Don't Downsize too Quickly

[kjarv 0]

How Jarv Got That Thing On His Leg
In the interests of ensuring the story of how I broke my leg gets properly told, I figured I’d type up this little report. This will make sure that only the truth embellished as I see fit gets told, and everything else is, well, not what I want to believe is true. Besides, I can’t do much else and instead of sitting on my ass, I’ll make an attempt at telling the tale. The ‘halo’ on my leg has some fancy-shmancy medical name I can’t remember, so I will call it the thing on my leg. I’ve got to wear the thing for 3-4 months and my leg should be fully functional in 6 months. I broke the tibia and fibula down near the ankle. I will be on crutches for 3-4 months and should be working off of them for the remaining two. My trip to Hawaii has been delayed for at least 30 days, maybe 60. Most likely 30, as it turns out I can drive an automatic (even though I’m not supposed to, something about driving while impared). I can get around reasonably well…so take a moment and try to laugh at my great American tragedy:
19 Feb…it seemed like any other day in my life. I had a TON of stuff to do in order to prepare for my soon to be delayed PCS to Hawaii….all of which I decided to blow off so that I could go Skydiving. I had just purchased my own rig, the previous two weekends had been totally shitty and this was the first opportunity I had to jump this $2,600 piece of entertainment. The day was outstanding so I headed out to the dropzone, ready to jump my ass off.

When I arrived at the DZ, I checked in with the guy who taught me how to skydive for some advice. The parachute I bought was significantly smaller than the rental rig I’d been using. This chute provided 170 sq ft wonderful parachute material, whereas the rental had 280 sq ft. Now, me being a beginner and all figured, hey, that’s a big difference in numbers so I better ask an expert about it before I do something stupid. What I found out was the smaller the number, the faster you fall when you are under canopy. Now, I thought to myself “why in the hell do I want to fall faster…I thought the purpose of a parachute was to slow my dumbass down enough so as not to become a grease spot on the face of the planet?”…so I phrase the question to my instructor “Am I going to be safe with this thing?”…and he quipped, “Sure you’ll be fine,” he went into some detail to remind me how to flare (flaring is the trick you do to slow your chute down so you touch the ground ever so softly and unlike what happened to me). So, I take off, confident that I am perfectly capable of landing my new ‘chute.

So, I geared up, got on the next load and thought to myself “Kickass, skydiving is finally going to be cheap …$17/jump, no more rental gear, this is coool”. I should’ve been thinking “Skydiving is going to get real cheap, because after you bust your ass you won’t be able to do it for six months” but I’m not a very forward thinker, so that thought only crossed my mind a zillion times after this skydive.
We get up to 13,500ft AGL and I hurtle my fuzzy pink body out the airplane door and at the earth. The skydive was mostly uneventful as far as skydives go…the typical stuff happened, I shit my pants on exit, watch the airplane fall away, think to myself “this is stupid, but MAN it’s FUN, get stable, turn to look at ‘Vegas, then turn to lake mead, then look down and notice the Earth moving towards me in a not-so-friendly manner. I futz around with this in freefall for a bit, then decide to dump (dump is a term skydivers use to mean deploying your parachute…remember I already shit my pants when I left the airplane) at about 4,500ft AGL. Typically you don’t pull that high, but I figured since this was a new chute and my first pack job (yes, I’d packed this thing on my own) I better pull high so I’d have more time to panic in case something went wrong.

Fortunately, nothing really went wrong…YET….the chute opened up with a long snivel (a snivel is what a chute does when it is opening ‘softly’ it just kind of hangs up there, pretending it’s not going to open and just when you think “crap, I’m gonna have to pull my reserve” it opens up and you get to not have to wet yourself). Anyway, the chute opens up, I look at it…looks good, I grab the toggles (the thingies that let you steer) and try out the chute. I do the typical control check, make sure the chute can turn left, right, flare, and all the good stuff that I’m going to forget how to do on landing. The chute checks out, and I get to play with it for a bit. As it turns out, one of the reasons to get a smaller parachute is it performs a lot better than a larger chute…and MAN was this FUN! Turns were fast and quick, spirals were great…and I thought to myself “Dang, am I glad I bought this thing”. Once again, my lack of foresight showing…I should’ve been thinking “Ya know, anything this much fun is going to really screw me up”. Oh well.

