pchapman 262 #1 December 28, 2004 I was musing -- Would you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? As a rigger who has made a few BASE jumps in recent years (and not just at Bridge Day), I realize that I'd feel bit of a fraud if I expected customers to trust my reserve pack jobs, but I wasn't willing to trust my own single-parachute packs! The comparison isn't totally fair of course. There are risks in BASE beyond just whether the canopy will inflate once out of the pack. And one expects skydivers to use their reserve with more than minimal altitude. A benefit of doing both rigging & BASE is some crossover of packing skills, and appreciation for different techniques. Outside of parachute manufacturers, it seems that nobody researches parachute opening characteristics in as obsessively detailed manner as BASE jumpers. (Anecdote: In October '03 I made the nearly 10 hour drive down to Bridge Day. Meanwhile, back at my local DZ, an advanced student had problems finding his BOC handle, and ended up having the FXC AAD fire at 1000', or maybe a little less due to FXC tolerances. My fresh reserve pack job worked fine for him. So I had gone through a lot of planning, learning, equipment preparation, and travel in order to open a canopy at well under 1000 ft --- and off he goes and does the same without all the hassle. And he did it at terminal too. Mind you, I don't think he has ever come back to the DZ.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #2 December 28, 2004 I think you are comparing apples to Oranges here. You claimed later in your post how this isn't a totally fair argument - This is True. Quote As a rigger who has made a few BASE jumps in recent years (and not just at Bridge Day), I realize that I'd feel bit of a fraud if I expected customers to trust my reserve pack jobs, but I wasn't willing to trust my own single-parachute packs! I'm not a BASE jumper, but I'm sure you could vouch for me and say that there is a LOT that goes into the sport than just packing the single canopy, and the risks involved in the low & often obstructed depolyment. It's a way of life for some, just as skydiving is. If a Rigger does not want to make a Base jump, then that says absolutly nothing about his ability as a rigger, IMHO.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #3 December 28, 2004 QuoteI was musing -- Would you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? Could care less if he/she wanted to BASE. That is more a risk/reward decision than if they trust their own pack job. If a rigger refused to skydive with their own pack job on a main or reserve then I would have an issue._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #4 December 28, 2004 QuoteWould you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? As a rigger who has made a few BASE jumps in recent years (and not just at Bridge Day), I realize that I'd feel bit of a fraud if I expected customers to trust my reserve pack jobs, but I wasn't willing to trust my own single-parachute packs! Dude, that has got to be the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #5 December 28, 2004 Quote Would you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? Sure. I cant see how it makes any difference. I'm sure that you can be a good rigger without jumping from a plane either.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #6 December 28, 2004 I have no intention of BASE jumping any time soon. Not because i dont' trust my packing, but because i just have no desire to BASE jump. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 December 28, 2004 I understand what he means, and there is something to it. All other things being equal, a BASE jumping rigger is going to have an edge over his non-BASE counterpart. The former can't help but understand parachutes better than the latter. But, for all intents and purposes, it shouldn't matter to the point skydivers start seeking out BASE jumping riggers. I know riggers on both sides of the fence that should have their tickets lifted. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #8 December 28, 2004 QuoteWould you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? Sure. Now, would I want a rigger that us unwilling to pack his own reserve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #9 December 29, 2004 I would think deployment stability kills more BASE jumpers than packing (180 from a low shoulder). As a rigger, I am far more concerned about jumper performance than the pack job. I mean, if you clear the lines and flake the canopy reasonably. It is gonna work. If you drop a hip or shoulder and inch, it can kill you... That being said, Of course I would like to base jump. However, it would have to be on my own terms, on my own rig, neither of which are attainable right now. -Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #10 December 29, 2004 To further muddy the waters ... Hee! Hee! What about a rigger who did his last BASE jump 18 years ago, but packed 200+ reserves and had a half dozen "saves" in 2004? Where does that put him in your BASE-centric scheme? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #11 December 29, 2004 I don't remember the BASE canopy packing section on the FAA practical exam. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #12 December 29, 2004 Quote. All other things being equal, a BASE jumping rigger is going to have an edge over his non-BASE counterpart. The former can't help but understand parachutes better than the latter. NickD BASE 194 I believe this to be an absurd statement. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #13 December 30, 2004 QuoteQuote. All other things being equal, a BASE jumping rigger is going to have an edge over his non-BASE counterpart. The former can't help but understand parachutes better than the latter. NickD BASE 194 I believe this to be an absurd statement. Not absurd... sometimes true but not always. BASE has taught me a lot about parachutes and their functionality, more so than if I didn't have an enthusiasm for fixed object jumping. However there are non-base'ing riggers out there who are much more knowledgable than I. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #14 December 30, 2004 >>>All other things being equal, a BASE jumping rigger is going to have an edge over his non-BASE counterpart. The former can't help but understand parachutes better than the latter. NickD BASE 194<<< >>I believe this to be an absurd statement.<< You know, now that I read it in the sober light of day I agree with you, it was absurd, thanks. I'm was just thinking about what I knew and how I approached things in rigging before I started BASE jumping and got carried away. I know excellent riggers that never BASE jump. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #15 December 30, 2004 Quote>>>All other things being equal, a BASE jumping rigger is going to have an edge over his non-BASE counterpart. The former can't help but understand parachutes better than the latter. NickD BASE 194<<< >>I believe this to be an absurd statement.<< You know, now that I read it in the sober light of day I agree with you, it was absurd, thanks. I'm was just thinking about what I knew and how I approached things in rigging before I started BASE jumping and got carried away. I know excellent riggers that never BASE jump. There is some merit to the sentiment in a tangential kind of way. It all comes down to attitude. Some years back, Dave DeWolf had a group in his rigger's class who were all fun and games. They progressed well enough with the technical skills, but were vary cavalier about the whole thing. One of the instructors finally had his fill, and read them the Riot Act. He pointed out that people's lives depended on the execution of their duties as riggers, and that the attitude they displayed was unprofessional and inexcusable. Apparently the message got through, and they did beautifully thereafter. In the military, it is customary to pick one of the rigs packed by a rigger, hand it to him, and say "you're jumping this one." This has the effect of making it clear that every time they assemble a rig, someone's life depends on it - and it may well be theirs. There is a big difference between a parachute jump from an aircraft in flight, and stepping into dead air at three (or two) digit elevations. A reserve deployment that could be salvaged to a safe landing might amount to a BASE opening that guarantees disaster. So I agree that one needn't be a BASE jumper to be a good rigger, but I sure would prefer to know that my reserve was prepared by someone who packed it as carefully as a BASE rig than someone with the attitude that goes with packing the average skydiving main. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryP 0 #16 December 31, 2004 I'm a BASE'r and rigger (Oz Packer Class "A"). There's no other group of jumpers that pick every aspect of canopy deployment and opening than BASErs. With that said, it all really comes down to what the particular rigger is "competent and familiar" with. One thing I'd like to touch upon is what I call the "single parachute mentality" that comes across from some skydivers who preach to me that jumping with a single parachute system is foolish. ALL skydivers who jump with only one reserve are saying that they are willing (in the event of a chop) to put themselves in freefall with only one parachute (your reserve) on EVERY JUMP. Again... by the fact that you are willing to chop if needed on every jump you are saying that you are WILLING to be in freefall with only one parachute EVERY TIME. Your reserve setup IS a single-parachute system. Anyone who is not willing to do this should have a good hard look at themselves and start jumping with a tersh. Reserves are not a magic panacea. They are just ANOTHER parachute, just like the main with just a couple of small differences. It's just that they are built to a more stringent standard and are packed and maintained better than a main but for the most part are JUST ANOTHER PARACHUTE. And it's been my experience that almost ALL mal's have somewhere come back to the human element - either through poor maintenence, execution or packing. Parachutes have a finite life. This is a constant. The variable is the human and the choices they make. There are BASE'rs that screw-up and there are skydivers that screw-up. Also, the performance requirements of BASE canopies and reserve canopies are different - a 180 with line-twists is an acceptable opening for a reserve but not for BASE. So I'd agree - apples and oranges. A rigger/packer who also BASE's would definitly have an edge but this isn't all that makes a competent packer/rigger. I'd definitly not trust someone who was not prepared to jump their reserve pack jobs in a single parachute scenario. No way. Cya - g."Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #17 January 1, 2005 QuoteWould you want to have a rigger who was unwilling to make a BASE jump? Sure, for skydiving. BASE and rigging have some crossover, but they're not the same thing. For BASE rigging? I'd definitely want a BASE jumper. And for skydiving rigging, I'd want someone who skydives.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
