Question on being grounded

[Orange1 0]

I've seen some posts here that talk about grounding people for doing stupid (read: dangerous) things. Question: what is the purpose of this? Punishment? If someone is grounded at one DZ that does stop them jumping somewhere else? More importantly, if the mistake they made was due to low currency (as sometimes seems to be) doesn't grounding someone make this worse rather than better? Shouldn't the correct response be to require the person to undergo some kind of rebriefing?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ncrowe 0]

My guess is that if you did something that stupid the DZO just doesnt want the fatality on his dropzone?

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[tombuch 0]

Good points. If the jumper knows better and was just doing something stupid, then a grounding may be appropriate. If the jumper didn't know any better, then education is a better option. I like to start with discussion and education, then warnings. Groundings are very rare at my DZ.

Grounding a jumper for an extended period may send the problem to another drop zone, but shorter groundings tend to get the persons attention without driving him away. Plus, grounding a jumper can be used to demonstrate to others that the DZ is serious about rules/safety. When there is a serious issue that requires a longer term grounding, or a jumper is a serious threat to himself/others, a S&TA will sometimes call the nearby drop zones and offer a heads up so the problem isn't simply being pushed downstream.

Many years ago I was grounded for a few days following a naked low pull contest. I won with a score of about 500-700 feet. Yup, I was pissed, but I deserved the grounding, and I didn't pull that stunt at that DZ again.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[FrogNog 1]

I think a notable characteristic about grounding as punishment is that it's intended to be embarrassing. It follows that saying: "nothing lower than a grounded pilot."

I'm not saying embarrassing punishment is or isn't appropriate in various situations, but it is definitely a tool.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[darkwing 4]

Grounding a person is also a tool that serves as a reminder/lesson for jumpers other than the one grounded. That MAY be its most useful function.

I have grounded people in the past, and I pretty much viewed it as useful for both the offender and potential offenders. I think most old timers who have been grounded would agree.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[Tonto 1]

I've been grounded. At Citrusdal, in about 1989. I thought that dumb DZO was an idiot. I was in complete control. (Yeah, right!)

I've also grounded a few people. I have no doubt that they thought the same of me as I did of the person who grounded me.

I've gone hard line, and grounded someone PLUS let all the neighboring DZ's know. He ended up leaving the country and jumping in the US. We've since resolved those differences and he's back at the DZ doing a good job coaching FS.

When I ground someone I'm saying

a) There is consequence to your actions even if the ground doesn't get you. Others take note.

b) I'm sending what I think is an incident waiting to happen off my DZ. I've done my share of walking 50 yards around a fatal looking for bits of meat before the ants and the birds get them. If others want to prevent that - they can do it their way.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[btucker 0]

Someone I know got grounded for going low and botching emergency procedures. After they did retrainning they where allowed to jump at one dz, then two, eventually it was all good.

At another DZ a coupla dudes where on probabation and a very, very short chain; After drinking and jumping. I believe thats all good as well.

Another guy didn't jump much at a particular DZ after he screwed the DZO's chick and got caught!



So what did you do???? Spill the beans!

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I've seen some posts here that talk about grounding people for doing stupid (read: dangerous) things. Question: what is the purpose of this? Punishment? If someone is grounded at one DZ that does stop them jumping somewhere else? More importantly, if the mistake they made was due to low currency (as sometimes seems to be) doesn't grounding someone make this worse rather than better? Shouldn't the correct response be to require the person to undergo some kind of rebriefing?

[Reginald 0]

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Many years ago I was grounded for a few days following a naked low pull contest. I won with a score of about 500-700 feet. Yup, I was pissed, but I deserved the grounding, and I didn't pull that stunt at that DZ again.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[lowie 0]

In my brief involvement in this sport it appears grounding is a necessary part. It provides an excellent source of conversation and can result in beers being bought for certain offences.

[pchapman 264]

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Many years ago I was grounded for a few days following a naked low pull contest. I won with a score of about 500-700 feet. Yup, I was pissed, but I deserved the grounding, and I didn't pull that stunt at that DZ again.

Only at another DZ? :-)

An example of a grounding with an interesting twist:

Many years back a friend did a special jump with his buddies, that a couple of them ended up deciding to take really low (round reserves open at 300'). They were caught on ground video. The DZO had the video as leverage to enforce the grounding, threatening to sent it to the national skydiving organization.

Not only did the DZO ground the jumpers for a month, but the jumpers had show up at the dropzone every weekend to watch others jump!

[lawrocket 3]

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the jumpers had show up at the dropzone every weekend to watch others jump!