I started getting closer to the ground and at about 1000 ft I start getting setup for landing. Right about now I notice, holy shit, I’m HAULING ASS. I’ve stopped thinking about how much fun this parachute is and start worrying about how FAST it is. I still try to setup for landing, notice the wind is still out of the northwest (wind is good, it slows you down…but as I turn into the wind, God decides to turn off the wind machine so that I can fully experience this cool new fast chute). 800 ft sprints by, I turn base….400 feet, I think holy moly, that 400 ft burned up in about a nanosecond (brain is thinking….man this is FAST…it should’ve been thinking “dude, you can’t land going this fast, get your shit together”). Well, I setup on final approach and things only start to move faster (ya know, you get closer to the things you are about to hit, in this case the PLANET, and they start to move faster). Now my brain is in full “Oh shit” mode, and I do what any reasonable human in a life threatening situation can do…PANIC (remember, I already shit myself on exit…..too bad, I really could’ve used a second). Well, at about 20-25 ft I start flaring, because I just want to try to get something to slow down. Flaring high, for those of you insane enough not to skydive is a BAD thing. What happens when you flare high, is you slow down too high, you stall your parachute, then instead of touching down lightly, you get to plummet from whatever height you stalled and smack into the ground. I remember this, so I don’t do a full flare (don’t want to stall), and instead hold a ½ flare all the way into the ground. So instead of moving at going super fast, I was going half fast. In my brain I’m thinking, “I can still pull this off, I’ll just slide on my ass across the desert, look like a fool and I’ll be fine.
Well the time it took to travel that last twenty feet was about a zillionth and ¼ of a second. Fortunately, the human brain has the amazing ability to slow down time when you are about to injure yourself in some grotesque way. It’s God’s way of making sure you don’t miss the good parts, so he equipped us all with slow motion( “oh-shit vision”). Unfortunately it seems to be only installed when you are about to screw yourself. So, as I approach the not-so-friendly earth, I place my right foot down. Notice I used the word place…I watched my foot touchdown then begin to get dragged…I’m thinking “Hey, I might be okay”….then as the dragging continued, my foot got turned from ‘straight ahead’ about 90 degrees so I’m dragging the foot sideways (I think my foot snagged an imaginary bump…probably had something to do with the fact that I put my foot down going ten thousand miles per hour). As it continued to drag, I felt pressure in my knee and had my first inclination that I was about to seriously hurt myself. As the pressure in my knee increased, and I anticipate some gut-wrenching popping sound. Your body also has the amazing ability to respond to your requests, so I was entertained with such a gut wrenching breaking sound. I was also treated to the visual of watching my leg break near the ankle in a Joe Theisman sort of manner. Shock is an amazing thing….I felt no pain at this point (That was being saved for later). At this point I put my left foot down (heck, that one seemed to still be working) and let the rest fall rest on my left leg, then my ass.

As I said before, shock is an amazing thing. I’m sitting there, leg broken, thinking to myself “Maybe I just imagined that I broke my leg. I decide that I’m going to try to stand up, but as I sit up and get another look at my leg…I decide that’s a bad idea. It seems I’ve never seen my leg bent at quite that kind of angle before (about 90 degrees in my mind) and so instead of standing I decide to try to move my foot. Needless to say, my foot no longer works, and fortunately, the attempt didn’t cause any pain. Amazingly, I’ve still not felt any pain yet. I look at the injury again, and see my skydiving buds running towards me, so I decide I better get myself together before the pain starts, because after what I saw, I’m SURE it’s gonna start hurting sometime real soon. So I take off my helmet, goggles, altimeter, and gloves as my friends arrive.
Now, a word about hurting yourself and your friends reactions. If at all possible, make sure you injure yourself away from your friends so that you can deal with it before they arrive. When they do arrive, the looks of shock on their faces, comments, shouts, general comments about how much that has to hurt is enough to throw you into a state of panic. However, be glad you have friends there, because they are a great distraction and help you through the disaster enormously. As they showed, one called an ambulance which only took 30 minutes to arrive. 30 minutes is about 3.5 years in broken-leg time. They gave me all kinds of great advice like ‘don’t move’ (no shit J) and gave me clothes to rest my head on in an attempt to make me comfortable. One of them mentioned, “We need to try to get his rig off”. This was met by a “no he shouldn’t move”….Now I’m thinking…when the ambulance arrives, they are going to cut every piece of clothing off of my body probably to include my parachute rig….pain or not, the thought of losing $2600 to some emergency technician with a pair of scissors was more painful so I told them to take the mo-fo off before the ambulance got there. Fortunately the process was relatively painless, and the rig was saved (so I can hurt myself on a later date).

