Night jumps

[HeatherB 0]

This post isn't about whether or not night jumps should be required for your D. I'm tired of that discussion.

I'm curious about something else...

I think everyone would agree that it is safer to have an illuminated landing area during night jumps than to have one that is not lit up. However, I know a few people (a DZO included) who think it is "wussing out" to do your night jumps into a landing area that is illuminated.

There were three otter loads of night jumpers this past Saturday at Z-hills. No injuries. There were quite a few less than graceful landings but everyone walked away just fine. Z-hills lights up the landing area rather well. (The beer line is lit on fire a couple of times, a truck with its lights on is pointed at our arrow/flag, the lights from the deck are on, the hangar door is open with its lights on...)

What do you think? How well does your DZ light up the landing area for night jumps? Do you think it's wussing out if you don't do your night jumps into a dark landing area? What were your night jumps like?

blue skies,
Heather

PS: No, I haven't done my night jumps yet. I'm a wuss, but I will do them eventually...I actually have a feeling I will enjoy them.

[AggieDave 6]

Here's one side of the none-lighting of the landing area idea: The change from dark, to light screws up your depth perception. I've seen perfect landings and swoops in a non-lighted area, just moon light and seriously botched landings in lighted areas. (of course I've seen it the other way around, too).

Of the 5 night jumps I've done, it was into a non-lighted area and it was just fine, depth perception was off a bit (it's night time, duh), but not bad.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,121]

I haven't been on a night jump in a long long time, but we always used to like lights. If you landed off, the penalty was not having a lit up area.

That's really a long drawn-out way of saying that no, lighting up the area isn't wussing out. I'd have to say especially with some of the canopies now. But if he doesn't want to light up the area, that's his business, too. Keep it his, and go make night jumps where there are lights
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skygod7777 0]

at my dz, we light up the landing area.

i've done em both though, lit, and non lit landing areas. i could care less. i did some big phat hooks on them on both of em, and landed fine. if the moon light is good enough, you don't need lights.

on one of my landings, i out swooped the cars that we had out to light up the landing area, that sucked

oh ya, i have like 10 or 15 night jumps. most of em are with lit landing areas.

later

[Deuce 1]

I've done my two. Loved both freefalls, and enjoyed the landing at Byron. I was the only one to make it back to the landing area at Byron, everybody else landed out, way out. My truck and the DZO's truck were out in the landing area with the headlights on.

My second night jump was at Perris, again a great freefall. There were two trucks out in the landing areas, and smudge pots. I crashed into my shadow on that one, realizing only at touchdown that it was my shadow, and not a jumper all in black. A jumper landed out on that one, too, and he will never jump or walk again.

Davis (Skydance) does light trucks during their boogie, and I'll do that next year. I will not jump into a non-lighted (and I mean stadium or light-truck lighted) dropzone again at night. Not on purpose.

[rgoper 0]

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I will not jump into a non-lighted (and I mean stadium or light-truck lighted) dropzone again at night. Not on purpose.

that makes two of us. i don't EVER plan on jumping out of a jumpship at night time. i wish they would cut this requirement out of the D license requirement, it's all that's standing between me and the "D" i have seen some serious ass-busting landings on night jumps.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[dreamsville 0]

With proper passes and planning (even if it means saying that conditions aren't suitable for night jumps at a given time), you shouldn't have people landing out, unless the spot actually was good and someone got scared or disoriented and went in the wrong direction. When I did my last night jumps, we had more than one pass and staged deployment altitudes.
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[f1freak 0]

Unless we had an extremely bright moon, I would want the landing area lit....
I mean there is no reason to make it harder than it is...

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[LouDiamond 1]

With just about all of my military jumps being done at night(round and square canopies) I have landed on both types of DZs. Landing a square canopy during night HALO jumps requires that lights be on the DZ , either in a Y, a T, or an arrow. It used to be green lights to a red(stop) and then it just went to white bean bag lights in an arrow. Jumping into a totally dark DZ is just plain stupid for civilian skydiving. If there is 100% illumination thats one thing but on dark nights there should be lights on the DZ. I don't know what your DZO's reasoning for not having lights is but it can't be based on anything with the words "common sense" in it. Frankly , I think that's irresponsible and dangerous. What next, only wimps flare?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[SPY 0]

On some night jumps i had, there was only one car to light up the landing area and it was enough. On some others, there were 3-4 cars and it wasn't necessary. On some others, there was nothing but the moon shine and it was ok. The important point here is the moon shine; if there is no moon, probably a car or two will be a good idea, but with a full moon, you'll with almost if not more light than with a car, depending of the humidity in the air.

You can adjust your night jump to the scenery you want: on a full moon night skydive, you'll be able to see your buddies in the sky and the shadows of the environment of the DZ;on a no moon skydive, you'll need a bit more organization but you'll have a more powerful impression to be "swallow" by a black hole, even with cars lighting the landing grass.

Have fun!
Dark skies!!


Edited to had: I did about 10 night jumps and about12 night base jumps.

S-P
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[narcimund 0]

The last night jump I did was at Kapowsin on a nearly full moon night. However, being in January, the jump was right after sunset, not at midnight, so the moon was very low.

Kapowsin did not light the landing area, but did mark it with two long strands of Christmas lights which could astoundingly be seen from 13,000 feet. The two lines formed the "runway" for landing.

Everyone landed fine and I had no problem with the lighting whatsoever. On the other hand, I will not be doing any more large airplane loads with strangers at night again. I was irritated to hear (but not see) people swooping past me on final. That's a recipe for disaster.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[LouDiamond 1]

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Kapowsin did not light the landing area, but did mark it with two long strands of Christmas lights which could astoundingly be seen from 13,000 feet.

