Reason to get a Coach Rating?

[desertsky 0]

Anyone who is a coach..... is there a reason to get a coach rating? A lot of experienced jumpers are better at coaching newbies than others, but I don't think it has anything to do with having that rating.

So, what's the point?

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lookin' for that old time, friendly, club-like dz

[AggieDave 6]

The rating gives you the ability to coach NON-A-license jumpers after they're done with the AFF-Is. According to the BSRs, if you don't have atleast that rating, then you don't jump with students. Studends are defined as anyone without an A.

You're right, there are folks out there that are MUCH better coaches then a lot of folks with the Coach rating. What *should* happen? They should get their Coach rating as well so they can pass on their skills and knowledge in accordance with the BSRs.

Also, if you want to get any other rating, you have to have the Coach rating, since the BIC is a thing of the past.

For me, a Coach Rating was a means to an end, to get my tandem rating. There are other rated coached as my DZ that are MUCH better at RW and teaching it then I am (two of them are SDU coaches as well), thus I don't do any coach jumps unless I am really needed. Although I will take students up for their H&Ps, that's something I do love to do.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 259]

I don't have a coach rating (my S/L I rating expired a "few" years ago). I am seriously considering getting it though, for a number of reasons.

Jumping with newbies is fun and can be some challenging flying. At the dz I'm at now the people who can "legally" jump with new AFF grads are usually busy doing tandems and AFF jumps so they don't have time to do coach jumps with recent grads. And imho it's not a bad thing for someone in my "profession" to have, since many of my customers are jumpers just off AFF.

[flyangel2 2]

I have my rating and I love being able to jump with the non licensed jumpers. I enjoy giving back to the sport.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[desertsky 0]

I think that is why I'm even thinking of getting it. To give back to those just starting out. Last weekend I did a couple of 4-ways with 2 A-licensed and 1 non-licensed new comers. I really enjoyed being able to pass along some of my experience and pick up on some of their jitters. It was also great to see the progress of these newer jumpers from one jump to the next and to help them get more relaxed in the air.

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lookin' for that old time, friendly, club-like dz

[Deuce 1]

As a camera flier I'm supposed to have a rating, so I got the Coach. Plus, it's nice to have people take you on their first jumps.

Getting the rating shows some commitment to the USPA process. Lots of folks get their A license and are done with ratings. Some folks are great teachers, but don't want to fuss with the USPA bureaucracy.

Some folks are great at the bureuacracy, but are crappy teachers.

The Coach rating is a commitment to the USPA process. If you think it's valid, get coaching from a rated person. If it's just hoo-ha to you, get coaching from whoever you want, but make sure you keep it safe.

[diablopilot 2]

In addition to what others have mentioned in this thread, I think it adds credibility to your teachings. I think DZ's should seriously consider requiring anyone who holds an LO (load organizer) status to have an instructional rating.

The coach rating is pretty darn easy to get, so it shouldn't be much trouble. This should apply to teachers/LO's/coaches of all disciplines.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[sunshine 2]

I love teaching newbies. To watch them improve and know i had something to do with it, makes me so happy. I've been "coaching" for about a year now without the rating, but after this weekend i'll be official.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[tombuch 0]

Quote

Anyone who is a coach..... is there a reason to get a coach rating?

The course will teach you about teaching, and that should make you a better teacher. I am a Coach Course Director and do one or two Coach courses per year. Every time I teach one I review the material and always learn something new.

Take the course and get the rating because you will learn something that will make you a better teacher.

Tom Buchanan
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[winsor 186]

Quote

In addition to what others have mentioned in this thread, I think it adds credibility to your teachings. I think DZ's should seriously consider requiring anyone who holds an LO (load organizer) status to have an instructional rating.

The coach rating is pretty darn easy to get, so it shouldn't be much trouble. This should apply to teachers/LO's/coaches of all disciplines.

I just looked at the Coach Rating material at USPA's website, and strongly disagree with everything you say.

For me to blow three days on material I've covered from all sorts of angles over the last 40 years (most of it is a repeat of Boy Scout material, with a little altitude thrown in) is asking a lot. To have me pay for the privelege is adding income to insult.

I had to get recertified as a SCUBA diver about 20 years ago, since the card in my wallet came from an organization long derunct, and I couldn't get it replaced when it was stolen. The instructor was trying to explain theory she had memorized, but didn't inherently understand. It was a massive waste of time, and it still annoys the hell out of me that I was forced to go through with it.

To have somebody put me through the same sort of "Dick and Jane go Skydiving" course would be more than I could stomach, particularly if I had to keep a straight face for three days. If you paid me enough, maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

For someone just trying to figure out what skydiving's all about, getting the rating might be a good way to come up to speed.