Well, the ambulance arrived about 100 cursewords later, and they gave pretty much the same reaction as my friends…..people in these situations are funny….same comments “that looks like it hurts” and “don’t move”. Then, as expected they proceeded to cut my clothes. I think they enjoy that, but I didn’t give them the pleasure, cuz I really didn’t give a crap about these clothes. As a matter of fact I don’t give a crap about most of my clothes….good thing I don’t do this more often or everything I own would be cut. Then one of the guys asked me if I wanted morphine (I wonder if anyone says no to that question). So he goes away into the magic ambulance and comes back with…nothing. As it turns out, he called the doctor at the Boulder City Hospital to get permission. Well Dr. Sphincterous (which will always be his name in my mind) didn’t let them give me any morphine because then they wouldn’t be able to do a drug screening. I don’t know what kind of bullshit call that was but I guess if I was on drugs, then I must be evil and deserved to suffer.
So now the emergency guys have to load me on the ambulance without any painkillers in my body whatsoever. First they put some fancy shmancy splint on my foot (it was an inflatable jobber), and that hurt. Then they put somekind of stretcher under my sorry ass and picked me up. That hurt too. Then they carried my butt into the ambulance. My fun meter is now pegged. Now they inform me that they have to drive across the dry lakebed (the landing area). Those of you unfamiliar with dry lakebeds probably think they are smooth…well they aren’t…. every bump sends a shot of pain from my leg which now has a direct connection to my brain. I think what shock really is is kind of like the road blocks you see during construction of roads. No one is allowed to go until the pain super-highway is built.
The emergency tech decides this bumpy road would be an excellent time to try to put an IV access into my arm. I think I yelled at him. I got no needles in me until the hospital.
When I got to the Hospital, I get another healthy dose of ‘wow, that looks like it hurts’. Dr. Sphincterous looks very much like his name, someone takes blood and now the nice Mr. Morphine guy shows up. Mr. Morphine hooked me up, and let me tell ya, that’s great stuff. Interestingly, it doesn’t really take away the pain, it just lets you care a lot less about it. I get doped up, and as I am doped, people keep showing up and asking me to sign stuff. I tell you what, I don’t have clue 1 what I signed, and I’m not sure why they have you do that. Then Dr. Sphincterous realizes I am military and have to travel to Nellis’ hospital (a short 40 freakin miles away). Fortunately though, I wanted nothing to do with Sphincterous so I welcomed the trip. They hooked me up with some more morphine and sent me on my way.
I get wheeled into Nellis hospital and the gernie ride was less than pleasant….even with the morphine, it still hurts when someone hits a bump just a little too hard. I get into the emergency room for more “wow that looks painful” and get to meet the doc who is going to fix my sorry ass: Dr. Sorenson. He gets a look at the X-rays that were taken at Boulder City, and kind of laughs at their poor quality. He gives me some options, says I can get surgery, or a cast, but he strongly recommends the surgery. He warned that a cast would not work, and me being about as close to being a doctor as I am to becoming an astronaut decided to trust him. Besides, I might as well get the full exp----DAMMIT, the nurse just smacked into my leg so I had to call her some choice four letter words…..where was I…oh yeah, the full experience. He tells me it’s going to be a couple hours because I guess they had to go out for parts.
Finally I get wheeled into prep, where they give me the really good stuff that knocks you the hell out. Four hours later, I wake up in my room. Waking up from anasthesia is a scary sort of excorcist like experience. I can hear voices, and can hear them telling me to do things, but I can’t do them. It was hell. I think I was actually coherent about 0100-0130 when I woke up with an unbelievable pain in my foot. I asked for the nurse who just took her sweet time getting there (I’m sure she hurried, but pain time is much different than real time)….she then dawdled off to get me some morphine (yeah baby), meandered back and shot me up….unfortunately this didn’t work….soon it felt like my foot was on fire, I began to shout explitives (broken-leg tourets syndrome)…woke my poor roomate up, and made Clayton uncomfortable. Finally the nurse be-bopped back in, took off some stupid piece of rubber on my foot and the pain subsided and I went to sleep.
Well, that’s pretty much the tale, there was a puking episode from the anesthesia, and there are certainly some interesting stories about me getting around with this silly device attached to my leg…but I don’t feel like telling you how I shower and/or take a shit. Thanks go out to all my friends and family who have schlepped my gimp ass around, brought me food and drink, and generally kept my spirits up. See ya skydiving!

[rainman 0]

Thanks for sharing!
I've always been a firm believer that only being confronted with the possible consequences will stop people from doing something stupid.
Your story just might save someone from a similar mistake!
I hope you get lots of good drugs, get well soon, and get up there!
Blue skies,
Ramon

• Quote

[skymick 0]

G'day...sorry to hear about the accident, what a bitch eh? Anyway I was just wondering how much you weigh , or in other words whats your wing loading? Im in the same situation you were in, im a begineer looking for a rig, i weigh about 80 kg (so im guessing my exit weight will be roughly 90kg or 200 lbs) and ive been told I should look for a 170 which will give me a wing loading of almost 1.2. ive found a possible rig with a 190 but ive been told ill get bored of it, but for a guy transitioning froma raven 4 (280) it seems like a big step down for me. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Cheers
Mick

[skreamer 1]

For someone with 134 jumps, the word 'panic' seems to feature quite frequently in your story. Your profile says '190 Tri, yet in your story you say you downsized from a '280 to a your new '170 in your last jump. What were you 'loading' this canopy at?
(loading is a skydiving expression which refers to a ratio between skydiver's 'exit weight' and his main canopy size)
So, did you really have 133 jumps to your name when you hurt yourself?
Will
"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[RichM 0]

You will probably get bored of 190. But that will happen after it has first exhilirated you, then provided you with many many fun jumps. If the container was made for a 190 (the canopy it has in it now) then at a later date you can sell the 190 and put a 170 in that container. Have a good talk with your CCI about this and about your prospective new purchase.
You won't be anywhere near as bored under a 190 than you would be in a hosptial.
Rich M
Rich M

[Bruno 0]

Mick
better try a 220-210 canopy for some tens jumps.
You need develop the ability in fly at higer speed.
Bruno

[skybytch 259]

Quote

ive found a possible rig with a 190 but ive been told ill get bored of it, but for a guy transitioning froma raven 4 (280) it seems like a big step down for me. Does anyone have any suggestions?

There's no guarantee that you'll get bored with a 190... and if you do it's easy enough to sell it and buy a 170. Whatever you "lose" in the transaction will be far less than the cost of a broken bone... and flying a canopy loaded at 1.0-1.1 while you are still learning (as we all do during our first couple hundred jumps) will give you a bit of "safety cushion" as you make the little landing mistakes that we all make as we're learning to fly a canopy.
Do everything you can to put some jumps on something around 230 sq feet before you jump anything smaller than that. Going from 280 to 190 in one skydive is a big jump; doable, but imho not the ideal way to downsize.
pull & flare,
lisa
[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg]

[rking12 0]

Good advice to listen to Lisa. She gives good solid advice from experience.
Here are a few things of my own that you should consider before flying different canopies. Can you land wherever you want to in any conditions (Accuracy) on what you have today? Do you stand up every landing in any conditions on what you jump today? Have you jumped this canopy in the worst conditions you can imagine? (These vary, It can be wind, no wind, turbulence, we all have our own preferences.) When you can do all that you should feel comfortable going down a reasonable (20 or so square feet) amount. make a few jumps till you can accomplish all the same above and then move on. Get good advice from someone on your DZ. Have a good canopy pilot watch you fly and land your canopy and help you. Above all BE SAFE!

