BikerBabe 0 #1 February 17, 2004 Here's the hypothetical: You're ready to exit, you check your handles, and everything is good. The exit funnels, and by the time everyone gets back, you feel something flapping on your rig. You look, but you can't see what it is. One of your fellow jumpers points at you, then at her cutaway handle. You immediately know what's flapping around now. You're still around 6000 ft or so, but by this time you can feel the cutaway handle flapping around against the back of your rig. What do you do? **** Here's what I did when it happened to me this weekend. I reached for the cutaway handle once. I couldn't get it because it was basically behind me at that point. It was out enough that at least one of my three-rings would have been disconnected. Then I went to my reserve. Lost my freebag because I opened at 5000 ft above the ghetto at Perris and no one saw it. Afterward, there were some that questioned my decision to not cutaway first (as if I had a choice). Would you have spent more time trying to find the cutaway handle? I had NOT deployed my main. If you were in this situation and had been able to find the handle, would you have pulled it the rest of the way out? I'm pretty sure of my answer to the last question, but I was looking for other opinions. That was definitely a weird situation that I never hope to experience again!Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #2 February 17, 2004 Why would you cutaway first? If your cutaway handle is out and you know it, open the only canopy that is still attached to your rig. You did the right thing. Cutting away wouldnt really hurt, but now we are down to semantics. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #3 February 17, 2004 If your pilot chute has not been thrown, then your pin should still be in place, right? Why cutaway? I am not sure I understand, someone please fill me in. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #4 February 17, 2004 QuoteIf your pilot chute has not been thrown, then your pin should still be in place, right? Why cutaway? I am not sure I understand, someone please fill me in. As far as I can tell, you are exactly right. If you have not initiated a main canopy deployment, initiate reserve deyployment if you know your cutaway handle is out. They only reason I can think of is having one set of emergency procedures- ie cutaway, pull reserve. I dont do that, but I have heard it. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #5 February 17, 2004 I probably would have thrown my main pilot chute out. There is a chance that the handle wasn't out far enough to have cut things away. If it opens, and assuming you are high, you can spend some time putting the cables further in. If not, well you haven't lost much, other than the extra effort of retrieving your main canopy. If, on the other hand, the cutaway handle is completely gone, then go directly to reserve. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #6 February 17, 2004 Quote probably would have thrown my main pilot chute out. My freebag costs about $150. Add a zero to that for my main. Plus I'ld hate to have on riser gone and one not. If my handle was anymore that out of the pocket, I would pull the reserve. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigG 0 #7 February 17, 2004 Quote You're still around 6000 ft or so, but by this time you can feel the cutaway handle flapping around against the back of your rig. I had a similar incident few weeks ago where my reserve handel was dislodged from its place and was flopping around. I was fairly high, so I went on my back while holding onto my handel. It looked like it hand not moved much so I decided to go for my main while holding on to the reserve handel. After the main opened I put the reserve handel back in its place. Rest of the jump went uneventful apart from the bollackin I gave my friend for messing with my handles on the jump. Quote What do you do? I would have done the same, pull the cutaway first and then go for the sliver. As someone pointed out before that if the p/c and main pin are in place so the main would not deploy. Now..if for some reason the main deploys after your reserve opening (shit happens!!), it should not be a major problem (such as two canopies out or risk of entanglement) cause you have already cut the main away. So I think you did the right thing. I know what it feels like to loose a reserve p/c. I had lost my main & my reserve p/c some time ago. Dont worry too much about it...those things can be replaced. The lesson I learned from that jump was that any thing (which we dont normall think of!) can go wrong on ANY jump, so be prepared at ALL times. Once again you did the right thing. Well done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 February 17, 2004 Toss out the main and prepare to look up at a really cool spinning mal. If it was good thats a bonus.