The fact that jumping with low-timers became the prerogative of people who have the course under their belt is just plain offensive.

I might bite the bullet and go for it one of these years, but can't bring myself to do so as of yet.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[kallend 1,635]

Are beginners getting better mentoring than they did 3 years ago?

Has anyone checked, or is this an article of faith?

Does a 2 day course prepare anyone to teach anything? If so, how come schoolteachers can't get certified in 2 days?

Why can't someone who is already a teacher place out of the teaching instruction part and just demonstrate proficiency in the BSRs and air skills?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

I am starting on my Coach rating this weekend. Its winter in Seattle and cloud filled skies make it a good time to work on it. We have a lot of newer jumpers that really do need help.. and now that it will take a lot longer for many beginning students to get their A requirements it just makes sense to get it so I can jump with them. I think it will be nothing but a positive experience to give something back to the sport.. and have someone who can keep up with some of the PROTO-ANVILS at our DZ

[ZoneRat 0]

Quote

Does a 2 day course prepare anyone to teach anything? If so, how come schoolteachers can't get certified in 2 days?

It's a start. It arms the neophite coach with some very basic tools they can use so that the coaching process is more likely to foster success. As far as 2-day schoolteacher certification... emergency certification requires no training at all if I understand it right.

Why can't someone who is already a teacher place out of the teaching instruction part and just demonstrate proficiency in the BSRs and air skills?

The course should help standardize content and method. It takes it out of "Well here's how I do a center point turn, and here's how I learned it" to "Here's a proven method for learning the most effective center point turn that the Skydiving world currently understands". I would not expect that a very capable Art prof is automatically proficient in teaching Chemistry. In the same vein, I would not expect any teacher to automatically understand how to teach Skydiving. I would expect that they would be better equipped after a two day course than anyone else. A simple case of quick re-tooling.

That said, if someone obviously had the skills and knowlege appropriate to the task, I would support a waver to that effect providing that he or she used the same basic methodology as the other coaches.

Robin

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[jmpnkramer 0]

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you will learn something that will make you a better teacher.

I do not necessarily agree. I have been in the military for 15 years and teach many different things.

I took the very first B.I.C. course and was very disappointed. It treated individuals as though they had no education background at all. Just a way for the U.S.P.A. to suck some money from people.

I will be taking the Coach course only because I did not update when the change was made. The idea is a little discerning because there are many people in the sport who teach or have taught classes for a living. Once again the U.S.P.A. is searching for ways to obtain more money.

I believe there should be a way as someone else has said to test out of the coaches course. Especially for people who are teachers and most certainly for former instructors.

I have seen students get so frustrated trying to get their "A" license. I believe that it is a good thing that it is a little more dificult but to be forced to keep paying & paying for coaches and instruction all the way to an "A" which is now 25 jumps is absurd.

We are going to lose interest in the sport. It is just too draining on the wallet. Now I know just because you have the coaches rating you do not have to charge a student but I am sure that most will out of spite.

I mean how is a student supposed to get off student status and buy gear if they are spending all of their cash on rental, their slot and a slot for the coach.

Assuming that a student does everything flawless they are going to end up spending upwards of 4-5 THOUSAND dollars. Is this really fair? some of us older jumpers need to look at this. I am a full advocate of safety. I believe in the newer "A" card. I just do not think it is fair for them to have to pay for all of the coaching.

As for the original question, the reason to get a coaches rating is because the U.S.P.A. says you have to.

I am OFF to the DZ.

SEE YA!

KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!!

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[webracer 0]

Do it for yourself. Just like graduating from college, it says something about your ability and committment.
I did my AFF rating just to prove to myself I had the stuff. Now I'm trying to figure out where that stuff went.

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[tombuch 0]

Quote

I took the very first B.I.C. course and was very disappointed. It treated individuals as though they had no education background at all. Just a way for the U.S.P.A. to suck some money from people.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the original BIC, and I hope you find something more in the Coach course.

I also teach snowboarding (AASI certified), and at this point in the year I'm reviewing my outlines and preparing for the season. The first weekend on snow will be spent in instructor clinics, learning new material and reviewing older material. Through the season I'll be required to take at least one clinic every week. Much of the material is redundant, but there is always something new. Heck, even if the material doesn't change, I do, so I find something worth learning.

The same is true of the USPA Coach Course. Every time I teach the program I find something new in the material that makes the whole weekend worthwhile, and I've been teaching skydiving for 20 years!

My suggestion is to get the ISP (it should be a free download, but isn't) and review the course material in advance. Talk with the Course Director about your experience and perhaps share some of your teaching thoughts in the class. There will no doubt be candidates with no teaching background, so offer some help, become a mentor for a couple of days.