[Michele 1]

Excellent story telling. Horrible story, but great and entertaining story telling.
A note from a newbie (and an airweenie):
I have 6 friends who went through AFF while I was making my slow progress - and 4 of the 6 have broken legs. One of the other ones has stopped jumping because of a bad accident which was walked away from, but frightened them into leaving the sport (I think family pressure had something to do with it), sold gear and everything. There is only one of them who has not gotten injured, and continued to jump. Those are really sucky odds....
Most of these folks had decided that this sport was "easy", and took risks without recognizing the risks. They downsized very quickly, under peer pressure, and under personal pressure ("the good jumpers use smaller canopies...I want to be a good jumper...I guess I'll use a smaller canopy..."), without lots of instruction for transition time, and left little time for adjustments under canopy for flying style. One went from a 260 to a 190, wing loading 1:3 or so, by jump 20.
Me? I went from a 280, 260, 240 (school gear), 230, 210, back to a 230 (I was off for a while, and figured going back to the 230 was smarter than the 210)...where I will remain until I am "comfortable" under canopy again, and then back to the progression...to a 210, then a 190, and then, in about 100 jumps, a 170.
And then, we'll see.....but I miss my friends. I wish they were in the sky with me.
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[gale 0]

Thanks for the story. Sounds like you didn't get the best advice on downsizing. You've made it crystal clear to me to stay with student gear until I am DAMN COMFORTABLE!
In many things in life people consider conservativism a negative quality but in skydiving it seems that it just might be the trait that keeps you safe. Thanks for making this clear.
I hope you heal well and get back to the sport.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[wlie 0]

I agree with Bruno.
As a matter of fact, I jumped the Silhouette 210 (twice) after I had downsized to a PD 210 (8 jumps) from a SkyMaster 290 (57 jumps). This was just to get me used to the different flight characteristics between 2 canopies of the same size. Why? Because the next size down was a Sihoutette 190. For the last 7 jumps (all hop-n-pops (on the Sil. 190) due to the fantastic skies around Seattle) I had one more goal to the usual 2 of staying alive and looking cool while doing it. And that was landing within 10 meters each time.
It's really tempting to go jump my first rig this Saturday when I get it back from it's reserve repack (I recieved the rig with the reserve unpacked since the seller had just gotten it back from compling it to a service bulletin, plus the Cypres was due for it's 4 yr.). But for $10 more per jump using the DZ's demo gear to improve my canopy handling and landing accuracy, my life's worth it.
I plan on joining SOS and JOS (in other words, an old skydiver) someday. Not becoming 2 1/2 feet tall or a statistic.

[rhino 0]

There's no guarantee that you'll get bored with a 190...
I agree.. People that don't have sex before marriage don't know what they are missing.. If one doesn't jump a loaded sportscar they won't be bored with a family car
Great story! I'm glad you are o.k...
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[kjarv 0]

I weigh about 180 (200lb exit weight). I did this too myself about 2 years ago (guess I shoulda mentioned that) which is when I wrote the story.
After the accident I bought a Triathlon 190 and it has taken me safely to 134 jumps. I'm far from bored with it... my advice would be go bigger, it's safer, when you get bored, sell it and go smaller!

[kjarv 0]

Nope, when I did this (Feb '00--guess I should go back and edit the story) I only had 21 jumps :(
The 170 was a Sabre, and I promptly traded that beasty in for my Tri-190 (hey I had plenty of time to shop on the web while the leg healed up!)
I weigh about 180-185---200lb exit weight so I guess my loading on that sabre was 1.1 - 1.2. Added to that was the altitude of the DZ in Vegas, plus the no wind day--- too much for a beginner.... Easily doable now, and heck I coulda handled it at 50 jumps (looking back) but at 21 that was a DUMB maneuver
I'm happy to say I've been accident free since then (couple close calls with "yeah, I think I can make it back" and maybe a late flair or two). Now the scares are...hey I'm head down WHOOPS, now I'm not hahaha!
blue skies!
-kjarv
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground, and miss"
- Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[dayle 0]

I'm fairly new at this so take my advice with a grain of salt. I would say it depends on how many jumps you have and what your insturctors say about your canopy handling and landings.
I started jumping on a Manta student chute at 288 sq feet for my first 30 or so jumps. I'm a featherweight at 145 lbs. I spoke with my instuctors and other knowlegeable people around the DZ as to what size canopy I should be looking for. It was a toss up between a 135 and a 150. I got a really good deal on a Tomcat 135 and bought it. I transitioned by dropping to a Sabre 170 for 7 jumps and a Sabre 150 for 2 jumps before finally getting to my 135.
A word of caution. My instructors believed I was a good pilot and I was/am. Some thought I went a little small but as long as I kept my landings conservative (straight in) for awhile I would be alright. I was, no real injuries other than a slight sprained ankle when I tried to run out an untintentional downwind landing early on. (slide, it doesn't look pretty but it looks better than trying to run at 35 mph and ending up as tumbling mass of body parts and tangled lines lol)
I agree with everything said so far except for one thing. I don't feel that you have to downsize one size at a time, when you ditch the student gear. make the jump to .9 or 1.0 loading and then start one size at a time.
Just remember when you do this to pull high and get a good understanding of the canopy prior to trying to land it. and when you do land it be conservative. If necessary, ask for an instructor to use a radio to help you with the first couple of landings until you get a feel for it.
And most of all, enjoy
Dayle

[mujie96 0]

Get better soon and write some more while you're laid up, I have tears running down my face from laughing so hard.
Don't be in a huge hurry to downsize. I'm on a lightly loaded canopy and despite the fact that I'm really tempted to go smaller (so maybe I can go FORWARD in those light winds), I won't until I can safely perform a higher (I hesitate to call anything I may do high performance) performance landing. There's a list on here somewhere of things you should be capable of doing with your canopy before downsizing and I know a ton of people in the 100-300 jump range who certainly cannot accomplish most of them.

Just keep swimming...just keep swimming....

[Ron 7]

I have to say that was one of the better written "Oh Shit" stories I have yet to read...I have heard a few ones that were better, and told a few that were close, but this one wins.

And the best part is that it has a good moral.....DON'T GET KILLED LOOKING COOL/CAUSE IT WAS CHEAP.

If you live through the canopy you have now, you can go smaller later.

I think that DZ's should have stories like his on file, along with copies of medical bills and Xrays....When some guy shows up with a canopy too small...He should have to read all of them, and look at all the pictures.

There was a time when people at the DZ really cared about low timers, and would say when they saw a bad thing gonna happen.....I had several people say they would kill me if they saw me ever pull low again. (fiqure that one out?)

And back then the low timers would listen...Insted of thinking that the old guys were just there to rain on their parade.

Oh well.....

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SpeedRacer 1]

Hmmmm. Well I went from the student mantas (anywhere from 280 to 230 sf) to my first rig in only about 15-20 jumps or so. And that first rig had a PD170 in it. Never found it to be too difficult or fast for me. Of course, I weigh about 155 (probably about 170-175 w/full gear). Also, maybe it's the shape of the canopy that's important too: My PD170 is rectangular and very stable (it pretty much doesn't "swoop"). So I think the shape of the canopy is an important factor too.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Watcher 0]

Same, went from a 288 manta on jump3 to a Pro170 on jump 14. Hit a bunch of different size safires on the way down. From Jump 4 on a 269 - 189 by jump 8. I weighed 160 at the time so an exit weight of 185. Did not seem any more difficult. Stayed at the 170 for a hundred jumps. to each his own.

--

Jonathan Bartlett
D-24876
AFF-I

[dragon2 0]

Quote

I agree with everything said so far except for one thing. I don't feel that you have to downsize one size at a time, when you ditch the student gear. make the jump to .9 or 1.0 loading and then start one size at a time.

Yeah well, I'm not so heavy myself. I went from Skymaster 280/230 (didn't really notice the difference between those 2) to a Merit 190. Wow. In hindsight, a Spactre 210 would have been a better move! This was the first time a canopy was sorta actually responding to me/my body. And it had normal lines instead of the longer student ones on the Skymasters. It's also a french chute, meaning a short toggle range. Reaction:
Wow! How the f%^&* do I slow this thing DOWN!!!

My wingloading was really low...

After the Merit and a Spectre 190 (liked that one MUCH better, even tho I learned to properly land the Merit eventually) I jumped a Triathlon 175 for 4 jumps (piece of cake) then got my own Spectre 150 after 75 jumps (only loading it at 1:1). Again:
Wowww!! FAST! Eh..... Some help, please??

If I'd gone directly from the Skymasters to that Spectre 150, I can just image myself in the author of the above excellent story's shoes . No thanx.