That would count as lighting the DZ

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

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That would count as lighting the DZ

Shit, if that counts, then the "dark DZ" jumps I've done (5 of them) would be counted as "lighted" since we marked the landing area with marker lights. The actual landing area wasn't illuminated in the true since of the word, though (bright lights to actually light the area).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LouDiamond 1]

Technically speaking, any light on the dz(landing area) constitutes a light DZ.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[narcimund 0]

Technically speaking, there is no photon-free area in the universe, so technically speaking, every night jump is a lighted jump, so techically speaking all of our D licenses are invalid.

And technically speaking, I'm losing interest in a lot of discussions around here because technically speaking, they're not very technically friendly and cooperative.

But technically speaking, I'm sure people are technically within their technical rights so technically speaking, I should just shut up and take it.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[LouDiamond 1]

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Technically speaking, there is no photon-free area in the universe, so technically speaking, every night jump is a lighted jump, so techically speaking all of our D licenses are invalid.


***But technically speaking, I'm sure people are technically within their technical rights so technically speaking, I should just shut up and take it.

You give yourself pretty good advise, I'd follow it if I were you

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[lippy 771]

I've done 4 night jumps. The first 2 the landing area was lit up...It didn't matter to me, I was waaaaaaaaay out, but under the full moon it wasn't a problem. My 3rd it was real dark, no moon, no landing lights, no flare. There were concussions and cat-scans though. My last one was at Eloy, 3 cars facing the landing area, and many of us landed long (we were down-winding to avoid moon shadows) I was out of the cars' range and had no issues landing.

I got nuthin

[jerm 0]

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Technically speaking, any light on the dz(landing area) constitutes a light DZ.

Perhaps, technically, but this thread is referring to a landing area that is illuminated vs one that is not (however there ARE runway/taxi lamps on the dz (the dim blue ones.. enough to find the DZ and figure out landing direction, but not enough to actually light up the ground))

gak

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[stratostar 5]

***i don't EVER plan on jumping out of a jumpship at night time. i wish they would cut this requirement out of the D license requirement, it's all that's standing between me and the "D".***

maybe we should give away an "A" license with one jump as well, people who whine and cry about this don't need to have a "D". just like if you can't stand up on all ten jumps to get a pro rating, well then you don't get the rating! however if you jump at the right dz all you need is your check book and a beer and you can get your D license & pro and never have to make any jumps!
ask uspa they will point you to those group member dzo's that take payoffs there are more then one around...

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[rgoper 0]

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however if you jump at the right dz all you need is your check book and a beer and you can get your D license & pro and never have to make any jumps!

surely you know i am already aware of this?

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ask uspa they will point you to those group member dzo's that take payoffs there are more then one around...

i'm not going to ask U.S.P.A. anything. it is my decision NOT to jump out of a jumpship at night, if i wanted a "D" without the night jump, believe me when i tell you, i could have had it a long time ago.

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people who whine and cry about this don't need to have a "D"

your certainly entitled to your opinion. by the way, define "whine" and "cry" for me. i wasn't doing either, i was simply stating what i would, and would not do. by the way, never mind the definitions.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

Technically speaking, any light on the dz(landing area) constitutes a light DZ.

Perhaps, technically, but this thread is referring to a landing area that is illuminated vs one that is not (however there ARE runway/taxi lamps on the dz (the dim blue ones.. enough to find the DZ and figure out landing direction, but not enough to actually light up the ground))


Right, I got that. My reply was to the following:

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Kapowsin did not light the landing area, but did mark it with two long strands of Christmas lights which could astoundingly be seen from 13,000 feet.



Any light placed in/on the landing area for the sole purpose of aiding the jumper in landing(surrounding light from bldgs, photons, etc not included) is considered a light dz.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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[eyeinthesky 0]

i wouldnt call anyone jumping out of a plane, especially at night, "wussing out". i'd want some lights just for safety if nothing else. but, ive got a ways to go before i gotta worry about it anyway

doug

hey, i was stupid before stupid was cool!

[crutch 0]

Here, here! All you cry babies that don't want to do a night jump will just have to be happy with your c-license. As an S&TA I am about fed up with the whining. We have a beach jump, D-license required (insurance reasons), I never heard so much whining in my life. We have standards for a reason. The requirements are tough and stringent for a reason. If you don't want to do, don't and keep your mouth shut, you have no reason to whine!

blue skies,

art

[AggieDave 6]

You know, I tend to agree with you Crutch.

What's more dangerous? A dusk jump or a night jump?

I would argue a dusk jump.

Here's why: you go from a decent amount of light in the air to low light at ground level. This light change can drastically change your depth perception. Making it all the easier to misjudge your landing. Atleast at night, there is a constant, night, you're more cautious and prepaired for the fact that you won't be able to see as well. Generally speaking, a jumper will be much more conservative with his/her landing due to this; where-as a jumper may want to nail that killer swoop for sunset load and pound in at dusk.

Make sense?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hookitt 0]

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If you don't want to do, don't and keep your mouth shut, you have no reason to whine!

Holy shit dude... I'm all for night jumps they're a blast. But honestly... what purpose do night jumps have in fulfulling any safety measures in Skydiving?

( I'm not going to search on the subject, I know it's out there.)

For the record, I do night jumps way more often than most. The ground is there and you can see it. But damn what a silly requirement for D-license.

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We have standards for a reason.The requirements are tough and stringent for a reason.

You have standards for the beach jump. What does jumping at night have to do with it? That requirement is total bullshit when it comes to the ability to handle landing on the beach.

The D license requirements are not that stringent. Perhaps your requirements to jump on the beach are stringent. Are you telling us that any one with a D licence is allowed to do the beach jump?.... During the day...when the jumps occur?

Sure this sounds hostile but it's not... I laughed when I read your post. Couldn't resist.

Cheers... Flame at will
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My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto