CanuckInUSA 0 #1 May 12, 2003 Holy shit I got slammed today. Like nothing that's ever slammed me before. There was at least a dozen jumpers who saw or heard my opening. It was nasty!!! I'm surprised I'm not more hurt than what I am. I'm pretty confident that body position wasn't an issue and despite the fact that initially I thought I might have been going too fast (I have video of myself headdown, but I did spend several seconds on my belly slowing down), I figure it was either a bad pack job (only one persone to blame, me) or my slider wasn't all the ways up. It was nasty I tell you. Numeous experienced base jumpers said my opening sounded like a base opening, only terminal!!! It was nasty!!! I never hope I experience a pre-mature opening while head down, because this was bad enough!!! he ... he ... he ... but I did get back on the horse and did another jump (and then had numerous margarittas afterwards) ... ... so I'm ok ... I think ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #2 May 12, 2003 What hurts? How was your second opening? You aren't packing a wet/ damp canopy? Otherwise, spend a little more time slowing down, break off a little higher. Ken "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 May 12, 2003 Slammer openings on a Sabre2 aren't the norm. Did you pack it any differently for that jump? Honestly, even if you're going a bit fast, your opening probably won't be a honest to god slammer unless it was packed weird. You're on the right track, though, with thinking about the slider, if it was all the way to the stops or not, though...(imho)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #4 May 12, 2003 QuoteYou're on the right track, though, with thinking about the slider, if it was all the way to the stops or not, though...(imho) How much does it need to slide down before you start getting slammed?-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymick 0 #5 May 12, 2003 I had the same thing happen to me a couple of months ago, my Sabre 150 slammed open and im almost certain is was due to packing...my back still hurts sometimes...really should see someone about that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #6 May 12, 2003 Was your slider collapsed? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #7 May 12, 2003 Quote Was your slider collapsed? Chris Yeah, that would do it.... . On that same note, I've jumped collapsible sliders and pilotchutes on my last ~10 jumps. I've been pretty paranoid about making sure everything is pulled tight and cocked...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #8 May 12, 2003 Quote Yeah, that would do it.... . On that same note, I've jumped collapsible sliders and pilotchutes on my last ~10 jumps. I've been pretty paranoid about making sure everything is pulled tight and cocked... Yah, it's when you lose that paranoia that it happens. Not 50 jumps out.....but maybe that 500th jump out. Not saying that happened here. But it can be a cause of extremely hard openings. The times I've seen it happen the person was unable to jump again that day due to nose bleeds or whiplash. I asked if they collapsed their slider and they couldn't remember if they had done it that jump or not. So no way to prove the theory or not but it keeps it in mind. Chris Schindler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 May 12, 2003 "I'm pretty confident that body position wasn't an issue and despite the fact that initially I thought I might have been going too fast (I have video of myself headdown, but I did spend several seconds on my belly slowing down), I figure it was either a bad pack job (only one persone to blame, me) or my slider wasn't all the ways up" Okay, slowing down for more than a few seconds might be a good idea. Lets take a worked example. If we call your kinetic energy in freefall at 120 mph to be 1 whump. At 150 mph your energy is about 1.6 whumps. At 180 mph its 2.3 whumps. at 200 mph its 2.9 whumps. Your Kinetic energy is proportional to your velocity squared and this energy has to be dissipated during opening shock. This is why its important to slow down to normal "terminal velocity" even on solos. I generally allow myself 1000-1500 ft to slow down which is generally more than "a few seconds". Slider down or partially collapsed will give you a brisk opening, no doubt about it. Consistently hard openings will not only wrack your body, you may eventually experience premature structural failure of your main. I don't believe body position is likely to influence opening shock all that much, apart from slowing you down prior to deployment.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 May 12, 2003 Had a rock-your-world slammer on my Sabre2 once as well. I was just learning psycho packing. I think when I rolled it I inadvertantly pushed the slider down the lines some. Not an experience I wish to repeat. Had a rigger go over the entire main and harness with me. The opening was so hard it ripped the cutaway housings on the risers clean off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dayle 0 #11 May 12, 2003 I understand how you feel, I had a slammer in March and I won't be jumping until August. I think (i'm sure) it was a packing problem, but since I paid a packer to do my main for me, I'll never know exactly what happened. Mine resulted in a minor compression fracture of the vertabra...Although from the pain i was in there was nothing minor about it at all. lol Glad to hear your still jumping. Blue skies Dayle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #12 May 12, 2003 Did you: a) Get slammed right out of the belly position? b) Get pulled upright as normal, then get slammed? If it was "a", then did you also notice any of the locking stows on your bag were broken? This is indicative of "line dump". Been there; done that; It bloody hurts! Locking stows that aren't tight enough or long enough can also do this. If it was "b", then it rules out line dump, and indicates something caused the canopy its self to inflate faster than normal. On one occasion, I had a slider get tangled with the steering lines, resulting in both steering lines getting broken, AND the slider was cut in half. This bloody hurt as well! I also had a canopy that regularly did "b" to me until I finally tamed it with an oversize slider."