Turbo-charged Cessna 206 vs normally aspirated 206

[clint 1]

I operate a skydiving operation out of Moab, Ut. Our elevation at the airport is 4500'. I am thinking of leasing a 206. The heat in Moab in the summer is very hot, average is 95F for June, July, August.

My question is, do I want a turbo-charged or just a regular 206.

We climb to 9000' for tandems and 10 500 for AFF students. WHat plane would it be harder on? THe people at the airport say it would be harder on the Turbocharged. They would rather fly the non TC plane.

Other skydiving operations use a TC 206 because it can climb at the same rate all the way up?

ANy info would be great! I am looking for a 206 for lease ASAP!
Need it by April 11th or so.
Thanks for your help.
Clint

[darkwing 4]

I'd recommend using whatever will get you there the fastest. Going to 15,000 msl on a hot day can seriously deplete oxygen in anyone, especially an anxious student.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[markbaur 0]

The service ceiling (altitude at which an immaculate airplane with Bob Hoover at the controls climbs at less than 100 fpm) is less than 16K MSL for a standard 206, but 27K MSL for the turbo. If you need to get to 10K AGL in Moab in the summer, you need the turbo.

The folks at the airport might not be thinking of how the airplane is used when skydiving. They might be recommending the standard model because the standard has 100 pounds more useful load, and the recommended TBO is longer.

Since you're going to be an airplane operator, I'd recommend joining the Cessna Pilots Association.

Mark

[mustard 0]

At Mile Hi we usually jump a King Air with some hefty engines and 5-foot wing extensions. It climbs to altitude at 5K field elevation really fast. We also have a turbo 206 that we take up during the week or when overloaded in the summer with tandems.

It takes us a *whole lot* longer to get to 11,500 AGL in that 206 than it takes us to get to 12,500 AGL in the King Air. I would definitely recommend turbo just to make it to 10,500 in 15-20 minutes. It's that last 1000 feet that take forever.

I can hardly wait to jump at Moab! I hear from everyone who's been there that it's spectacular scenery.

***
DJan

[diablopilot 2]

I think if you look around you'll find very few turbo charged A/C in the skydiving industry.

Reasons? I've been told that:

1) They are expensive to maintain.
2) Turbocharged engines are more suseptable to premeture wear from constant acent/decent flight's vs. cruise.
3) In the hands of a low(er) time pilot who has not been well trained in how to properly fly a turbocharged A/C they are more likely to cause expensive damage to the powerplant and turbo.


If you've got a good pilot, and a good mechanic you might have a great time with a Turbocharged A/C

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[FrogNog 1]

I thought a King Air had turboprop engines, not turbocharged piston engines. This thread's question is about conventionally-aspirated piston engine C-206 vs. turbocharged piston engine C-206.

It is my understanding that turbochargers act as altitude compensators - as the air gets thinner with altitude, the turbocharger manages to jam about as much air into the cylinders on each stroke up high as at sea level. The result would be a lot more power at the higher altitudes, which should be a way better climb.

Regarding your field elevation and air temperature, the big question is just how much more power the turbocharger can get you on the runway. (Assuming the increase in engine weight is minimal.) I have no idea the answer; I reckon someone who makes or sells the planes or the engines wrote this down somewhere.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I thought a King Air had turboprop engines, not turbocharged piston engines.

King Air has PT-6 engines of different varieties. A Queen Air is a piston aircraft, atleast the ones I've seen.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[calphoto 0]

Non-Turbocharged engines start running out of maximum manifold pressure at 5000' MSL (above sea level). MSL is the thing you should be talking about when you are talking about "engine" altitude. If you are starting at a mile high, you have already run out of maximum MP.
Turbo-chargers can help an engine maintain maximum MP above 5000' MSL because they shove more air in at the front end. Down low this can be a problem for the inexperienced pilot because you can overboost the engine. Some systems work to minimize this, but all mechanical systems are subject to failure, and failure of the system can result in popping a cylinder out of the top of the cowling. This is where that experienced pilot we have been talking about in another thread comes in.
It's sort've like turbocharging. More money in at the front end in the form of wages (for the experienced) or training (for the non-experienced) can save you oodles of bucks later on.
Unless you have one of the larger engine conversions for the 206, you HAVE to have the turbocharged engine for your operations. Otherwise that last 1000' will take as long as the first 9000 did. The key is to operate it properly starting, going up, coming down, and shutdown. If your pilot doesn't have experience in this I (and I am sure other pilots) would be happy to advise. All of the planes I manage have turbochargers and intercoolers, and get a very long TBO due to proper training and maintenance.
How much time does your pilot have, and is any of it with a turbocharged engine?

Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

[clint 1]

IT makes sense. I will have to try to get more info. It seems that it's split 50/50.
Keep the info coming!
Thanks,

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012

[bmcd308 0]

PM aeromobile. He owns a TC 195 that I believe was a normally aspirated 195 when he bought it. He may have a perspective on both.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[Samurai136 0]

Depending on the conversion cost of a Turbo-206 (I have no Idea) Soloy has a turbine conversion for the 206. Their claim is that at max-gross wt it will climb to 10,500 in 7-10 minutes. Most of their customers are in Alaska.
Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Jumpervint 0]

We run one of those here in Eastern Washington. Nice plane. I emailed the DZO and here's his response:

"Our turbine would be a pukin' weak wimp in those conditions. Look how we slow down when we are 90+ and we are at 2400 feet not 4500.
He really needs a turbocharged engine but really must mangage it carefully or there will be a lot of expense to cylinders."