Maybe if you're much heavier you can get away with skipping (larger) sizes a bit, but I'm not sure it'd be a good idea even then. Personally I can't imagine having to make the jump from 0.45:1 to 1:1 in one go. No way.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Ron 7]

Well...ever heard of luck?

Like pulling a reserve under a spinning Velocity before cutting away and not getting killed?

Some people get lucky....Some catch on quicker....Some get Fucked up.

I don't think that anyone that screwed up under canopy, thought they were gonna screw up and get hurt...Just like I don't think that anyone that bounced (other than suicides) woke up that day and said "Hey, today is a good day to get killed!"

And I bet that everyone that hooked in a got hurt/killed all thought that THEY were not gonna do it. THEY were different than the OTHERS.

So if allow anyone to follow whatever they want, you will have people getting fucked up and killed....

If you spoon feed them what they can handle, when they can handle it...They have a much greater chance of success...(For the sake of argument we will define "Success" as Not getting seroiusly hurt or killed).

But hey thats just my little opinion...what do I know?
Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Watcher 0]

Touche.
Under the right conditions, under supervision, with appropiate skill demonstrated, and most importantly education and currency. And as we have mentioned a bit of luck. You can be safe under canopy with a something around a 1:1.


--

Jonathan Bartlett
D-24876
AFF-I

[jerm 0]

Quote

Under the right conditions

sure.... now how about if the spot is off or the winds pick up or you open low and suddenly you have to land in the local baseball field that is surrounded by fence and suddenly you're here on this canopy that flys 2x as fast as you're used to with a completely different glide ratio that loses a lot more altitude in the tight turns you'll have to make to land safely... and i'm being REALLY nice by giving you a whole baseball field... could have been someone's backyard.

Don't fly a canopy based on being able to land it in the "right" conditions, fly one based on being able to land it in the WRONG conditions. The right conditions are completely ungauranteed

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under supervision

really, like having someone under canopy with you?

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You can be safe under canopy with a something around a 1:1.

cool!! i'll go tell that 4'11" girl who just graduated she should be on a 120!!!

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[billvon 2,400]

>Under the right conditions, under supervision, with appropiate skill
> demonstrated, and most importantly education and currency. And as
>we have mentioned a bit of luck. You can be safe under canopy with a
> something around a 1:1.

Newly graduated students can land a 2.5 to 1 canopy without serious injury given all the above (i.e. supervision, either radio or yelling, perfect conditions and a lot of luck.) However, it's generally a better idea to have them jump a canopy they can land safely under _all_ conditions.

Sure, some new grads are safe under a 1:1 loading - but that varies from student to student. Some better start at .8 to 1. Some can move really quickly to 1.2 to 1. And although every skydiver out there believes they are in that latter category, it's been my experience that most aren't ready to downsize quite as soon as they think they are.

[beemertec 0]

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And although every skydiver out there believes they are in that latter category, it's been my experience that most aren't ready to downsize quite as soon as they think they are.

I agree with you. I jumped a 280 on my AFF 1, and by jump 12 I was jumping a 200. Around jump 20 I went from the F-111 220 (which I had been landing accurately) to a ZP Aeroglide 160. When I bought the rig with this canopy, I was also able to pick up a Hornet 135, brand new to my specs super cheap. ( A fellow jumper from South Africa got it for me.)
I had a few people telling me I could probably jump my 135 after 30 or 40 jumps on the 160. I am about 170 out the door. I figure that canopy will stay in the bag for 100 plus jumps. Like my DZO said, why rush it. The 135 is safe in my closet. Although I want to jump my new canopy because it looks cool, and matches my jumpsuit, I am not willing to risk the hazrds associated with downsizing that fast. After 15 jumps on the 160, I am still nervous with the speed of that canopy when landing. In all honesty I should have waited to jump the 160. I was all over the landing area for the first 10 jumps with it, and falring high, then low. I guess angels have been watching over me. The last few jumps have been within 10m of my target, but that is as close as I have been. Bottom line, take your time downsizing. I may be a newbie to this sport, but I have already learned that much.

Blue Skies
Steve
Ok, so it's pink, but I'm secure in my manhood, and I still look cool coming in under it!