kneal 0 #1 December 27, 2004 This is my first posting, so I beg for your compassion. And I would like to prefaces, by stating I am NOT a lawyer! Here is my question: Is there any regulation that requires DZ to have atleast one First Aid / Response personel on hand? I was recently involved in an accident that would have NOT been cmpounded, if a fellow skydiver would've left me alone. Her failed attempt to assist was to pull my CH while I was dangeling from a fence, then run back, allowing me to fall on my injuried ankle...compounding the fractures. I take full responsibility for my accident, but wonder if she would've had some simple training of "leave the injured alone...." I would be better off today. Not to mention if our DZ had a plan in place, everyone would know their rolls of how to handle an emergency. What are your thoughts? "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #2 December 27, 2004 I am not aware of a policy in place that REQUIRES a dz to have a first response person available and I don't think it would be feasible. Not quite sure I understand your situation. From what I have seen in the past at dz's, if they didn't have medical training they ususally didn't get involved unless its to sit with the injured person until trained medical arrived. Now with an ankle injuries that don't appear to be life threatening, we generally move people and drive them to the better hospital - at their request. Generally there is usually someone trained in first aid at the dz though and the fire dept usually doesn't take much time to get there. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #3 December 27, 2004 The first thing that comes to mind is if you were conscience did you communicate with her about your ankle being hurt prior to her pulling your cutaway handle? If you were conscience and was not communicating with her that you would prefer to be left alone, then in all reality it really is not her fault. Any DZ cannot guarantee that their personal will be the first to an emergency and if a fellow skydiver gets there first, due to proximity of the accident to them. The DZ cannot brief and hold everyone accountable in who is at the DZ and happens to be first on the seen of an emergency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kneal 0 #4 December 27, 2004 Funny enough..Yes...I was waving my arms and screaming "NO" as she attempted to pull my CH...but onlookers around her were screaming.."cut away"....I am the only EMT on site...and I was the injuried party..Ironic! I do understand what you are saying, and appreciate your response..You are correct...this woould be difficult to corrdinate...was hoping someone has a plan, that our DZ can copy.... "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #5 December 27, 2004 QuoteFunny enough..Yes...I was waving my arms and screaming "NO" as she attempted to pull my CH...but onlookers around her were screaming.."cut away"....I am the only EMT on site...and I was the injuried party..Ironic! Well now, that's a little different. YOU, being a trained medical pereson, may want to have a little seminar or at minimum speak with the DZO about how and who should respond and/or touch the injured person. I thought most of us learned that in grade school and high school. Were you off the ground dangling from the fence, and if so how high? Sorry you got hurt and hope you heal soon. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kneal 0 #6 December 27, 2004 I was hanging from an 8' chain link fnece....slider saved me from falling down...I was probably only about 6-8" from the ground...I would've appreciated a hand to place me safetly on the ground... And as far as me holding a training seminar...i need special certification for that... "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #7 December 27, 2004 QuoteI was hanging from an 8' chain link fnece....slider saved me from falling down...I was probably only about 6-8" from the ground...I would've appreciated a hand to place me safetly on the ground... And as far as me holding a training seminar...i need special certification for that... I now have a visual of what happened and it would have been nice to have someone to "catch" you when they pulled your cutaway handle. Heal quickly!Judy JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #8 December 27, 2004 QuoteFunny enough..Yes...I was waving my arms and screaming "NO" as she attempted to pull my CH...but onlookers around her were screaming.."cut away"....I am the only EMT on site...and I was the injuried party..Ironic! I do understand what you are saying, and appreciate your response..You are correct...this woould be difficult to corrdinate...was hoping someone has a plan, that our DZ can copy.... Sorry to hear about your injury and the way it went down. You may find the DZO reluctant to really have their employees trained and have a plan in place. The reason would be they would be openning themselves up to more liablity issues if by one of the DZO's employees does something wrong in an emergancy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #9 December 27, 2004 Sounds to me like a good topic for SAFETY DAY!! (It's only three months away!!) Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #10 December 27, 2004 My former DZ had similar problems. Too expensive to have an EMT on "Staff" there are some things you can do. We designated certain people to do certain things during an accident. One to handle the injured, one to make phone calls, one to handle the crowd. The entire Staff was to keep the "speculating" down to a minimum during a serious injury or death, especially if the press got wind of it. While you may not be licensed you can certainly "share" some basics to your skydiving friends, and I bet your DZO would support it especially during slow times of the year. Another situation that we had was major off landings, like five miles. We couldn't find him, we had the 182 and Caravan looking, while ground crew were searching as well. If our cook hadn't of been a volunteer fireman we may have never of found him. He and I were driving around looking with no luck. About 30 minutes into it his pager went off, he took my cell phone and called, it was a jumper in a back yard with a broken ankle (student) we found him. So to solve this problem we updated our aerial shot, broke it into grids and numbered them. Gave them to the pilots, manifest, ground crew, local authorities and EMT. Now when that situation occurs the "designated" person with a phone heads out with grid in hand, therefore when pilot or whoever radios or calls into the "designated" communicator (usually manifest in our case) of a location he can call the searcher. Person found quickly and with no confusion. Just some ideas that might be helpful, organize it to your DZ needs. Hope you recover fast, I know what you are going through I shoved the fib-tib out the side and bottom of my foot. Blue skies and keep jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kneal 0 #11 December 27, 2004 Thank you, those are great