So I guess the Soloy option isn't a good one in Utah.

Vint

. . . . .
"Make it hard again." Doc Ed

“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free” Nikos Kazantzakis

[billvon 2,403]

>2) Turbocharged engines are more suseptable to premeture wear
> from constant acent/decent flight's vs. cruise.

>3) In the hands of a low(er) time pilot who has not been well trained
> in how to properly fly a turbocharged A/C they are more likely to
> cause expensive damage to the powerplant and turbo.

One way around these problems is to use a turbonormalizer. Tornado Alleys makes one called the Whirlwind. One of the problems with a turbocharger is that you can get the manifold pressure significantly higher than sea level, which means that the engine produces more power than it is designed to. Turbonormalizing just pressurizes to sea level, so you get sea-level performance all the way up to its rated altitude without increasing stress on the engine. It's also a bit harder to screw up, since at worst you will be boosting to sea level pressures.

[riggerrob 558]

billvon,
Sounds like turbo-normalizing is just a turbo-charger with a really good governor that prevents a ham-fisted junior pilot from over-boosting the engine.

The dude in Washington is correct. The Allison/Rolls Royce turbo prop engine that Soloy retrofits to Cessna 206 is strictly a low-altitude engine. It was originally designed as a helicopter engine and most light helicopters cannot hover anywhere near 10,000' MSL.

There are basically two ways to increase rate of climb: larger engine or larger wing.

While a turbo-charged or turbo-normalized engine will definitely help any time you climb above 5,000' MSL, you should also seriously consider enlarging the wing.
Which wing-enlargement kit you install is determined by the wingspan of your hangar. If you are limited by a standard 40-foot hangar, then install a Sportsman STOL kit because it is the only STOL kit that increases wing area. Sportsman leading edge cuffs extend several inches forward of the windshield.
Van Pray Senior - in California City, California 2,500' MSL - swears by the Sportsman STOL kit on his Cessna 206. The fact that his DZ is next door to the Sportsman shop may be a factor... Van Pray claims that the wing kit on his 206 paid for itself in the first year. He claims that just the flap gap seals account for half the increase in rate of climb.
If you have a larger hangar, then look into any of the wingtip extension kits sold by Flint, etc. Alaska bush pilots will tell you how wing tip extensions improve ground roll, rate of climb, low speed handling, etc.

[Tonto 1]

I havn't read the whole thread.

I jump in Africa. Surface elevation is 5000ft AMSL, tempretures in summer simmilar to yours.

The normal 206 simply couldn't get to 10500 AGL before everyone would have been hypoxic.

You need the turbo.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[akjmpplt 0]

I fly both a normally aspirated and a turbo-charged 206 at our dropzone. Up to about 4 or 5K the normally aspirated airplane climbs just a bit better...above 5K the turbo makes the difference. On a formation I can let the non-turbo airplane takeoff and get to 2-3k before I launch...I catch him at about 9-10K..we climb to 12.5 for the jump.

If your pilot properly manages the engine you shouldn't have any problems operating a turbocharge airplane. If your pilot doesn't properly manage the engine you're going to have problem regardless of what you're flying. Our engines routinely go past TBO.[email]

SmugMug

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Depending on the conversion cost of a Turbo-206 (I have no Idea) Soloy has a turbine conversion for the 206

For the cost you might be better off thining about a King Air or Twotter. Or a lease.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jkwon 0]

I don't know much about plane engines but I do about car engines. A turbo engine in high temperatures will DEFINITELY not last as long as would a NA engine. The nature of a turbo is such that the hotter the exhaust from the engine the worse the performance is too. So you may be stuck with some bad situations in those hot temperatures.

Again, this is only what I know about car engines so i could be totally wrong about plane engines.

--joe

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[Unstable 8]

I was talking to an Aircraft appraiser the other day about the prices of 206s versus 182s. According to him, very often a 206 will run for significantly less than an equally aged 182 for the simple reason that design wise and performance wise, it is kind of an oddball aircraft, Insurance is usually unproportionatly higher, as well as maintanence costs. Can anyone confirm this hypothesis??

=========Shaun ==========

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

I don't know much about plane engines but I do about car engines. A turbo engine in high temperatures will DEFINITELY not last as long as would a NA engine. The nature of a turbo is such that the hotter the exhaust from the engine the worse the performance is too. So you may be stuck with some bad situations in those hot temperatures.

Again, this is only what I know about car engines so i could be totally wrong about plane engines.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are correct.

Several companies sell after-market intercoolers for turbo-charged Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines. Airplane owners say that intercoolers substantially decrease engine temperatures (close to standard temperatures in non-blown engines), while improving performance and helping their engines reach full TBO.

• Quote

[billvon 2,403]

>Several companies sell after-market intercoolers for turbo-charged
>Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines.

I didn't know anyone did turbocharger installations without intercoolers! Seems like a bad idea.