KATO33 0 #1 April 19, 2004 I was just wondering if anyone knows or could speculate if a Wind tunnel could survive on skydivers alone (read without tourist). Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #2 April 19, 2004 Looking at the impact of tunel training on the modern freeflying and FS I'd say it will not only survive but expand and become more and more popular. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #3 April 19, 2004 I'd say we'll have a good idea of how busy it can be only with jumpers (or with a very small amount of wuffos) with Eloy's tunnel (and Perris's too, but I think Eloy is even further then any big mass of people)Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #4 April 19, 2004 QuoteI was just wondering if anyone knows or could speculate if a Wind tunnel could survive on skydivers alone (read without tourist). I've talked to people who work at SkyVenture Orlando and they've often said the majority of their time is sold to skydivers...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #5 April 19, 2004 its sold out months in advance (atleast when i wanted to go). i had a hell of a time getting just 10 minutes 2 days before i wanted to go in. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #6 April 20, 2004 Have a look at the Skyventure UK website and the investors prospectus to give you some idea about how important whuffos are to a new tunnel, but bear in mind this example is from the UK where the skydiving population is relatively small (under 5000 regular jumpers). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #7 April 20, 2004 Yes, and no. The Orlando Tunnel could survive quite well without whuffo rides. However, as other tunnels open the demand by skydivers will reduce. Tunnels will reach a point when the market becomes saturated and the demand from skydivers will drop. Right now you have teams and camps using the Perris tunnel that would have had to use the Orlando tunnel. When the projected tunnels open in NJ, NC and AZ...Expect the demand from skydivers to increase a little due to locals using the local tunnel as opposed to having to fly to Orlando, but not so much that all of these tunnels could survive without the whuffo rides. Once the market becomes saturated expect a few things... The tunnels will have to focus on one or more of three areas. 1. Whuffo rides. The Orlando Tunnel will do fine since if can always recover the lack of skydiver hours with whuffo rides. an AZ tunnel, and maybe the Perris tunnel will not do this as well. 2. Military contracts. The NC tunnel (If built) should do well since it was originaly planned for military contracts and over flow from the Ft.Bragg Mantos tunnel. 3. Camps and training programs. Such as Airspeed, NSL, freefly camps, AFF programs, ect. This will become a key to the ability of a tunnel to keep skydiver hours. We should expect the cost per hour to stay about the same. The tunnels will not really try to compete with each other, instead they will try to draw from their market area, and try to have the best coaching available."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #8 April 20, 2004 Though I think you make some good points, I think that there would be an increase in demand by the skydiving community. There are too many of us who do not go to a tunnel because the cost is significant with travel being part of the price. I would do much more tunnel time if I had one within 4 hours drive. I could drive out early. Spend an hour in the tunnel, drive home. all in one day. To go to Orlando, I have to drive for 16 hours, get a hotel, spend and hour in the tunnel the next day. Goto a hotel, then drive home the next day for 16 hours. If every state had a tunnel that would be market saturation and the tunnel would need tourists to keep it afloat. But to have enough in the market that you could go there, fly, and go home within a day? I think that then they could survive without tourists. Of course that assumes that people would be willing to drive hat far for 15 minutes of tunnel time or could afford to go for an hour at a time. and of course I am not an economics or business major, so this is truly just an opinion, therefore the ole saying "opinions are like a . . ." applies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #9 April 20, 2004 QuoteThough I think you make some good points, I think that there would be an increase in demand by the skydiving community. There are too many of us who do not go to a tunnel because the cost is significant with travel being part of the price. I would do much more tunnel time if I had one within 4 hours drive. I could drive out early. Spend an hour in the tunnel, drive home. all in one day. Yes this is the way I was thinking as well. I think a tunnel would do well here in the midwest especially in the winter when the weather turns to S***. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #10 April 20, 2004 QuoteYes this is the way I was thinking as well. I think a tunnel would do well here in the midwest especially in the winter when the weather turns to S***. The current design of tunnel sucks in bad WX as well as skydiving does. Rain gets sucked in and it hurts... Cold is still cold. Hot is not so bad when you are in the air, but in the staging area it can really suck."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #11 April 20, 2004 QuoteThe current design of tunnel sucks in bad WX as well as skydiving does. I understand there are ongoing discussions for an recirculating indoor Tunnel north of Chicago. Suposedly its for real. Time will tell. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #12 April 20, 2004 QuoteI understand there are ongoing discussions for an recirculating indoor Tunnel north of Chicago. Suposedly its for real. Time will tell. As I understand tunnel technology the venturi effect used significantly cools the air as it enters the tunnel. A tunnel in Illinois will either be seasonal or will have to have apparatus to recirculate the air in winter. Either can be expected to significantly increase costs (and prices). Time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #13 April 20, 2004 I wonder, if the prices will go down as they build more and more tunnels around the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #14 April 20, 2004 That would seriously depend on how much of the cost covers initial investment and overhead. At the price of them things, I bet their is not much room for price wars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #15 April 20, 2004 Quote Hot is not so bad when you are in the air, but in the staging area it can really suck. I don't know about that. I went to the Las Vegas tunnel in early July and it was damn hot in the airstream. It was like being stuck over the world's largest blow dryer. And then there was that viynl ballon suit. I literally lost 20 pounds that day. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #16 April 20, 2004 QuoteI don't know about that. I went to the Las Vegas tunnel in early July and it was damn hot in the airstream. It was like being stuck over the world's largest blow dryer. And then there was that viynl ballon suit. I literally lost 20 pounds that day. Different type of tunnel. The new designs make those look like box fans."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 April 20, 2004 QuoteI understand there are ongoing discussions for an recirculating indoor Tunnel north of Chicago. Suposedly its for real. Time will tell. There is a really kick ass recirculating tunnel in Chicago already. It is at the Universtity there...I think windspeeds up to almost 300 MPH. However it is horizontal, and I don't know the cost. I have been told by Kallend that they use Ice water to keep the temperature to +/- one degree. Kallend has more knowledge (Gee there is a surprize) but I really doubt that a really good design will be affordable."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #18 April 20, 2004 The planned UK Skyventure was to be indoors, so kinda recerculating air.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #19 April 20, 2004 QuoteAs I understand tunnel technology the venturi effect used significantly cools the air as it enters the tunnel I think thats reversed. A venturi will compress the air. The compression should heat, not cool the air. However the exahaust when the air expands after being compressed would be cooler than the air in the middle of the venturi. Now I could be wrong... But whne I fill a SCUBA tank with O2 I have to be careful to watch the temp. And when you vent air from a full tank the air comming out of it is very cold. Like I said I could be wrong, but I think that the venturi will heat the air. Kallend?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #20 April 20, 2004 QuoteThe planned UK Skyventure was to be indoors, so kinda recerculating air The Mantos tunnel is enclosed...And damn does it get hot in there. The best plan would be an open tunnel that could be closed in the winter with vents that could be opened to let cold air in to regulate the tempurature. But that is a very expensive test building."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #21 April 20, 2004 QuoteThat would seriously depend on how much of the cost covers initial investment and overhead. At the price of them things, I bet their is not much room for price wars. It makes sense, however the business becomes more and more competitive. There are already several tunnels in US and Europe and more are coming. European skydives who used to train in US will now use the local tunnels. I bet the prices will go down at some point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBobinNC 0 #22 April 20, 2004 This may be a little off topic, but what is the word on the street about the construction of the NC tunnel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #23 April 21, 2004 Quote 1. Whuffo rides. The Orlando Tunnel will do fine since if can always recover the lack of skydiver hours with whuffo rides. an AZ tunnel, and maybe the Perris tunnel will not do this as well. not so sure about this, Eloy gets a large number of grey haired visitors, many of them can be talked into doing tandems after a bit of conversation (i've helped a few make up their minds) many more could be talked into tunnel time after watching for a bit...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #24 April 21, 2004 Quotenot so sure about this, Eloy gets a large number of grey haired visitors, many of them can be talked into doing tandems after a bit of conversation (i've helped a few make up their minds) many more could be talked into tunnel time after watching for a bit... I bet its nothing compared to the volume of young studs and grey hairs that pass though I drive in Orlando."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #25 April 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteI understand there are ongoing discussions for an recirculating indoor Tunnel north of Chicago. Suposedly its for real. Time will tell. There is a really kick ass recirculating tunnel in Chicago already. It is at the Universtity there...I think windspeeds up to almost 300 MPH. However it is horizontal. some what off topic but has anyone tried tracking/wingsuits or just freeflying in a horizontal tunnel?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