ideas....I will share these ideas with my DZ...this is exactly what I was hoping for! "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #12 December 28, 2004 Glad I could help, & I am sure there are others that can add to this. Blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 December 28, 2004 Good thought . . . I think we are far passed the point where large DZs should have a staff of EMTs at the ready. Seconds do count sometimes. Also, I've seen too much confusion when clueless wuffo med-techs respond to the DZ. When told by manifest on the phone a jumper didn't flare, they assume the worst. I've seen EMTs walking way slowly toward a broken leg, afraid of what they might see. Rigs get chopped up too when it's not always necessary. In Perris they always rolled a fire engine (waste of money and resources) along with the ambulance. This caused more than one injured jumper to say, "Oh crap, am I on fire too!" Most ski resorts have this service, why not DZs? With the amount of jumpers corkscrewing themselves into the ground these days, it makes more sense than ever and I think it would almost be a selling point for the DZ. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #14 December 29, 2004 It is never a waste of money or resources to respond an engine company on a potential life threat. I am a professional Paramedic/Firefighter of 14 years and I can not tell you the number of times I was on a scene and had to call in the troops for additional help. On an ambulance it's just you and your partner. Thats only 4 trained hands and sometimes only 2 of those hands belong to a Medic and I'm sure you have no clue as to how much needs to be done in a very short period of time to save a trauma victim.The more trained rescuers you can get on the scene and the faster they can get there means less trauma fatalities.......and to NickDG, you really don't need any special certification to give a safety lecture at your DZ. All it would simply take is an explanation of potential injuries and how certain movements and actions can complicate injury. Your not certifying anyone your just educating them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 December 29, 2004 QuoteMost ski resorts have this service, why not DZs? With the amount of jumpers corkscrewing themselves into the ground these days, it makes more sense than ever and I think it would almost be a selling point for the DZ. Ski patrols tend to be a volunteer outfit, much like mountain search and rescue teams. I'm not sure what perks they get for this responsibility, but they at least get to ski while doing it. They handle many accidents per day - does a typically sized DZ go weeks/months per accident? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #16 December 29, 2004 >>I can not tell you the number of times I was on a scene and had to call in the troops for additional help.<< You're right, of course, better safe than sorry . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #17 December 29, 2004 I always had the assumption that instructors would be trained in first aid. I believe my instructors may all have first aid certificates but this might be through their day jobs. What if the instructors land off DZ and the student gets hurt. My DZ also has a full first aid kit at the manifest, which includes splints and other items more likely to occur while skydiving (but I’m guessing this is normal). I plan to get recertified at first aid, because I figure if someone has a off DZ landing and I can make the same spot I would love to know what I could do to assist. Mind you I do so many silly things (snowboarding, skiing, motorbikes, climbing) it is surprising I have not kept my first aid up to date. Perhaps larger DZs could see if enough people are interested in getting certified and then get the ambulance service in to train (or whoever trains First aid near you). This way they can tailer it to emphasise on injuries that occur at a DZ. They do special courses near me for motorbike accidents. I mean even things like how to remove a helmet were not covered in much detail during the first aid course. I am sorry to hear that someone at the DZ pulled your cutaway without supporting you. Hope you are recovering well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #18 December 29, 2004 Something else I forgot. They had a great relationship with the local EMT's when we would throw big events like SkyFest the EMT's would bring out the ambulance and hang out all day. Ultimately it lead us to getting LifeFlight out there to do a seminar. They flew over us all the time. There are many things that can be done and something is better than nothing. C ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #19 December 29, 2004 I am a Firefighter/Emt, but not registered in the state I jump in. I will still provide services if something happens. I have even been scoring up equipment to keep on hand in case of a incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #20 December 29, 2004 Thats awesome, keep it up. I bet you could do some "training" as well. We have two Dr's that jump out there regularly, luckily the day my brother broke both femurs the two were there, saved his life. The put him in traction by placing a foot on each side of his hips and then pulled the feet until the medics arrived. I thank god that that DZ has those people jumping. Blue ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #21 December 29, 2004 One thing I find with nurses and doctors out of their hospitals is that "most" and I am using my experience with them on car crashes and such are useless out in the field without their tools and meds. There are alot of "Doctors" and "nurses" that people think know everything when it comes to fixing some up that do not know CPR or basic first aid. Liek I said that was not a flame, just my experiences with them in the field. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kneal 0 #22 December 29, 2004 *** To the best of my knowledge..Instructors, do NOT need to be trained in first aid. I guess this is an avenue I would like to explore. Most sports do require this from their instructors. But on the other hand I truely understand the level of responsibility you are asking from the individually...although, I do believe they would be protected by the "Good Samaritan" Law. I appreciate all of your responses and look forward to sharing with my DZ Owner. Thank you! Blue Skies "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #23 December 29, 2004 It does not protect from negligence(sp) and anyone can sue you for anything they want they just wont always win. Either way it puts you into the position of taking time and money to deal with it even if you win. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kneal 0 #24 December 31, 2004 don't you have a "Good Samaritan" Law? See the posting...just curious... "Don't waste the pretty"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #25 December 31, 2004 Yes there is well in Louisiana I know for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
