Snowflake 0 #26 January 10, 2003 QuoteJumping through a cloud is really prohibited? no but getting caught is especially for the pilot. A "Glory" huh? what a cool name. I wish I could have seen my face the first time I saw mine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #27 January 10, 2003 Quote industrial haze What he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #28 January 10, 2003 QuoteJumping through a cloud is really prohibited? Skydiving is a VFR activity, so punching clouds is verboten. Using a parachute in an emergency is another story. If the pilot says to clear out, you're okay to go through whatever is below. Having said that, I strongly recommend paying attention to where you are on climbout in case of just such an eventuality. If, for example, you know that you are headed toward a large body of water as things thickened up below (climbout at many DZs take you over big ponds and rivers), you have a better chance of navigating to somewere dry after opening high. As an aside, it is possible to wind up in a cloud in freefall by misjudging forward throw on exit. We took a four way off a Cessna once, and had great ground contact on exit. We then held the formation for some 5 thousand feet, since we risked losing each other immediately if we broke for the next point. This was probably in another country, where jumping through clouds is encouraged ("is better - when you are seeing ground, is too scary"), but I've heard of people who actually jumped through clouds in the States. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #29 January 10, 2003 It only counts if the water is streaming up your goggles. And everybody get fined for busting visual flight rules. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #30 January 10, 2003 I think some people may have taken you too seriously. We know about FAR 105. HarryI don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #31 January 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteJumping through a cloud is really prohibited? no but getting caught is especially for the pilot. I know a jumper who paid $1000 fine for bustinng a cloud. He accepted full responsibility and the pilot was not charged or fined. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eyeinthesky 0 #32 January 11, 2003 i went through static line training. my last (3rd jump total) static jump, we went up, i was to be second out. first guy got out and it was all clear. we came around for my turn and it had clouded over. the instructor looked over his shoulder at the pilot?DZ owner, who shrugged his shoulders, grinned, and said "have fun!". i didnt question it....i once stood in a cloud on top of a volcano and couldnt wait to jump into one! chute opened immediately, of course, and it was the coolest thing ever to be silently floating through the thick white mist. kinda damp feeling, couldnt see anything around/above/below me except white and couldnt hear anything but my end flaps flapping. with nothing around me to percieve falling, it felt like i was literally flying or flating in a cloud. i landed and thanked the instructor for the opportunity. he cleared his throat and said, "that wasnt a cloud, that was industrial haze from the Jim Beam distillery down the road", then nudged me jokingly. illegal or not, it was cooler than shit! doughey, i was stupid before stupid was cool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #33 January 11, 2003 OK, I'll admit that I've jumped through a few clouds in my time, and it's definitely fun. Now, can I be a bit of a spoilsport and start a discussion about why we shouldn't jump through clouds? My thoughts: The primary reason we shouldn't jump through clouds is that there may be an airplane in or below the clouds. Airplane pilots have a right to fly below the clouds as VFR traffic, they can actually fly in the clouds as IFR traffic, and we have an important legal obligation not to create a hazard. Airplanes do not always show up on radar, and controllers aren't even required to tell us if they see airplanes directly below us. Jumping through clouds puts us, and the pilots who may be under the clouds at risk of collision. While we may think it's cool to take that risk for ourselves, it isn't ever cool to inflict the risk on pilots. I wrote a feature for The Ranch web site last season about airspace, and who has a right to be where, and what our responsibilities are. take a look at it at: http://ranchskydive.com/safety/tb_article8.htm and think of the real safety implications of jumping through clouds. I know cloud jumps are fun, and perhaps there isn't much of a threat when it's just a small puffy, but we need to be very careful when those clouds obstruct our view of the airspace below. Tom Buchanan S&TA Commercial Pilot (IAMSEL,G) etc.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eyeinthesky 0 #34 January 11, 2003 we are far too far from commercial, or other, air traffic at our DV to serioulsy worry about anything but birds being below us at a 3000 ft exit. besides, we knew the area was clear....one jumper had gone out before me, when it was clear, then it clouded up by the second pass over the DV and we had just entered the cloud. i was watching everything from takeoff to open door anyway, since i am a human mental sponge, ,so i knew for myself there wasnt anything to hit. now, if we were jumping at the level i go to now, at 10k, with clouds below, id fight the temptation as not being worth the risk for sure. but in that one isolated 3000 ft instance i had....take your pants off and jump! hahaha....i think they also tell you not to jump through clouds because you may be exiting over an area where you dont intend to and not be able to make it back to the DZ. doughey, i was stupid before stupid was cool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #35 January 11, 2003 Quotewe are far too far from commercial, or other, air traffic at our DV to serioulsy worry about anything but birds being below us at a 3000 ft exit. Yeah, that's the same thing I thought until I saw a C-17 fly directly over the peas under deploying canopies at Kapowsin. One guy opened to find himself on the level with the beast at roughly 300 yards. You could tell when the C-17 crew spotted him... Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #36 January 11, 2003 Quote Quote we are far too far from commercial, or other, air traffic at our DV to serioulsy worry about anything but birds being below us at a 3000 ft exit. Yeah, that's the same thing I thought until I saw a C-17 fly directly over the peas under deploying canopies at Kapowsin. One guy opened to find himself on the level with the beast at roughly 300 yards. You could tell when the C-17 crew spotted him... Bob I once saw two F-16 have a close call with a jumper at a DZ. They were doing a hop and pop and flying back over the dropzone at about 1,500 or so. The two fighters were flying pretty tight in a slight turn towards the jumper. About that time we were like "um, this is not cool"! You could definately tell the one F-16 took evasive measures. The jumper confirmed pretty much what we were guessing on the ground that it looked to be about 100 yards separation and staring eye to eye. On a side note the jumper was trailing an American flag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyboyblue 0 #37 January 11, 2003 I'm really surprised no one has mentioned its even breaking the FAR's(part 91.155 to be exact) to be near a cloud. Sounds like there are some jumpers in training listening to this so I'll toss this info out for educational purposes Cloud clearance requirements Less than 10,000 feet MSL visibility: 3 statute miles: 500 feet below 1,000 feet above 2,000 feet horizontal At or above 10,000 feet MSL visibility: 5 statute miles 1,000 feet below 1,000 feet above 1 statute mile horizontal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #38 January 11, 2003 Quote I'm really surprised no one has mentioned its even breaking the FAR's... It can be more complicated than that. At Kapowsin we exit in high Class E (> 10000 MSL, 1000 below, 1000 above, 1 mile horizontal), fall through Class B (Clear of clouds), reenter low Class E (By comparison, the cloud briefing I got in Finland was "If you see a cloud avoid it, and if you find yourself in a cloud try to get out." Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #39 January 11, 2003 jumping through clowds is the best!!!! but even better is flying with your canopy through a smole hole between clowds, 'cause that's when you get the feeling of speed your canopy has, especially if you make a fast turn Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyboyblue 0 #40 January 11, 2003 well in a case like that, I'd choose the cloud clearance for above 10,000 MSL and you'd be covered all the way down, regardless of what airspace you pass thru. unless of course you got out somewhere in between. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #41 January 11, 2003 QuoteLess than 10,000 feet MSL visibility: 3 statute miles: 500 feet below 1,000 feet above 2,000 feet horizontal At or above 10,000 feet MSL visibility: 5 statute miles 1,000 feet below 1,000 feet above 1 statute mile horizontal I love these. Especially the '1,000 feet below' one. We're allowed to jump if we're more then 1000 above a cloud, but not allowed to fall through the cloud. These rules came straight from the VFR rulebook, and were clearly initially written for planes, not skydivers. In Canada, you can jump through as many clouds as you like as long as you're not over a urban area. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #42 January 11, 2003 Quotewell in a case like that, I'd choose the cloud clearance for above 10,000 MSL and you'd be covered all the way down, regardless of what airspace you pass thru. unless of course you got out somewhere in between. skyboyblue and AndyMan - I'll agree with that for freefall. You'd be surprised how many times the strict interpretation of the law enters in while doing CRW at Kapowsin in March. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharpfive 0 #43 January 11, 2003 QuoteMight not want to declare publicly that you busted a cloud... it is kinda prohibited by the FAR's They took a poll once and asked jumpers if they ever purposely dove through clouds. 2% said yes, 98% lied. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #44 January 11, 2003 track for the cloud!!____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyboyblue 0 #45 January 11, 2003 Ok that's it, I've seen enough. I am calling the FAA on all yer a$$'s for flying thru them there clouds. I'm gonna make sure they come here and read these here forums and take your names...muhahahaha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #46 January 11, 2003 That's really not all that funny. Its probably already happened on some level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #47 January 11, 2003 Nah, easy out. If they actually did come after you, just claim it happened in Canada, or europe, or mexico... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyboyblue 0 #48 January 11, 2003 or declare it was an emergency Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #49 January 13, 2003 Quote2% said yes, 98% lied. Surprisingly enough, I'd been jumping for over 6 years before I made a jump that could have possibly been interpreted as passing through industrial haze while in freefall. The airport on which the dz I spent my "formative" years at was located had some nasty "country club" pilots who would have loved to catch any of us busting a cloud - one of them tried to get a local jumper busted (and the dz thrown off the a/p), saying he saw him bust a cloud; lucky the jumper in question was wearing a video camera and had solid proof that it didn't happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharpfive 0 #50 January 13, 2003 Well, SOMEBODY has to keep us honest! I'm 98% sure I've never punched a cloud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
