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JoHawley

Would you sue the DZ?

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you are the one solely responsible for your own life. the instructor is there to do everything in their power to keep you safe. look down. question authority. if instructors could be sued that easily... i doubt too many people would take the chance and get a rating.

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An instructor makes a bad spot, you end up landing off and get seriously injured during the landing. Would you sue the DZ for negligence or do you accept that they just made a bad call and it was tough luck for you?



IMHO do you jump in the fire because someone tells you to??? Definately not!!!, it is the responsibility of each and every skydiver not to only check their equipment but to ensure their over all safety!!

just my 2 cents worth

"Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's
addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball

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I can't see a bad spot as ever really being negligence. I mean maybe if they drop a student a mile out to sea just for fun. But aside from students that know absolutely nothing about spotting, everyone else is responsible for themselves. And even the student is responsible for finding a safe place to land. So the only time I could see anyone suing for a bad spot would be a student that was purposely put out over a dangerous area, with no way of making it back. But purposely is the keyword.

edit: I still think they shouldn't be able to sue, but since there's nothing stopping them, I'd find a situation like that understandable.

Dave

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IMHO it would be pretty unfair to blame the instructor after all there is nothing to stop any skydiver taking a look out the door to check the spot and at most DZs I have jumped at (even Empuriabrava where bad spots can be “interesting” to say the least!) provided you make the decision high enough, it is not too difficult to find somewhere safe to land off.

Vicki

PS Obviously the point about checking the spot before exit might not necessarily apply to students.

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Once you're off student status and in the UK have your IC1 - you've had the spotting briefs, you've been signed off to spot for yourself. You're solely responsible for your own spotting.

That and obviously you're solely responsible for your own landing!

and you just shouldn't sue anyway

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If the instructors call is bad,and you go too,then
surely you have also made a bad call.
Does depend on what level you are at,how
responsible you can be for yourself.
e.g. AFF/STATIC/STUDENT.Not much you can
do but trust them.
But I seem to recall being told about being
responsible for my own safety from the start.
My first freefall was a bad spot in too high winds
with not too many jumps behind me.Under canopy
its up to you were you land.
No suing from me
________________________________________
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No really,if only someone had a camera!

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Yeah, what they all said. Nobody's responsible for the spot I get out but me.

BTW. I've been on an intentionally hosed spot load before as a joke, but I saw as soon as I got out that I was hosed, pulled high and still made it back. Shame on me for not looking before I got out. I was the last one out.....so please no freefall collision flames.

Blues,
Nathan
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

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NO, if you jump it's your responsability.
if you think you might land out and don't think you have capacities to land in an unknown place, you stay in the plane.
you ever thought about suing your DZ ??
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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An instructor makes a bad spot, you end up landing off and get seriously injured during the landing. Would you sue the DZ for negligence or do you accept that they just made a bad call and it was tough luck for you?



The question might better be worded 'if you suffered irreparable brain damage and were left a vegetable for the rest of your life, would your next of kin sue the dz, instructor, pilot, etc. to get the funds to look after you for the rest of your life - and, if you don't want them sued, what have you done to ensure that your next of kin follow your wishes and don't sue...."

Everyone always says they wouldn't want to sue, but when the shit hits the fan.... Sometimes its not up to us, either.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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the real issue here would be that the individual can't land their canopy....if you don't like the risk, take up needle point (though that can be dangerous too, what with the needles and getting poked in the eye and what not)....

i am interested to hear from the two people that voted 'yes they would sue' and what their reasons are....


---------------------
Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

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There's bad spots, and there's real negligence.

What if the jump plane pilot is unqualified (license suspended, wrong type of certificate...), what if the engine is poorly maintained by an unlicensed mechanic and causes a crash (happened in 1992), what if the plane runs out of fuel (because they wanted to get in one more load before sunset and thought they had enough) and crashes? What if the rental gear reserve has been pencil packed and gives you a lineover on a reserve ride?

Are these risks you willingly and knowingly took upon yourself?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I personally accept the responsibility for the things that I do. In the case of suing a dropzone I don't think that one would get much $$ anyway as a lot of dropzones don't cary insurance for that. People go after deep pockets and DZ's don't have em!


I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

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Not enough information.

In the hypothetical question, am I a student?

What kind of Serious Injuries? Am i now a parapalegic? Will the instructors decision affect my quality of life?

We can talk all we want about "individual risks", and how we understand and accept these risks, but typically students do NOT understand the risks, and especially on first jumps are entirely dependent on their instructors to make good judgements for them.

Students can not make good judgements on their own as they have no knowledge to guide their decisions.

I'm a USPA coach, and I do hope to be an instructor. If I made a decision that directly resulted in a serious injury I would personally feel guilty about my decisions.

If I feel personal responsibility, then legal responsibility can not be that far away.

That said, the situation as described I don't think I would lose very much sleep. Students are taught how to land their parachutes, and they are expected to perform certain tasks. Landing their parachute weather on or off the dropzone is entirely the students responsibility, and they have been adequately trained to do it, and are expected to perform.

Additionally, nobody ever got injured from "landing off". "Landing off" does not in-of iteself result in injuries. "Landing off" can contribute to a series of events that results in injuries though, but it is ultimately other actions - such as flying into objects, not flaring, or low turns that result in injuries. Students are always taught to avoid objects no matter where they are, they're taught to avoid low turns, and flare their landings even when landing "off". If they do these tasks as instructed they will land safely no matter if they're "off" or "on" the DZ.

If a student does get injured while landing off, the direct cause is their inability to follow directions rather then the spot. Bad spots don't kill, poor piloting does.

In the situation as described, I can't see any reason to sue.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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You expect your waiver to be legally binding on your kin? Probably varies from state to state and case to case.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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The ones that I have signed states that I am signing away my rights and my family's legal rights to sue the DZ or any of it's employers over any accident that causes me mental or physical harm, as I understand that skydiving is a dangerous sport and I fully accept the dangers envolved.

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