, or similar.

Hook

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

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yes the same person

no offense, but you're still taking advice from that person even after putting you under a canopy you can't land well?

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[wmw999 2,166]

Some dropzones don't have a whole lot of experienced folks running around -- we keep telling students to talk to their instructors/riggers. If the main local instructor is an aggressive canopy pilot, they're still the local instructor.

Spencer, if there are other experienced folks, you might want to talk to them also. Just tell everyone that you're getting as many inputs as possible before making a decision.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[b1jercat 0]

what deployment method have you been using? I myself have boc , although i've tried rol (horseshoe wateing to happen)and ripcord(the handle cost 15$)I'll stick with the boc throw out . too bad you can't demo a few canopys. good luck blueskies

[spencer 0]

Hi Hook,
it's not me that keeps thinking smaller, it's the advice that I get. I did express my interest and concern in the 210, but kept getting told a 190 silhouette would be fine. It's down to me at the end of the day I know.
Everything it very tandem based here, so sitting down and talking things over is not easy.
If the 210 is the way to go then thats where I'll go.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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it's not me that keeps thinking smaller, it's the advice that I get. I did express my interest and concern in the 210, but kept getting told a 190 silhouette would be fine. It's down to me at the end of the day I know.
Everything it very tandem based here, so sitting down and talking things over is not easy.
If the 210 is the way to go then thats where I'll go.

Based on your landings, you got some less than great advice before. The 190 may be OK, but what is wrong with using a 210 for a while. It will help your confidence and allow you to develop your canopy piloting skills and based on that experience you will be better equipped to determine when you are ready for a smaller canopy.

All I know for sure is that the 169 was too small.

Hook

[Iflyme 0]

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If the 210 is the way to go then thats where I'll go.

Better off flying a canopy you can land safely under all conditions than flying something smaller you can land safely 99 times out of a hundred.

[gale 0]

Just a thought.

I'm a newbie too and people told me to buy a 190. I'm not ready for it, and I know it. I jump a triathalon 220 and I'm happy to do so until I feel I'm ready for something else.

Advice is good. Good advice is better. A realistic veiw of your abilities and comfort level is best.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[riddler 0]

I think that this problem is sport-wide. Have you ever tried to sell a rig with a main that's bigger than 190? It can be challenging. I think a lot of newer skydivers feel pressured to start with a 190, even though their rental rigs are often 210 or larger. It could explain why there seem to be a lot of injuries for skydivers at this level.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[mikeat10500 10]

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I think that this problem is sport-wide. Have you ever tried to sell a rig with a main that's bigger than 190? It can be challenging. I think a lot of newer skydivers feel pressured to start with a 190, even though their rental rigs are often 210 or larger. It could explain why there seem to be a lot of injuries for skydivers at this level.

This appears to be true with the reserves as well.
I have not had the opportunity to pilot and land a
small 7 cell at heavy wing loading but assume it
could be interesting.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[riddler 0]

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This appears to be true with the reserves as well. I have not had the opportunity to pilot and land a small 7 cell at heavy wing loading but assume it
could be interesting.

Also keep this in mind if you jump with a cypress. Probably the only justifiable excuse for a cypress fire is if you are unconscious. If you are unconscious, your parachute will naturally land down-wind. Unconscious + small reserve + downwind landing. Probably won't be good for you. Of course it beats unconscious and no cypress

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Hooknswoop 19]

*** If you are unconscious, your parachute will naturally land down-wind. does not "naturally turn downwind" any more than an aircraft. If that were true, it wouldn't be necessary to steer a canopy on a cross country jump, it would automatically fly downwind. It doesn't.

A canopy flys EXACTLY the same in wind, as it does in no wind.

Hook

[Kris 0]

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A canopy flys EXACTLY the same in wind, as it does in no wind.

You beat me to it...

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[riddler 0]

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If that were true, it wouldn't be necessary to steer a canopy on a cross country jump, it would automatically fly downwind. It doesn't.

Very interesting - seems like mine tends to turn downwind naturally, but maybe that's just a mis-perception. You just gave me something to test on my next couple of jumps

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[riddler 0]

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A canopy flys EXACTLY the same in wind, as it does in no wind.

I wasn't getting it when you explained it to me in person yesterday. But on the drive home, it started clicking.

The way I had to think about this was if there is *zero* wind (no uppers, no ground winds), your canopy will open in some random direction and keep flying in that direction (assuming your body is straight and your canopy is good and you don't open in a turn). There is no force to make it turn, so it flies straight.

Now, if you translate that to a mass of air moving above the ground, with yourself in that mass of air and you're already moving with it, from your point of view, it it just another still mass of air, and your canopy will open in any random direction within that mass of air and keep flying straight in that direction.

The issue is how is that mass of air (along with you) moving over the ground? If it is moving over the ground at 15 MPH in some random direction, and you are moving within that mass of air at 15 MPH in some random direction, then your speed relative to the ground can be anywhere from 0 to 30 MPH. If you are lucky and your canopy randomly opened 180 degrees to the direction of the air mass moving over the ground, you will move at 0 MPH ground speed and fall straight down. If you are unlucky and your canopy happens to open in the same direction as the wind, you will land at 30 MPH relative to the ground and it will hurt. If you happen to be at 90 degrees, your forward speed will be 15 and you will also have 15 MPH sideways movement (also called a crosswind landing).

Most of the time you will be slightly crosswind, and your landing will be unpleasant if you are unconscious. Maybe I should have posted this to the canopy control forum??
Thanks for the explanation.

[Tonto 1]

That's good advice. I've just bought a 107, and have spent 2 weekends working on my "backyard" landings. Straight aproach, slow as possible touchdowns with as little speed as I can manage.

I think I'll be telling my students that as well from now on.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kris 0]

You've nailed it perfectly.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[b1jercat 0]

my 2 cents, chances are if you are unconscious . your reserve will spiral.

[riddler 0]

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your reserve will spiral.

My guess as well. You are likely slumped over to one side in the harness, causing a slow descending spiral. That's only if you're lucky enough to have a canopy that opens straight. Most of my openings have a small turn to begin with (typically end cell closure one one side).