200 USA/500 uk jumps to fly birdman ????

[MrPeabody 0]

Hey sky people, Does anyone know why you can fly a birdman suit in the US with 200 jumps and in the UK it's 500 ? Is it because we have more dangerous air in the uk ? or are we just over cautious compared to US. Ta.

[quade 3]

The short answer is, different countries, different customs.

That said, USPA SIM Section 6-9 recommends a 500 jump minimum with the last 200 freefalls being within the last 18 months. It also recommends training from an experienced wingsuit flyer.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,442]

>Does anyone know why you can fly a birdman suit in the US with
>200 jumps and in the UK it's 500 ?

Not always true. If you are not jumping with a BM-I, it's recommended that you have 500 jumps in the US. Also, at large events like Rantoul, the number is higher (300-500.)

[MrPeabody 0]

Thanks for that guys, looks like I will have to sell my house (or my body) to get the jumps in

[tattoojeff 0]

so what does "recomended" mean. i take it as exactly that, its recomended but theres really nothing the uspa can do to stop you? or is there?

[Kennedy 0]

If you can get someone to sell you a used birdman suit and find someone to take you to altitude, you can jump tomorrow, even if you just got your A, hell even if you don't have your A, and USPA can't do anything about it.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

Jeff --

USPA Group Member Drop Zone pledge to enforce the USPA SIM Section 2 Basic Safety Requirements. Some of the BSRs are simply requirements to follow FAR 105 (the actual law of the FAA) while others are basic safety concepts that apply to all USPA members at USPA Group Member Drop Zones. The remainder of the SIM are recommendations. There is no requirement to follow what the USPA recommends -- but it would be wise to do so as most of the recommendations came about as the result of lessons learned as a result of fatlities.

At Non-USPA Group Member Drop Zones, you can do anything that would be allowed under FAR Part 105. It would stil be -wise- to follow the USPA SIM however.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, what he said.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[USPA 0]

You forgot the 3th option, the rules in the US are too radical.

In The Netherlands it's according factory recomandations. Last time i checked, 500 without birdman instructor, 200 with.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[fudd 0]

In Norway it's 500.
500 isn't that much...unless you're planning for a short skydiving carreer.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[CornishChris 5]

Australia - 200

edited to add Also in Australia:

C license - 100
Camera - 100
No water jump requirement for B

Things vary from place to place.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[LouDiamond 1]

Birdman Inc recommends 500 jumps regardless of location. However, if the individual has at a minimum of 200 curerent jumps(within the last 18 months), they can go up with an instructor after having received one on one ground instruction and in flight training. I have trained many Brits who came to the US solely to get trained on Birdman because of the 500 jump rule in their country. I believe their(UK) guidelines allows for the exception and continued use in the UK if they received the training in the US and from a certified Birdman instructor.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[tattoojeff 0]

thanks for the info. that all makes good sense. i love the fact were a self governing sport. the scary thing is jumpers with very low jump numbers buying sub hundred x-braced canopys and jumping them. im happy to see the uspa is adressing this problem with more than just "recomendations". however its up to our community to be very careful about making new rules and regulations so we dont find ourselves taking the freedom we all love out of this wonderful life we have. its a fine balancing act keeping the faa and other "badges" out of our sport.
maybe i should have made another thread sorry if im hijaking. ill shut up now.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

In Norway it's 500.

Ordinarily, I'd say more experience prior to trying something new is a good thing. But in this case...

I know several Norwegians who made their first wingsuit flights off cliffs, because they had insufficient skydives to legally practice out of airplanes first.

When that's the result, maybe the regulations are a bit over the top.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[MrPeabody 0]

Thanks, maybe see you next year for some training.

skinnybloke

[gremlin 0]

The uk only has a recommendation not a fixed rule. It is that you have to have 250 jumps in the last 18 months

I did my first one at the DZ.com boogie at christmas and it was superb but I can understand the reasons for a high degree of currency as all of your drills are different.

I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine....

[fudd 0]

Quote

I know several Norwegians who made their first wingsuit flights off cliffs, because they had insufficient skydives to legally practice out of airplanes first.

I have limited experience in skydiving, none with wingsuits and no base jumps.
However I think it's stupid to try your first wingsuit jump off a cliff. With a safety attitude like that I'd like them not to die skydivng.

There is no reason to be in any hurry. Doing stupid things and die ruins the sport for everybody else.
I plan to continue skydiving for more than a coupple of years, and I will pass 500 jumps one day in the not too far future.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[TrickyDicky 0]

No fixed rules in the UK, just guidlines.

My friend has about 300 jumps, (250 in last 12 month or so) and he just started flying a wingsuit, without 1on1 instruction, just advice from people that had plenty of flights on them.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[shunkka 0]

my question is: if i have under 500 and i jump a BM in US... after it i can jump one in UK? (without the #500 jumps required?)

-------------------------
"jump, have fun, pull"

[TrickyDicky 0]

There is no UK rules on jumping BM suit, only guidlines. Its down to the CCI whether he lets you.

There is no Rule preventing you from jumping one as soon as you get Cat 8.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[kallend 1,653]

Quote

Quote

In Norway it's 500.

Ordinarily, I'd say more experience prior to trying something new is a good thing. But in this case...

I know several Norwegians who made their first wingsuit flights off cliffs, because they had insufficient skydives to legally practice out of airplanes first.

When that's the result, maybe the regulations are a bit over the top.

That's a good example of "The Law of Unintended Consequences", a law that is invoked about as often as Murphy's Law.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...I think it's stupid to try your first wingsuit jump off a cliff. With a safety attitude like that I'd like them not to die skydivng.

I generally agree with you. But you have to realize that these guys are very experienced BASE jumpers, usually with far more BASE jumps than skydives.

I'd say it'd be better if their terminal BASE jumps were counted in the "number of jumps" to allow them to practice wingsuits out of planes. In general, that would put them up over the required 500.

I dunno. It doesn't effect me personally, but I do think it's silly to see people who are solid jumpers, and would prefer to practice in a safer environment, but are forced to learn in a dangerous way by the regulations.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[flylikeahandbag 0]

http://www.bpa.org.uk/forms/docs/Form%20235%20-%20Guidelines%20for%20Jumping%20Wing-Suits.rtf

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http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[Ron 7]

Quote

Birdman Inc recommends 500 jumps regardless of location. However, if the individual has at a minimum of 200 curerent jumps(within the last 18 months), they can go up with an instructor after having received one on one ground instruction and in flight training.

Now I don't understand this...What in the hell good is an instructor going to do during deployment or a Mal with the student.

The only good things that jumping with an I will dofor you is you will not fly to far from the DZ to be able to make it back and if they deploy you had better. You will also get performance tips from him after the jump.

But what can the instructor do *in freefall* that makes it ok to take someone with 300 less jumps?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,442]

>...What in the hell good is an instructor going to do during
>deployment or a Mal with the student.

Nothing. However, they can watch the practice touches and give hand signals to correct body position during those practice touches; that can help prevent the mals to begin with. The primary benefit of going through the course is definitely the ground instruction, but there is some benefit to actually jumping with a BM-I as well.

>The only good things that jumping with an I will dofor you is you will
> not fly to far from the DZ to be able to make it back and if they
> deploy you had better. You will also get performance tips from him
> after the jump.

And occasionally during the jump. I will sometimes give the "do another practice touch" signal if the first ones aren't very good, and will give body correction signals (basically exaggerated movements of my own body) on later jumps. Haven't had to do any body corrections on anyone's first jump yet, though.