I think that this is great. Of course, people are going to ask them why they got grounded.

I actually learned more on those days when I went to the DZ and didn't jump (there were several of those days). Just talking, asking questions, absorbing what's going on. Self-grounding was very valuable to me.

Not only do the jumpers serve as an example for everyone to see, but they get to have others relate to them what's going on. I think that is fantastic.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Dougiefresh 0]

The purpose of grounding as it was explained to me was:
1. you understand what you did wrong (education);
2. you understand how to prevent it from happening again (education);
3. you are forced to watch others having fun and doing it right. (punishment, making you think about your mistakes, ensuring you won't forget what you learned)

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Designer 0]

A grounding is usually for a damn good reason.Having been grounded only once in 30 yrs.,tells you that I must have really screwed up.Instructor told us 3-way,that if we popped through the cloud layer(at 2,000)we would be grounded.Sure enough we had trouble getting it together until just before 2,000.It was not a real good feeling being totally open and flying at 1,400 ft. AGL.We were grounded for the rest of the day and learned a very valuable lesson.

[mjosparky 3]

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A grounding is usually for a damn good reason.Having been grounded only once in 30 yrs.,tells you that I must have really screwed up.Instructor told us 3-way,that if we popped through the cloud layer(at 2,000)we would be grounded.Sure enough we had trouble getting it together until just before 2,000.It was not a real good feeling being totally open and flying at 1,400 ft. AGL.We were grounded for the rest of the day and learned a very valuable lesson.

You must be a fast learner, a similar stunt got me 30 day.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Scrumpot 1]

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.It was not a real good feeling being totally open and flying at 1,400 ft. AGL.We were grounded...

At that point maybe you should have just forgotten to even pull at all, lest risk getting grounded (for a "low pull")?

Hey... DON'T PULL LOW! That is, of course unless that is where you is!

-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Many years ago I was grounded for a few days following a naked low pull contest. I won with a score of about 500-700 feet. Yup, I was pissed, but I deserved the grounding, and I didn't pull that stunt at that DZ again.

Which DZ did you pull that stunt at next time?

You know how to have a good time, buddy.

[Beverly 1]

We have had people grounded on our DZ for jumping with a spaceball, Which is not allowed on our DZ.
The grounding was a DZ specific grounding for 3 months.
One of the guys decided to make another DZ his home and the other came back after 3 months and continued jumping.

They were senior jumpers and filmed the whole thing - So major bust.

Normally there are warnings about other less drastic things like bad landings and landing in off limits areas.
3 strikes and you are out of there!!

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

[Orange1 0]

newbie question... what's a spaceball?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[mjosparky 3]

It is to remind some people that there are consequences for their actions.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[tdog 0]

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newbie question... what's a spaceball?

Take a ball, make it heavy enough to fall at the same rate of speed as you, then go play catch with your friends in freefall...

The problem is, when the game over buzzer sounds, if you have not caught it - something on the ground is gonna feel some pain.

[Peej 0]

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newbie question... what's a spaceball?

It's a ball that, once released into the air, falls straight down the tube - thus giving you a point of reference. So if you let it go and you're moving away from it you're backsliding, etc.
The easiest way to make one is to take a tennis ball, fill it with lead and attach a small tail.

The most dangerous part is if you fail to catch it before it's time to open. Imagine a tennis ball filled with lead buckshot hitting the gound at freefall speeds in amongst a group of people. Big mess.

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[Orange1 0]

thanks tdog and peej... so are they banned on most DZs then? (no, i'm not planning on trying to play with one anytime soon

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Peej 0]

Dammit, tdog beat me to it.

Hope our combined answers helped though.

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[tdog 0]

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Normally there are warnings about other less drastic things like bad landings and landing in off limits areas.
3 strikes and you are out of there!!

I suppose it could be argued that the most novice canopy pilot should be capable of not landing in off limit areas… But, I am surprised that anyone would make this a groundable offense… Reason… I believe (and it is published on the walls of more than one DZ) that it is better to land safe than to land into the wind in the designated landing area. Why motivate someone to have “get back itus” or “can’t land there itus”.

Just my two cents. I am hoping that rule is for people who intentionally land in the off limits areas, as opposed to those who are trying to save their lives from a prior poor decision, possibly rooted in poor education…

[Peej 0]

Hmmmm, i'll let the dudes from the US tell us about their rules. WRT SA: I know they're banned at JSC and i can't be sure about the rest of the country. I heard you could jump them down at skydive CT. Maybe Bev or Tonto would care to chime in about our MOP's?

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