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #9 February 17, 2004 First up, I would have done the same. If I had _not_ initiated main deployment, I would go straight to the reserve. . Second, this sounds like a situation I was in when on student status. I learnt on student gear with a chest mounted ripcord. On one jump, I was lazy with my "Look, reach, pull" and didn't look enough. Instead of pulling the ripcord, I managed to knock it out of its holder and it was flapping around my side. I ran my hand up the MLW from the hip, felt the ripcord cable, grabbed it and pulled. If I hadn't of been able to grab it, it would have been reserve time... Anyway, since my ripcord and your cutaway handle are in the same place, and your were high, you could have run your hand up your MLW, grabbed the cutaway cable (not the handle) and pulled it out. Possibly. Please note that I am not an instructor. I would have done as you did and gone straight for reserve. I'm just offering my side of a similar situation.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 February 17, 2004 QuoteToss out the main and prepare to look up at a really cool spinning mal. I know you are kidding, but an RSL (if installed) could result in a main/reserve entanglement in the RSL-side 3-ring was the only side that was released. Andy, do/did you have an RSL? You did the right thing regardless. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #11 February 17, 2004 QuoteHere's what I did when it happened to me this weekend. I reached for the cutaway handle once. I couldn't get it because it was basically behind me at that point. It was out enough that at least one of my three-rings would have been disconnected. Then I went to my reserve. Lost my freebag because I opened at 5000 ft above the ghetto at Perris and no one saw it. I think you did exactly the right thing. When there is good reason to suspect the 3-rings have been compromised do not deploy the main but go directly to the reserve instead. If I was already at terminal I'd probably take it down to a normal deployment altitude. Your freebag may show up. I lost a freebag over downtown Perris (CRW load) and it was turned in at manifest 3 days later. QuoteAfterward, there were some that questioned my decision to not cutaway first (as if I had a choice). Would you have spent more time trying to find the cutaway handle? I had NOT deployed my main. If you were in this situation and had been able to find the handle, would you have pulled it the rest of the way out? I'd have tried only once to find a flapping handle by tracing the cutaway cables from the harness to the handle. If that didn't work, I'd just skip it until I was under a functioning reserve. I'm not a big fan of dangling handles, so either way I would pull it the rest of the way out and stow it in my jumpsuit. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markn 0 #12 February 17, 2004 I'm not addressing the question about whether BikerBabe should or should not have cut away but rather would like to point out something about her attempts to reach for her cutaway handle while it was behind her. Why try to reach all the way for the handle if you know it is all the way behind you? The handle is still connected to the cutaway cables which are still partially threaded into the cutaway cable housing. If you DO want to cut away in this scenario why not just grab the cutaway cables where the handle would have been and pull the rest of them out? Just a thought in case this happens to someone in the future... I'm glad everything worked out fine for you. You lived to tell about it and that is more important than what you did or didn't do... -- markn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #13 February 17, 2004 Sorry, I wasn't clear in my description. Somewhere it's all on video, but I didn't even think to get a copy of it. QuoteThe handle is still connected to the cutaway cables which are still partially threaded into the cutaway cable housing. If you DO want to cut away in this scenario why not just grab the cutaway cables where the handle would have been and pull the rest of them out? That is what I tried, but since it's a new rig and I clean the cables regularly, they aren't exactly easy to grip. I was doing RW, and I was wearing gloves. My hand slid along the cables, and I couldn't reach the pillow. Derek, I didn't have an RSL connected, and I'm glad. It adds a lot of scary scenarios to the "what might have been" list. As for deploying the main, it didn't even cross my mind. I was really lucky to be on a skydive with a group of heads-up people, including the camera flyer. It could have been a lot worse if not for them. Also, I'd like to add a shout out to Velocity Sports. I had a terminal reserve opening and my legs aren't even bruised, and I'm convinced it's because of my awesome Infinity leg straps. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #14 February 17, 2004 >That is what I tried, but since it's a new rig and I clean the cables regularly, they aren't exactly easy to grip. Put a finger and thumb around them and pull. Your fingers will slide along the cable until they reach the handle, and then they will extract the rest of the cables. Don't worry about which way to pull, just get your hand around it and pull outwards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #15 February 17, 2004 Wow, thanks for the post. I'll admit it, after reading this post I hadn't thought this situation all the way through. Good stuff to think about. Glad it worked out for you. Blues, NathanBlues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #16 February 17, 2004 You did fine.