other people's views on coach jumps

[aero04 0]

Here's the situation. You have a few hundred jumps. A new jumper just off AFF approaches you and asks if you will jump with him/her. The new jumper needs work on a particular skill, fall rate adjustment, docks, whatever. Would you pay for your own jump ticket, or "require" the new jumper to pay for your slot as well, since you are acting as the coach for this jump?

I ask this because when I was just off AFF, I wanted some help with sliding horizontally. I was introduced to someone to jump with but he wanted me to pay for his slot since he was acting as the coach. I was fine with it at the time, but now I feel if the "coach" agrees to jump with you, he/she should pay for their own jump ticket.

What do other folks think about this?

[Shark 0]

If you are a non-rated coach and your dz allows it, whatever the student offers should be fine. If they are asking you, they probably would offer to pay your slot as well. I'm part of the instructional staff, and if they have already completed the jumps in Cat. G, I'd do it for slot only if they need additional work. After they get their license I do coach jumps for free and pay my own slot.

[DHead 0]

If you approach other people and ask them to jump with you, then I think its fair for them to ask slots. Whereas if someone more experienced asks you if you want to jump with them, then that assumes they're gonna go anyway. If you try and make friends with lots of people you might get more jumps with people.

Im lucky that theres quite a few people with cat 8 at my uni club, and theres a few of us with FS1 (cat 10, whatever) so we have friends we can jump with.

But as the most jumps in the club is only about 150, none of us are coaches, so its just fun 4 1-way formations You should always pay for good coaches. When you get your cat 10 (or whatever it is in the states) then just start jumping with friends. Ive been told its like driving. You dont learn until you pass your test.

[skydivejersey 0]

A good coach can teach you a lot. Provided they're qualified you can get feedback and improvement from a few coached jumps that are worth paying for.

[tosca 0]

If I don´t use my own gear at the moment, other people can borrow it. If I have nothing else to do, I´ll help newbies to pack. If someone wants to learn anything (that someone else probably have taught me since I haven´t invented anything in skydiving), I´ll be glad to help and pay for the slot myself.

It´s great to get more skydivers to play with in the air, I´m just happy if I can help someone to become better so we can do more fun jumps together in the future.
And who knows, in one year maybe the person I helped have been to boogies all around the world and have things to teach me.

I enjoy practicing the skill to be able to see the real cause of problems and I think it´s a challenge to find out how to give advise that the jumper understands.
And they are always very happy to get advise

[voodew1 0]

If you ask for help you should offer something even a coke or sandwich just to be polite.
At our Dz we don't know what paid coaching jumps are, sometimes the Dzo will pay our slot for helping out a new jumper but most of the time we do it because people did it for us when we started.

Helping out can be more rewarding than money. Our head AFF-I nevers takes money from the DZ he doesn't pay for fun jumps either, but I would guess he is owed way more than he has jumped.

Always offer something as a way of saying thank you no matter how small--as for paying for the coaches slot not at our DZ.

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[jmpnkramer 0]

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At our Dz we don't know what paid coaching jumps are

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but most of the time we do it because people did it for us when we started.

These are my feelings exactly. I know that there are coaches out there who only get money through instructing but the fact of the matter is that a student pays a great deal of money to get into a novice status.

We should all take a little time to help a new person out. This way they feel welcomed and come back. Not only that but the person would be a good marketing tool for the drop zone by trying to get others they know to jump even if it is only a Tandem.

My few words. Laters.

KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[voodew1 0]

Well put on the DZ marketing

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[freefalle 0]

There are many people who do coaching as a profession, they often charge for there slot and some extra. I am not a professional coach, I am out there to have fun, if Im at the drop zone, well usually, Im there to jump. I dont care what kind of jump I make, my reasoning for jumping is far deeper for that. All that shit being said, if someone wants to jump with me, Im not going to ask them to pay for my slot and personally, if they offered and I was going to jump anyway, I have and would again tell them not to worry about it.
I think there is something lacking at a DZ or in this sport if the menatlity is, Im only going to help you if you compensate me for it.... More DZ's should have mentor programs and more skydivers should participate in those programs. Many young skydivers have left this sport because of closed minded people and that is sad

Just my .02 for what is worth peace on you

[TattooedMoFo 0]

If i'm going to coach I would like my slot paid for, in return a coach jump, video and a debrief and wouldn't charge an additional cost. Having jumped all over I've paid for full coaching rates but also only a slot, and any coaching can be invaluable. If it was a fun jump with a newbie and I wasn't jumping with anyone else I wouldn't mind paying my own slot, keeps my skill level up to scratch.

[quade 3]

Situation dependant.

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A new jumper just off AFF approaches you and asks if you will jump with him/her.

If the jumper is not yet licensed, then you should at least have a "USPA Coach" rating to jump with that person. (1)

It would, at the very least, be appropriate to compensate the USPA Coach in some way. I think picking up the slot would be the bare minimum.

If the jumper is licensed, then it becomes a matter of services rendered.

Quote

I ask this because when I was just off AFF, I wanted some help with sliding horizontally. I was introduced to someone to jump with but he wanted me to pay for his slot since he was acting as the coach. I was fine with it at the time, but now I feel if the "coach" agrees to jump with you, he/she should pay for their own jump ticket.

I dunno. Are you sure you wanted to word it like that?

Sounds to me like you'd go to a mechanic and ask him to fix your car, but if he agreed to fix it then you wouldn't pay him?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[crutch 0]

This has always been a sticky situation for me. I am more than willing to do a "coaching" dive with most anyone at no extra cost to the jumper. But, if I do take the time out, I do expect that the person when they are experienced to do the same for someone else. We do a lot of tandems and AFF jumps for cost of the jump tickets. These are for friends of family (both real and our skydiving family). A new jump pilot wanting to do AFF, my wife's sister, a good friend's husband or wife, etc. We all do the same for new students just off student status. Teach them to pack, better techniques for gear checks, spotting etc.
Taking the time without taking the money improves everything about the sport. It is not about the money, it is about enjoying time in the air with your friends. So you experienced skydivers take heart, find a newbie next time you are at the drop zone and offer to jump with them, we will all be better skydivers for it. As for all the newbies out there, don't undervalue the time the experience jumpers spend with you. Listen carefully, learn, don't argue with them and say thank you with a beer at the end of the day.

blue skies,

art

[Brains 2]

If the jump is for cat.G or something like that, yes i get paid. Only because the students pay the dz and they pay me. If it is a lowtimer asking to work on certain skills, no problem. I pay my own slot and am happy to do so. People did it for me when i was starting out and really helped me learn. If more people were willing to work with low-timers for free, i don't think we would have the "drop-out" rate that we do in this sport. Just my .02

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[nightjumps 1]

It depends. Usually, I have observed to the point of figuring if this person is going to be in the sport for awhile. If they have potential, are constantly trying to improve themselves (showing up and expressing a willingness to learn more even if the weather is marginal, learning something and trying it a multiude of times on thier own, etc.).

If they are sporadic, not a team player and I am unclear about their longevity in the sport, I'll ask them to pay my slot.

I don't rely on the "telling" me how great the sport is and pumping sunshine up my butt about their being in it for the long-term - it must be demonstrated and I must have observed it. I've seen too many hot flames burn out quick.

[jeremyneas 0]

Since I rape the DZ all day of Money and Jumps, if i'm not too beat up at the end of the day, I give out free coach jumps.

If the student gets my slot, or doesn't i don't really care. I was there once so i know what it means to jump without power in your apartment.

As an experienced instructor this is a way i give it back to the skydiving community, but newly rated coaches have to eat too, so don't be too hard on them if they do charge a buck or two, they are getting you signed off on your A card, be curtious and bounce one back to them.

J.Neas

--oh and when i refer to 'coach' i am refering to USPA rated coaches.

[skydivejersey 0]

I think this has waivered a little from the initial question. AFF instructors get paid.. why shouldn't Coaches? A low time jumper looking for some fun and basic instruction with a non coach rated individual is a totally different matter to a "formal" coaching jump IMHO.

I am doing my coach rating so I can jump with studends just off AFF but I will not be seeking payment, probably not even a lift slot but I certainly wouldn't hold it against nor think it unreasonable that a coach get their slot paid and maybe even something in their pocket.

I also don't think it is detremental to the sport provided at the end of the coaching jump the newbie concerned can say "yes I learn't something valuable and improved my knowledge or skills that I otherwise wouldn't". That is worth a ticket and maybe a small splash of cash in the coach's pocket.

[faulknerwn 37]

I never charge. Too many people helped me out when I was poor, broke and right off student status that I would never dream of not doing the same thing. My only request to the newbies is to do the same for others when they get experienced enough.

W

[Ron 7]

I coach both solo RW and 4way.
In freefall and in the tunnel.

If a jumper walks up to me and asks for a coaching jump.
I would expect my slot covered. I don't expect additional money. If they want to offer it...I'll gladly accept it, or if they want to give me a beer later thats cool also. But I can't afford to do my 4 way training, and jump with everyone also.

If a group wants me to go to the tunnel and coach them...I expect to be paid for my time. I have to drive to and from the tunnel, and put miles and gas in my car.

If a group wants me to coach them 4way for the day...then I charge. For that they get me all day...Just them. I don't do Tandems,train, fun jump or anything else. If I am standing on the DZ and someone needs help..Its free, hell I have spent half a day helping for free before. But when I wanted to leave and go see a movie I could.

Realize that I have paid A LOT of money to get where I am.
I still pay coaches. My team just flew with Joey Jones in the tunnel and we paid him for his time....Why would I not charge for my time?

If you fiqure that freefall time is about 1,000 per hr. I have spend 40,000 on jumps alone.

I try to give back as much as I can.

If I am fun jumping I'll jump with anyone. But if someone wants coaching I ask my slot be covered.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[BikerBabe 0]

We have no rated USPA coaches at my home DZ. We also do not do AFF...only Static Line.

Most of our rated SL instructors are also tandem masters, except for 2. So on a typical weekend, the two non-TM instructors are teaching the FJC and working with the students who are still on static line. If they get a chance, they will go jump with the folks who are off the dope rope and onto their freefall progression.

Many times they don't get that chance. So we've had to slightly modify the program...The S&TA and the other instructors got together and decided that I would be allowed to jump with the students who were cleared to jump solo from the top. If I land and tell one of the rated instructors that the student did, indeed, perform 90-degree turns correctly (for example), then the rated instructor will sign off that portion of the card. They trust me, and I like jumping with newbies.

I'm not a rated Coach yet. I pay my own slot. However, when I do get my rating, I will have my slot paid for.

I would say the rating makes the difference.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[sunnydee123 0]

I agree.....I am a newer jumper and was hesitant to ask anyone to jump with me when I started out because I was broke (still am) and couldn't afford "coaching" and didn't want to feel awkward. Then people started asking ME what I was doing while waiting for loads....."Solo"..... and they would offer to jump and ask if there was anything I wanted to try or practice.

Now I am more comfy just asking people if they wanted to jump and "do something" because the way I see it, for me, I can learn something on every jump....

People helping people........one day I would like to be the person offering to help someone else, because it has been done for me.

But I also agree there is a time and place for REAL COACHING and we have to appreciate and value what THEY have invested to be "one of the good kids". I'm there and am just waiting to hit the lottery

Blue ones~

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[EricTheRed 0]

I generally wouldn't ask for a slot unless I had planned another jump on that load. If I did get the slot paid I would shoot (not edit) video for review of the jump. At my DZ it's more common for the experianced jumpers to ask the newer jumpers to go with them when it's slow in order to help them to get better.

illegible usually

[Phlip 0]

It depends:
-if I spend a lot of time for the ground training
-if I'm gonna do more than one coach jump with the student
-if I use my video camera to film the student
-if I'm in a good mood
-if I like the student

If it is someone I don't know at all and he just want to do one jump he'll pay for slot plus $20.
Most of the time though, I'll just jump for nothing or just the slot, especially if the student is broke.

No rules, just depends... I am only talking about cat G, H and refreshers though... any other 2 ways I do is just for fun, even if there is training...

Flip

[gale 0]

Well, I just took the coach 1 course (limited coaching allowed once your have this rating) and let me tell you, if you're getting everything they teach us to give you, it's worth a little money.

That being said, whenever I've been coached, it's never been the way they taught us.

So I guess the answer to your question is, it really depends on the quality of coaching. Some of it's worth money plus a slot, some is worth only a slot, and some really isn't coaching at all - it's just someone jumping with you.

A coach jump should contain:

- Goal setting before the dive.
- Standards of success for the dive. (IE, if I do two clean backloops in a row, that is a success)
- Teaching of the skill(s) to be learnt
- Dirt diving
- Possibly work in the plane
- The actual dive
- Observation under canopy
- Debrief on all parts of the dive
- Goal setting for next dive

(and that's just what is right off the top of my head)

Whew! I think that's worth something!

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[tictoc 0]

The way I see it is. I spent alot of time and money getting my "coach ratting". And I consider my self good at it. If some one is wanting to utelize me as a "coach" than I would expect to be compensated. If you want to just jump I will be more than happy to cover my slot and if I can help you in the prosses I will. So if you are wanting them to use the skills that they had to pay for to get the rating then yes. If you just want to have fun or if they didn't have to pay for a rating than why should you have to pay for their time. When as we all know some one along the way gave up thier time for them?

--------------------------------------------------------
Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back.

[Fireflyer 0]

I am just off AFF and doing coaches, and they are handled by the DZ manifest until you get your A - usually just 4-5 jumps after AFF. I pay 89 ea. - 20 for my slot, 20 for the USPA coach, 25 for my rental rig and the rest for the coach and dz maybe (?). The coaches are super cool, and I would offer to scratch their back after I get my A, but I am sure many would not take it.