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #13 May 12, 2003 i had one of my worst openings a few weeks back during a BM jump it wasn't line twists or anything like that but it flung me so hard so quick to one side I literally thought I had just broke my neck (I heard it crack 3 times) i quickly realized I could still move everything and it was all good but i was terrified for a split second - you don't realize how much stuff goes through your head in a split second when you actually thought you just paralyzed yourself for a hobby. Can't wait to getup again :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #14 May 12, 2003 Add me to the list of peeps that have been "Holy fucking shit that hurt like a bitch" slammed on a sabre2. I always had rather quick openings cause my PC was too big, but the one slammer was like nothing else i ever experienced. It damn near knocked me unconscious. I have no idea what caused mine. Just thinking about it makes me hurt all over again. Since switching to a smaller PC, my openings are amazingly sweet and i hope i never have a slammer again. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 May 12, 2003 "Add me to the list of peeps that have been "Holy fucking shit that hurt like a bitch" Oooh me too, I've been slammed by 1st generation sabres, but mostly by angry butterflies (Monarchs). Once it was so bad I broke 6 lines and blew out a couple of cells at the leading edge....riser ate my timeout too. And a french tree ate my freebag!That was an expensive jump. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #16 May 12, 2003 I guess that is why I never buy a main until someone else has completely worn it out! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #17 May 12, 2003 bummer. I feel your pain. See this recent thread clicky -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #18 May 12, 2003 QuoteI guess that is why I never buy a main until someone else has completely worn it out! Just be aware that when a canopy gets out of trim it can possibly cause bad/hard openings. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #19 May 12, 2003 I've been busy putting out a fire or two at work this morning, but I've found a moment to post a little more about my slammer yesterday afternoon. So here's what I know and what I don't know: What I know - My Sabre2 normally gives me reasonably nice openings. - The slider was not collapsed. - The brakes were set and taunt before the jump. - I was on my belly for at least 3-4 seconds before deploying. - The canopy and lines appear to be ok (my rigger should verify this later this week). - Things happened so fast and so hard. - My camera footage caused the video to temporarily stop for a split second during the slammer. - The opening caused the stitching between both risers and the cutaway cable keepers to separate. - None of my dbag rubberbands were broken. What I don't know - Exactly why I got slammed. - Was the slider all the way up against the slider stops? - Did I experience a line dump? Things happened so fast and hard. But despite the fact that my neck is a tender this morning, I am happy to report that I will be ok (I've been hurt worse standing in front of the net in hockey and taking a cross-check to the back). Man I love this sport, but it can be a killer. I only wonder what would have happened if this slammer disabled me or knocked me out? You could have been reading about me in an incident report this morning. Blue Skies y'all ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #20 May 12, 2003 my guess is line dump. i'm assuming you packed it the same way you always have been. our rubber bands, tube stows are the most overlooked item on our d-bags, we only replace them when they break, at least this has been my observation.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #21 May 12, 2003 QuoteQuoteI guess that is why I never buy a main until someone else has completely worn it out! [sarcasm on]Yeah cause you never have to worry about an old worn out lineset getting out of trim. That would never cause bad openings....[sarcasm off] I was not aware that when a canopy gets out of trim it could cause hard openings.----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #22 May 12, 2003 Quotemy guess is line dump. Can anyone tell me how line dump can cause hard openings?----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #23 May 12, 2003 QuoteI was not aware that when a canopy gets out of trim it could cause hard openings. Me sorry. I thought you were just making a smartass comment. I didn't mean to be rude with my response. I'll go edit it. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 May 12, 2003 QuoteQuotemy guess is line dump. Can anyone tell me how line dump can cause hard openings? Normally the pilot begins to slow you and then the lines stretch and as the canopy opens you are slowed down as the canopy deploys in a staged succession. If you have line dump, the canopy is usually coming out of the bag before you've stretched them out. Meaning the initial jerk you usually get from a small pilot chute, will be an initial jerk that you get from a much larger, partially deployed canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #25 May 12, 2003 Quotemy guess is line dump. My guess is a stowed slider and/or not fully up against the stops. Like several other posters, I think line dump is largely a myth. I jump a freepacked (no bag), tailpocked CRW canopy with a mesh slider. I can snake the lines in the pack tray and it won't slam me, but if I leave the slider down 4 inches - BAM! Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