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #17 February 17, 2004 You did fine "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #18 February 18, 2004 good answer, flip on your back and chances are your handle will come around for you to see. If not go back to belly and do the reserve. Hey you landed ok I agree with bikerbabe but would I have done that?? who knows, but it was my 1st thought even before reading the posts. But your pilot was still stowed which is cool. Congrats on your decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #19 February 18, 2004 hmmmmm... I'm not sure,,, if I would go immediately to my reserve..... especially if you identify such a problem,,, and are at 6,000 feet..I sure would NOT keep falling to get lower,, soas to reduce the likelihood of any of my gear,, freebag etc... blowing away..... plus I'd rather NEVER deploy my reserve AT terminal,, if at all possible. If just the handle is displaced,,,, I think I communicate my intentions to those around me.... check directly over head,,,, wave hard,,,,,, and deploy my main...If it holds,,,,, great... situation under control,, just a long canopy ride... EVERY time I open,,, as soon as I have done a good visual scan of my surroundings, and taken my toggles in hand,,,,, I ALWAYS,,, do a visual check on BOTH my main riser locking loops,,,, to be sure that they are not anywhere near to having the locking cable near the release point.....If the 3 ring release handle was loose,,, but not to the point of releasing a cable.... I might consider reaching over and more properly seating one or both of the cable ends...... then re-velcro the handle..... All this while no longer in terminal freefall.....and yet still WAY above my reserve hard deck.. IF the cable or cables HAVE pulled too far.... then the main will leave me ,,, but it may have deaccelerated me a bit.... which means that NOW as I pull my reserve I am no longer "bookin".... of course if ONE riser lets go....then I would complete the cutaway first... . So altitude would be our friend here.......( all the more reason NOT to keep falling) I frequently jump with cameras,, and so I don't use an RSL.....I am also way off student status or novice status,,,, and so I would would not automatically,,, "just pull my reserve".... However at different stages of experience levels... certain responses to certain situations may be different for each of us.... But since your question asks,,, what would each of us do....BikerBabe.,,, I have replied accordingly.... Plus with my response,,,,, no reserve opening,,, no gear to chase after, no reserve to be repacked ..... no big deal..... Most rigs leave a good few inches of locking cable PAST the nylon locking loops of the 3 ring assembly... and so just because the handle is loose, and flapping around..... does not mean a release has occurred.... Fact is,, the longer you fall and let the handle flap away,,, the greater the likelihood,,, that a cable WILL pull free.... Remember the sytem is not under any tension,( which would HOLD the cable in place ) until we load the main risers.... but even then.... It should be possible to manually slide those cables,,, FURTHER up into the proper position....Excellent question for discussion,,, and Good Job on your handling of the emergency.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #20 February 18, 2004 Thanks for all your responses. I posted this more to get people thinking about it, since I had never really thought about it before it happened to me. Now people have thought about it, so if it happens to you, you may have more options! As for dumping my main, I KNEW the cutaway cable was out enough to have cutaway at least one side of the canopy, and I DIDN'T know if I would be able to find the cutaway once I was under a violently spinning main (I jump a Jedei 105 loaded about 1.5). I did the right thing for me at the time. I wish I had the video to post.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #21 February 18, 2004 QuoteI KNEW the cutaway cable was out enough to have cutaway at least one side of the canopy,... Why do you think it would have a likelihood of only one side having been released? Don't disagree with your actions at all, but I am wondering just a bit about this aspect of your perceptions and thoughts on this event. Please elaborate on that for me if you would. THANKS! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #22 February 18, 2004 I think she was think at least one side would release, and maybe both, but it was an unknown. I don't think she thought for sure only one side would have released. Andi- correct me if I am wrong. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #23 February 18, 2004 I see.... thanks for clarifying.. must be I didn't read your original post thoroughly enough...my bad...Did your reserve opening cause your 3 ring release handle to leave you,, upon it's deployment.... When you landed was just one side disconnected,,, or both......?? and for sure... judging by your main canopy size and shape ( elliptical?? ) ,, you did the right thing... ( I jump a big ole' spectre 210... never had a spinning opening) ... so as I say... we may EACH have our own personal response to similar emergencies hahahaha..... best to be careful,,, right out the door..... "can you say??? 9 way tube dive" ???? skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #24 February 18, 2004 Well, because it was out far enough to be hitting me on the back of my rig, but not out enough to disengage from me completely. Sure, I could have been wrong, but when one is falling at 120 mph and has precious few seconds to decide what to do, one doesn't try to form a doctoral dissertation on the relative probabilities of the likelyhood of one or both sides being cutaway already. I chose the worst-case possibility and went from there. ETA: The cutaway handle stayed with me upon opening, thank goodness. When I haad the time to look, the short cable was almost entirely out (about 1" left inside the housing). After opening (which upon reflection really wasn't that hard...maybe because I was braced for it) I found the pillow, pulled it the rest of the way out, and stowed it. No need to have it flopping around under canopy.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #25 February 18, 2004 Completely understood. And now that I've read your profile (something I did not do prior to my last post) I realize my "fishing" expedition was also completely out of line. Thanks for humoring me though, none-the-less! Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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BikerBabe 0 #20 February 18, 2004 Thanks for all your responses. I posted this more to get people thinking about it, since I had never really thought about it before it happened to me. Now people have thought about it, so if it happens to you, you may have more options! As for dumping my main, I KNEW the cutaway cable was out enough to have cutaway at least one side of the canopy, and I DIDN'T know if I would be able to find the cutaway once I was under a violently spinning main (I jump a Jedei 105 loaded about 1.5). I did the right thing for me at the time. I wish I had the video to post.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #21 February 18, 2004 QuoteI KNEW the cutaway cable was out enough to have cutaway at least one side of the canopy,... Why do you think it would have a likelihood of only one side having been released? Don't disagree with your actions at all, but I am wondering just a bit about this aspect of your perceptions and thoughts on this event. Please elaborate on that for me if you would. THANKS! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #22 February 18, 2004 I think she was think at least one side would release, and maybe both, but it was an unknown. I don't think she thought for sure only one side would have released. Andi- correct me if I am wrong. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #23 February 18, 2004 I see.... thanks for clarifying.. must be I didn't read your original post thoroughly enough...my bad...Did your reserve opening cause your 3 ring release handle to leave you,, upon it's deployment.... When you landed was just one side disconnected,,, or both......?? and for sure... judging by your main canopy size and shape ( elliptical?? ) ,, you did the right thing... ( I jump a big ole' spectre 210... never had a spinning opening) ... so as I say... we may EACH have our own personal response to similar emergencies hahahaha..... best to be careful,,, right out the door..... "can you say??? 9 way tube dive" ???? skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #24 February 18, 2004 Well, because it was out far enough to be hitting me on the back of my rig, but not out enough to disengage from me completely. Sure, I could have been wrong, but when one is falling at 120 mph and has precious few seconds to decide what to do, one doesn't try to form a doctoral dissertation on the relative probabilities of the likelyhood of one or both sides being cutaway already. I chose the worst-case possibility and went from there. ETA: The cutaway handle stayed with me upon opening, thank goodness. When I haad the time to look, the short cable was almost entirely out (about 1" left inside the housing). After opening (which upon reflection really wasn't that hard...maybe because I was braced for it) I found the pillow, pulled it the rest of the way out, and stowed it. No need to have it flopping around under canopy.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #25 February 18, 2004 Completely understood. And now that I've read your profile (something I did not do prior to my last post) I realize my "fishing" expedition was also completely out of line. Thanks for humoring me though, none-the-less! Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
