Tandem Master Passed Out

[pccoder 0]

Has anyone ever heard of a situation where the TM has passed out (for whatever reason) and the student has had to pull/fly canopy/land?

PcCoder.net

[yoink 321]

Are students even trained to do that???

[pccoder 0]

Not that I am aware, just wondering if this has ever occurred and what was the outcome

PcCoder.net

[flypunk 0]

Unless it was a tandem progression student, by the time the student realizes there is something wrong the cypress would fire (unless of course there is no cypress).

As far as flying the student would have to have one hell of a reach to get the toggles, there is however one incident in which the TM passed out after opening and one toggle was released and they spiraled into the ground.

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[AggieDave 6]

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As far as flying the student would have to have one hell of a reach to get the toggles,

Nevermind that it takes quite a bit of strength to pull the toggles from the student position. Its a weird angle where it takes a lot of shoulder strength to do it without help.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[D22369 0]

I Havent ever heard of a TM passing out......yet! But I know of one TM who's shoulder dislocated in freefall, he pulled the auxillary drogue release and the student had to land them "with instructions from the TM"

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Ripple 0]

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Has anyone ever heard of a situation where the TM has passed out (for whatever reason) and the student has had to pull/fly canopy/land?

I seem to remember a tandem master (I think I was told it was Mike Smith) that got the drogue lines wrapped round his neck, so rendering him unconscious. This was the students first jump and he was totally unaware that anything was wrong despite side spinning very fast. The camera guy (Ronnie O'Brien) saved him. I think this was at Sibson. Sorry to be so vague.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[andybr6 0]

I remember seeing this on the TV as well. I am afraid i dont know about any of the people involved. I think the camera flyer got some kind of medal in the honours list.

------------------------------------------------

"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[deaffreeflyer 0]

Yes that's true. He was brave to stop high speed spinning, it can knock you out very easy.

[sneaky 0]

This is a nitemare scenerio for sure,I have not heard of it happening but god forbid .. this is why we have strict intensive training for TMI and gearing up and jump procedures to adhere too ,ensuring maximun safety for tandem pair.. plus all the equipment is Cypres equipped...

I have friends who give there passengers Alti`s and brief them on a minimune deployment height just in case of no droque release ( 4000 ft AGL ) and mount the secondary DR Handle in a position for easy access by both passenger and TMI....

My biggest fear is droque entanglement... but I trust my skill and my rigger ...

[nael 0]

I did my first (tandem) jump about a month ago,a nd I wasnt taught anything about pulling or flying a canopy. If something had happened to my TM, even if I did realise, I would've had no idea what to do. I'm glad I didnt think about this before the jump!

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[nicrussell 0]

I think that even on your first jump you should receive at least some training about what you are doing. In fact I believe the student should be an ACTIVE participant, not just a lump of meat. If the student is trained to at least open the main by knowing where the ripcord is then they might be able to do something, probably not, but might.

nic

[skybrat68 0]

When I did my first tamdem at Skydive City in May of '99, TK showed me the handle and said if I haven't done anything by 5000 feet, pull this. I'm not saying in the 'sensory overload' state that my brain was in at pull time (or for that whole skydive for that matter) on my first tamdem that I would have been able to react but I was shown where the handle was and told what to do. Can't say I've ever heard of a TM passing out though - that would suck.

[buckleme 0]

I thought that it was required to every tandem student to be at least shown how to pull?
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Blue Skies!
Mary B
Sandillas Rodriguez
Muff Brother #2959 TF #77

[smiles 0]

I know of experienced skydiver passing out..hot day..she was top of crew stack of 8 and passed out under canopy after stack broke away--pilot buzzed her at 500ft. --she came to-- in time to land her canopy safe.

SMiles

[ryand96 0]

My first three jumps were tandems at Skydive Chicago in '98 and we were taught how to pull. The tandem student was supposed to pull the ripcord at 5,000, and if he didn't the tandemmaster would at 4,500 himself. Altitude awareness was stressed. We also did two practice pulls after exit. Makes you feel more like a skydiver than a passenger.

[bluskidave 0]

At the drop zone I work at first time jumpers don't wear an altimeter.So mute point on them pulling on time.AAD yes,safe landing????????????

[tkhayes 126]

If you read the FARs regarding tandems:

Sec. 105.45 Use of tandem parachute systems


(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless--


(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:


(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist--

(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and

(iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and

(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.

(v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used.

(2) The person acting as parachutist in command:


(i) Has briefed the passenger parachutist before boarding the aircraft. The briefing must include the procedures to be used in case of an emergency with the aircraft or after exiting the aircraft, while preparing to exit and exiting the aircraft, freefall, operating the parachute after freefall, landing approach, and landing.

(ii) Uses the harness position prescribed by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute equipment.

(b) No person may make a parachute jump with a tandem parachute system unless-


(1) The main parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger, the parachutist in command making the next jump with that parachute, or a person under the direct supervision of a certificated parachute rigger.

(2) The reserve parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger in accordance with Sec. 105.43(b) of this part.

(3) The tandem parachute system contains an operational automatic activation device for the reserve parachute, approved by the manufacturer of that tandem parachute system. The device must--


(i) Have been maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions, and

(ii) Be armed during each tandem parachute operation.

(4) The passenger parachutist is provided with a manual main parachute activation device and instructed on the use of that device, if required by the owner/operator.

(5) The main parachute is equipped with a single-point release system.

(6) The reserve parachute meets Technical Standard Order C23 specifications.


According to this, the new federal law requires that the passenger IS required to be taught to activate the main parachute.

This is no longer an 'exemption', tandem now falls under FAA rules and regs and violation of those regs is a violation of federal law. So tandems are to be briefed on use of a ripcord and aircraft emergencies most importantly.

In the case of an accident or incident resulting in a lawsuit, I would not ewant to be trying to explain to a jury why i did NOT give my passenger a ripcord and alitmeter when federal law appears to require that i do that.

People really need to pay attention to the things that count. Federal laws are a great way to hang yourselves (and your pilot)

just my $0.02 worth
TK

[rmsmith 1]

Good post, TK. How about an semi annual faa medical exam since the TM is a commercial pilot?

[tkhayes 126]

hmmm, the regs do have a definition of a tandem instructor, so that may preclude the 'pilot' status. Requirements fo the tandem insructor are fairly well laid out.
TK

[JohnMitchell 14]

(4) The passenger parachutist is provided with a manual main parachute activation device and instructed on the use of that device, if required by the owner/operator.

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What do they mean by "if required by the owner/operator"? Does that mean it's up to each tandem master's discretion? The rest seem clearcut, but this throws some ambiguity in there, I think. The feds like to leave in a few loopholes.

Another point, why do the regs require all this training for a tandem passenger and not for solo jumpers in the static line or AFF programs? I think Bill (Booth) and Ted (Strong) had a little too much input during rule making. Bill and Ted's Excellent Lobbying Adventure?

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[zahiv 0]

I saw a movie (I dont know when and where) that the pilot shute got around the TM neck and he passed out. The camera man was able to get it lose and under canopy the TM got aound the rest of the story I dont know. I saw it before I strated jumping so there are a few things that I might not noticed.
It was ashow about bad things that happen but they did not show and death os I belive it ended ok.

...And once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return...
blue sky
Asaf

[masher 1]

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(4) The passenger parachutist is provided with a manual main parachute activation device and instructed on the use of that device, if required by the owner/operator.


.
According to this, the new federal law requires that the passenger IS required to be taught to activate the main parachute.

This is no longer an 'exemption', tandem now falls under FAA rules and regs and violation of those regs is a violation of federal law. So tandems are to be briefed on use of a ripcord and aircraft emergencies most importantly.

No. You're wrong. The student is to briefed "if required by the owner/operator".

Make of that what you will.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies