Skydiving-the last 10 years

[dz-dog 0]

Just a few thoughts by someone who has been away from the sport for 10 years.
I just made 4 jumps this last weekend at a drop-zone within an hours drive from my home after not jumping for the past 10 years. First of all the commardie-ship has not changed one bit. The friendly helpful fellow skydivers made me feel welcomed back to a sport that can only be fully appreciated by actively participating in it.
However I was surprised to see that "freefly" has been the activity of choice for many that are now participating in skydiving and that RW is now called "belly flying". I'm curious about this change of freefall style. Have all the records been accomplished in RW? Is freeflying the next frontier in skydiving record setting? And if so, can higher and higher number record settings be accomplished?
Also I'm curious about he history of "freeflying".
Is this a spin-off of "freestyle"?
There seems to be more variety in what can be enjoyed while falling through the air. I wonder what the next ten years has in store for this sport?

[BIGUN 1,095]

Well, my personal goal is to change the terminology. If we are belly-flyers, then they must be "Butt-flyers"

In all fairness to our butt-flying friends, they have taken skydiving to a whole new dimension. They appear to be very attuned to all three dimensions of skydiving. Being one of the RW guys, I have done some FF'ing and it is fun. Ya know how you used to go out and just do backflips and barrel rolls and other manuevers on a solo skydive; well they do the same thing on every jump. It's fun with very little dirt-diving.

There has been "some" narrowing of the gap between FF'ing and RW with the new hybrid dives and even the SCRs now have a vSCR and vSCS. I look forward to the day we can build some form of Borg cube together.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Tonto 1]

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I wonder what the next ten years has in store for this sport?

Wingsuits.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[docjohn 0]

Our time has come and gone. I can remember jumping in the mid 70's. We were the cool RW jumpers. We used to laugh at the 'old guys' who did mainly style and accuracy.

Now, its gone full circle. We're the 'old guys' doing RW while the cool freeflyers are laughing at us.

So, all you freeflyers, look out. 30 years from now, you'll be the 'old guys' freeflying while the cool new generation is............ doing style and accuracy? Who knows.

It doesn't matter. Just keep skydiving.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[Kramer 0]

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Now, its gone full circle. We're the 'old guys' doing RW while the cool freeflyers are laughing at us.

Secretly, I think a lot of us think you guys are the shit (that's slang for "one cool mo-fo"). Some of the coolest, craziest, greatest skydivers I know are "belly-fliers" who have been in the sport for 30 some years. And another thing...we all secretly wish you guys would come try to freefly with us sometime, so we can feel like we're better than you at something...even if only for a couple seconds. (At least that's my take on the scene).

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[tbrown 26]

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Well, my personal goal is to change the terminology. If we are belly-flyers, then they must be "Butt-flyers".

I prefer to think of myself as a "gut glider". I hate the word "bellyflying", it's like something the young punks use to snicker at us, like it was somethin' to be ashamed of. Haven't done any freeflying yet, but I think it looks pretty cool. I even call it "hip hop skydiving".

But relative work and RW are words we made up for ourselves and by God we should hang onto them. Fuck this "formation skydiving" crap, it's RW. We invented it, that's what it's called and if you don't like it, go fly on your butt....

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[EricaH 0]

I've also heard freeflying called VRW - V for vertical, since most of the RW is vertical when freeflying. yea!!

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[Casurf1978 0]

Quote

Quote

I wonder what the next ten years has in store for this sport?

Wingsuits.

t

Excuse the stupid less than one year in this sport newbie question. But do you think someone will land a wingsuit in the near future? If so then is that the way this sport is heading, i.e., landing w/o a canopy.

[Jskydiver22 0]

Yeah i have heard about the idea of people landing wingsuits, but i think the idea was blown apart when they kinda figured out that to be able to actually slow yourself down that much there would be a ton of pressure.

The problem with that is that they said it would be enough to rip a persons chest in two.

Now we dont want that happening now do we?

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[jumperconway 0]

Yea. depends on the DZ but after doing 100+ways over the weekend at Perris, Belly flying is FAR from dead! I will be on the 400 way in 2006!

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Excuse the stupid less than one year in this sport newbie question. But do you think someone will land a wingsuit in the near future? If so then is that the way this sport is heading, i.e., landing w/o a canopy.

Have at it with the forum 'Search'. It's been discussed alot and there are numerous opinions (both educated and uneducated).

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Tonto 1]

There are already 6 people that I know of who have landed a wingsuit. Not one of them will ever do it again. Those experienced skydivers who debate the idea are dreamers, and whether or not their quest is ever successful, we'll benifit from their endevours. For now.. I'll keep using my parachute at the end of my wingsuit jumps.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kramer 0]

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There are already 6 people that I know of who have landed a wingsuit.

Umm....really?!

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[BigTeo 0]

ma daiiiii!!

Teo

[Tonto 1]

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There are already 6 people that I know of who have landed a wingsuit.

Umm....really?!

Yes. Really. And they really won't do it again.
There was also a dude in Kansas a few years back with lines wrapped around his feet, but I don't have the documentation to back that one up.

t

Appendix B – Wingsuit fatalities
#67 Kirill Kiselev, September, 2002
Age: 27, from Ekaterininburg, Russia.
Cliff Jump (Wing Suit)
Vikesaxa (Eiksdalen Valley) Norway
Impact

I received this report from a close friend of Kirill who witnessed or heard most of the jump. Kirill has 500 skydives with 20 being with a wing suit, and 30 BASE jumps, with 2 being with a wing suit. This fatality began with an inadvertent low pull from a man who didn't do low pulls. His friend believes Kirill encountered a stability problem late in the flight. The friend, along with authorities, inspected Kirill's body and gear at the hospital. Kirill had opened his canopy, the slider is at the links. Both toggles are still stowed. The wing zippers are closed and the swoop cords are still over his fingers. The wing fabric between his legs is torn. His broken neck and one broken leg suggest opening and impact occurred at about the same time. The report intimates failure of the wingsuit material between Kirill's legs caused a stability problem at pull time. By the time Kirill stopped trying to overcome the situation and deploy, it is too late. Kirill is the first BASE jumper to die flying a wingsuit on a BASE jump.
#68 Rob Tompkins, September 12, 2002
Lysbotn, Norway
Cliff Jump (Wing Suit)
Kjerag
Impact

This is the second wing suit BASE fatality. Rob has 247 BASE jumps with 92 being with a wing suit on the day he died. A report states: "For the last month, Rob had his eye on a particular jump between launch points 4 and 5. We looked at it, doing rock jumps and basically studying the jump. There are two launch points next to this particular jump, one with a 7-second drop and the other with an 8-second drop. Rob jumped the 7-second launch point 10 times always doing a reverse gainer. The place he's looking at now, he dubbed the, "RT Hjørner," and has a rock drop time of 5-seconds. We analyzed this site on video and with other wing suit pilots. In my opinion, the jump is not achievable - and I repeated this to Rob. Other wing suit pilots said the same thing. Rob is convinced he can do it including a reverse gainer. After 7 seconds of freefall Rob impacted the talus ledge. He never tried to deploy his pilot chute, knowing that this would not save him. Rob believed he could out fly the ledge right up until he died. Rob is remembered as a good man, full of respect, and kind to everyone."
#69 Lukas Knutsson, October 11, 2002
Cliff Jump (Wing Suit)
Engelberg, Switzerland (Cold Steel)
Impact

Lukas has a good launch and good flight with his wingsuit and pulled high over the landing area. This is the third BASE wing suit fatality. Despite a powerful pull the pilot chute ended up in the turbulence behind him. In the burble the pilot chute spun around very fast. Lukas notices the deployment is hesitating and collapsed his wings and rolled to one side to clear the pilot chute. At this point the pilot chute achieved bridle stretch but the bridle had entangled with the pilot chute so badly the pilot chute is almost totally collapsed. Lukas did rollover to the other side and struggled hard to get the canopy out of the container. However, the container remained closed to impact. Lukas is a very experienced long time BASE jumper (this site is now called "Cold Steel" in his honour) and he will be missed by the entire BASE community.
#75 Gabi Dematte, August 13, 2003
Cliff Jump (Wing Suit)
Gasterntal, Switzerland
Cliff Strike & Impact

The following report is from one of Gabi's many friends. "Gabi went to jump alone, like she did very often. Getting away from the crowds in Lauterbrunnen she went to another valley known by only a very few jumpers. She couldn't out fly a ledge with her wings. Which is awkward, because she kicked ass with those wings. She did not attempt to pull. Gabi was a very good jumper, and a super nice person. I was lucky to get to know her and I will treasure her contribution to my existence. For me, it was nice to jump with another woman. It was special and it did not last long enough. Lauterbrunnen valley is empty and quiet now." Gabi is the fourth BASE wing suit fatality."
#80 Jeff Barker, July 5, 2004
Age: 32
Cliff Jump
Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest
Impact

Jeff is jumping with a wingsuit and he failed to clear a outcropping in freefall.
#81 Duane Thomas, August 21, 2004
Age: 35
Cliff Jump
Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland

Duane, a Kiwi with a quick smile, is a well known and experienced BASE jumper. The following is from an eye witness. "The jump is witnessed by two British jumpers and two Swiss jumpers. One Brit watching, and videoing, from the exit point, the other three watching from the LZ. This is Duane's first wingsuit BASE jump, and his first jump ever with a leg mounted pilot chute pouch. Prior to this jump Duane prepared by making 50 aircraft and 2 hot air balloon wingsuit skydives. Duane had a good exit and a good flight. Everybody saw him reach for and locate the pilot chute at what the witnesses said is a reasonable altitude. He then kept his hand there and continued in freefall. The speculation is the lack of normal ground rush (like the type he is used to when not wearing a wingsuit) might have fooled him. The Swiss are yelling at him to pull and he finally did so, at what they said is about 30-feet above the ground. The canopy lifted out of the pack tray but is no where near line stretch when he impacted in a full flight position. According to the Swiss there is no fumbling around, or looking for the pilot chute handle - all the witnesses agree on this. He reached and located the pilot chute, but just took to long to deploy it. A hard pull cannot be fully discounted at this time, but all the witnesses believe he just waited too long." This is the sixth BASE wingsuit fatality since the first one occurred in September of 2002.

Reproduced with the kind permission of Nick Di Giovanni #194. The complete list can be viewed at:
http://www.basefatalities.info or http://hometown.aol.com/base194/myhomepage/base_fatality_list

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kramer 0]

You tricked me Tonto. Point well made.

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[happythoughts 0]

Years ago, I was talking to a guy who skydives and is a famous painter. (He did the wall at Heads). We were talking about this new thing that he called "head down" skydiving. I asked him to describe it.

"You stand on your head and skydive."
"Doesn't that just burn up your altitude and shorten the skydive?"
"Yeah, but it's great fun."
"I dunno. It doesn't sound like it will ever catch on."

[happythoughts 0]

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Yea. depends on the DZ but after doing 100+ways over the weekend at Perris, Belly flying is FAR from dead! I will be on the 400 way in 2006!

I don't think that they will be far behind. A while back, I asked a headdown jumper how they figured out their dirt dive.

"We don't plan. We are free-flying. We just enjoy the sky."
"Oh. So you don't turn points or anything?"
"No, turning points is too organized and takes the fun out of it."
"No formations?"
"No, we freeflyers will never do formations or that stuff."

Times change. Freeflyers are doing formations. Now there are invitation-only freefly big-way records.

[rehmwa 2]

You nailed it. Old times, the hot shit was baton passes - ooooooo (just few years ago the hot stuff was a single dock on a 2-way HD - see the parallel).

Now it's moving along. And only a few years behind the RW curve.

FF simply RW just with more intricate points available. And that's because there will always be competitive types to take any discovery and push it to it's very best. It's very cool.

It's not about not having structure (even if the hippies think so) - there are people like that in both disciplines. It's about another level of skill.

I'm thinking wingsuits will go the way of boards. neat gadget that will be popular with a small segment. I think skydiving is mostly about flying your body, not flying a tool. But you never know.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[happythoughts 0]

The only things that may make a difference are time/training and socialization.

Jump a board and the jump consists of you and your camera person (maybe). There has never been more than one or two people at a dz jumping boards. There is not too many opportunities for socialization. Wingsuit flyers can do flock stuff.

There is a recommended training level involved before you begin jumping a board. By the time people get 300 jumps and can do a stable stand, they are doing other stuff.

[pajarito 0]

I came up in the RW world (also when accuracy was still considered important) and that is my foundation. However, I think that picking one type of flying over another and doing nothing else is really limiting yourself. I think one should learn every aspect of maneuvering one's self through the air, whatever the dimension. If you give up the art of "belly flying" (which is the most aerodynamic and efficient form of body flight; just like an airplane using the maximum amount of control surface for maximum flight potential) for "butt + head” (ha..ha) flying, you'll never reach your full potential as a skydiver. I notice too many new skydivers opting for the "butt + head" route and not really learning how to “fly” their bodies. I think this is a mistake. I think one should learn the ropes of basic flight first "belly flying" and then progress to more advanced flying (i.e. no/limited lift dives). Just my thoughts. No offense to any "butt + heads" out there...

[billvon 2,462]

> but i think the idea was blown apart when they kinda figured out that to
> be able to actually slow yourself down that much there would be a ton of
>pressure.

Won't be more pressure than your body weight. Most people can support their body weight with their arms; the trick is just designing the suit so you can use the right muscles to do it.

>The problem with that is that they said it would be enough to rip a
>persons chest in two.

Ha! You can do a pushup, and it doesn't rip your chest in two - even though you are supporting most of your body weight on your arms.

[Zoter 0]

Hows about canopy and birdman flyers doing 'canopy' RW......

Hey it could happen

[Zoter 0]

Sobering stuff.......
I read with a happy heart which has turned sad...

Death is death and death is black....

However....the desire and kudos to eventually land a wingsuit...in whatever situation (an angled approach to a ski piste, a calm lake, or a field in the country) cant be taken away and I am no doubt some 'crazy' Norwegian, Swiss...or hopefully British 'pilot' will do it

Like all great achievements......the lives taken trying to achieve this goal will always be honoured ...and also pondered......'was it worth it?'
The only person who can qualify an answer to that question will be the first person to do it....

Crikes I would love to just fly a suit......but my hat goes off to soem of these Birdmen......pushing the envelope....some call it crazy and they might be right....but the skill is totally respectable

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm thinking wingsuits will go the way of boards. neat gadget that will be popular with a small segment. I think skydiving is mostly about flying your body, not flying a tool. But you never know.

Boards aren't popular because they limit the social interactions of skydiving too much - it's pretty much one active participant plus a camera flyer.

Headup/down is technically challenging enough that groups larger than 2-4 often don't work well. Those small numbers haven't limited it's acceptance as a discipline.

Wingsuits limit the climb-out possiblities so the maximum group size is usually smaller than you have with other forms of relative jumping, although you can still get six people out of an otter. You get twice the freefall. Suits being $600-$900 and there being no improvised substitute is probably the biggest limit to acceptance.