Quote

I believe there should be a way as someone else has said to test out of the coaches course. Especially for people who are teachers and most certainly for former instructors.

I disagree. Some of the material is unique to the Coach Course, and much of it has been updated. Likewise, there is some in-air work that a teacher of another sport needs to demonstrate.

If I had my way every USPA instructor would need to take a formal teaching course or review program of some kind every year. There is a requirement for an annual "instructor seminar" to validate the the rating, but few instructors bother.

Most quality teachers understand that their skills need updating, and their technique needs review. Most good teachers seek out courses and try to stay current. I've lost track of how many courses I have taken, but honestly, each one has offered a benefit.

Don't look at the Coach Course requirement as a burden, but rather as an opportunity to review your past experiences and knowledge, and add something new to your instructional "bag of tricks."

Quote

We are going to lose interest in the sport. It is just too draining on the wallet. Now I know just because you have the coaches rating you do not have to charge a student but I am sure that most will out of spite.

Many don't, and you don't need to either. Likewise, you don't need to be a certified Coach to do those jumps...your local S&TA can review your background and approve you to handle students in the Coach phase of the USPA program.

One of the key reasons the Coach rating was established was to provide experienced skydivers with a stepping stone to the AFF and Tandem ratings. We found that jumpers with just a few hundred skydives were itching to work with students, and in the "old days" they could get a static line rating with just 100 jumps. Now, with tandem and AFF programs dominating the industry, a jumper needs 500-600 jumps to earn an instructor rating. The Coach rating was added as a formal training program to help bridge instructors into the higher level programs, while at the same time improving the training offered to our students.

Think of the Coach rating as part of a professional teaching progression I'm sure you will get something out of the course. And of course once certified you don't ever need to charge for your services.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
Coach Course Director
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[b1jercat 0]

Makes you wonder how the non uspa DZ's get along?

blues

jerry

[sunshine 2]

Quote

My suggestion is to get the ISP (it should be a free download, but isn't)

Is there a separate ISP other than the one in the SIM? I downloaded the SIM for free and assumed the ISP in it was the only ISP.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[tombuch 0]

Quote

Quote

My suggestion is to get the ISP (it should be a free download, but isn't)

Is there a separate ISP other than the one in the SIM? I downloaded the SIM for free and assumed the ISP in it was the only ISP.

My bad, sorry. I meant the IRM (Instructional rating Manual) should be a free download.

-tb

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

My bad, sorry. I meant the IRM (Instructional rating Manual) should be a free download.

-tb

Nope....not a download at all....you have to order it and pay $32 for it. Just another way for USPA to make money, unfortunately. That's one of the things that drives people away from the coach rating.

Mike

[sunshine 2]

Quote

My bad, sorry. I meant the IRM (Instructional rating Manual) should be a free download.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm currently working on getting my coach rating and was a little confused.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[SkydiverRick 0]

Does a 2 day course prepare anyone to teach anything? If so, how come schoolteachers can't get certified in 2 days?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

Makes you wonder how the non uspa DZ's get along?

blues

jerry

Seriously? Assuming US dropzones here: I don't know of a single non-USPA dropzone that does not require their instructors to be USPA rated. I also can't think of a single one that doesn't follow some form of "standard" instruction program like the ones used at USPA group member dropzones. True "outlaw" operations generally do not exist for long.

Chuck

[AggieDave 6]

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Sitting in on one class and teaching two more is not enough training.

I agree with you, but that is the point, too. That this is an intro-rating, to have you working closely with folks that know exactly WTF (usually), AFF-Is. Sort of a Sea Daddy type of system, AFF-Is help grow Coach rated jumpers then they eventually move on to other ratings.

Is that how it is done? Probably not, I know that hows its working in Aggieland. That's how I became a TM from a being a packer...worked with an AFF-I till I got my Coach rating, got my coach rating and worked with an AFF-I/TM until I got my TM and am continuing to work with him to become a better TM and eventually an AFF-I.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 1,635]

Well, I'll repeat my question with slight change to the wording.

5 years ago beginners could be mentored by very experienced skydivers with 1,000s of jumps (as I was - thanks, guys). Many of these experienced folk hadn't an instructional rating because they didn't want one.

Now we have coaches with 100 - 200 jumps mentoring the beginners after a very brief qualification course, while people like Winsor are not allowed to do it unless they fork out $$ and time.


How was it determined that this was a better method?

Are beginners actually getting better mentoring under this scheme?

Has anyone bothered to find out?

Does anyone intend to do an assessment of the new procedures?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.