My second tantem sucked!

[char1775 0]

I made my second tantem on Saturday and it sucked. My first tantem was in March and I thought I was hooked. But Saturday may have ended all of that.
The problems started when we showed up at 9:30 am and the weather wasn't cooperating. We were assured that the clouds would lift soon and we could jump. (It was either pay for the jump now that we were here or lose our deposit.)
4 people out of our group of 11 had made the jump in March. Out of us 4, 2 of us requested our original tantem masters. We were told that they would do what the could, but couldn't promise anything. (No names were noted anywhere when we asked and neither of our requests were granted.)
After about 4 hours of trying to wait out the weather a few of the group decided they were ready to make the 2 hour drive home. When they asked for a refund they were promptly told that wasn't possible, they could only issue a raincheck.
When they finally cooperated (at about 5 o'clock) our group was told that we probably wouldn't make it before they quit jumping for the evening so we should take our rainchecks. We all agreed that we had stuck it out all day and would be there until the plane quit flying. With 9 of our group remaining they still split us up onto 3 different jumps and told 1 of our group that he wouldn't be able to jump. (They had many different reasons, but he did get to jump the sunset load and loved it.)
On to my jump. I jumped with a new tantem master. I did tell him that I had a previous tantem jump and was considering taking the AFF course. So with my enthusiasm I was allowed to deploy the chute and NOTHING else on the entire jump. There was no chit chat on the plane ride up. My instructions were to pull when I received the signal and that was it. It SUCKED!
Overall this experience sucked. I was tired, bored and ended up scared more this time than the time before. I am not at the point that I could care less if I ever jumped from a plane again.
Ok. I have ranted enough. I just wondered if this was anywhere near normal practice. Do any dz's give refunds? Are requests for specific instructor's taken seriously? If I do decide to jump again it will be at a different DZ.

I feel a little better now that I got that off of my chest!!

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I did not recieve that kind of treatment, but if u love the sky dont give in now. I have always been treated great in the sport and have always been told I would recieve a refund or partial one as long as i wasnt suited up and about to load , if it was weather hold I got a refund , I am not experience d enough to know if what u got was standard but I am assuming it is not. Where was this at?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[funks 1]

First off, it is a tandem, not a tanTem. Secondly, I am sorry to hear you werent happy with the experience. Tandem masters are human, some have personalities, some dont. Do not let one sour experience influence your decision to become a skydiver.

As far as the refund goes I would check the dzs website for their policy and/or call back at a later date and personally ask the DZO what their policy is. All dz's have different policies when it comes to refunds.

[Frenchy68 0]

Too bad you didn't enjoy it as much as your first. Don't know about the refund policies of different dzs. However, I can understand the DZ not being able to oblige with pairing a specific TM master with a specific student, especially on a day that saw weather delays. When the weather clears up, you try to get as many students up in the air (safely), so it becomes hard to predict who will be available when. As for doing nothing else than pulling, did you confront your TM master and ask him why you were not allowed to do anything else? Maybe he had a good reason (long spot, etc...).
Once again, too bad you felt this way...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[pilotdave 0]

You won't find any sympathy here when it comes to the weather hold. Happens to ALL of us. More often in some parts of the world than others of course.

As for the rest of it, well, at least it was your second jump so you know it could have been better. Different instructors have different styles, and by the end of a long day, your instructor might just not have been in the best mood.

Go back for AFF and you'll never have to worry about having too little to do on a skydive again!

Dave

[f1shlips 2]

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On to my jump. I jumped with a new tantem master. I did tell him that I had a previous tantem jump and was considering taking the AFF course. So with my enthusiasm I was allowed to deploy the chute and NOTHING else on the entire jump. There was no chit chat on the plane ride up. My instructions were to pull when I received the signal and that was it. It SUCKED!

I'm not sure I why no chit-chat on the plane made pulling SUCK. However, some people are talkative and some aren't. Tandem masters are people too... Did you try to talk to anyone else on the plane? Personally I like to close my eyes and not talk on the ride up.

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I was tired, bored and ended up scared more this time than the time before.

Wait till you've invested $$$'s in gear and training and worked hard all week just to make it to the weekend... and it rains all weekend. Hanging out at the dz socialising/staving off boredom is part of the experience.

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Are requests for specific instructor's taken seriously?

If they can, but its not possible sometimes.

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When they asked for a refund they were promptly told that wasn't possible, they could only issue a raincheck.

Caveat emptor. That type of thing is a DZ policy and varies from DZ to DZ. They probably have a sign posted about it, or you signed something to that effect.

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[Dagny 0]

Since we're bitchin'....

My tandem went on a weather hold, too! Damn clouds and rain made me sit at cracker barrel eating biscuits with strawberry jelly. Grrr! And then, once the weather cleared enough to let us jump and everyone was getting geared up, there wasn't anywhere to put my camera while I was in the air! I made my friend, the one who was told after a two hour drive that he couldn't do a tandem because he exceeded the weight limit, hold it for me. The whole way up, one of the TM's had the nerve to pretend to be sleeping! And, I didn't get to pull anything! Hell, I didn't even know the TM was throwing out until I had a chest strap in the neck practically strangling me to death. Double GRRRRR!

Seriously, though, I wish your second tandem had been a greater experience for you, but sometimes they rock your world and sometimes they don't. One of the greatest lessons to be learned in this sport is patience and how to have a good time while you're on the ground. If you love being in the air, take up AFF and I think you'll be happy when you see that a whole new world has opened up to you. Just don't forget that one of the best parts of being on a dz is spending time with friends. So, get more involved, buy beer, be friendly and I think your complaints will eventually resolve themselves.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[wuffo 1]

I'd be willing to bet money this person went to ASC/Skyride to jump. Just a hunch, but it just sounds like it to me.

[aftermid 0]

Welcome to skydiving! Some days the weather sucks, some weekends they weather sucks, some weeks the weather sucks, some months the weather sucks. Wait till there are crisp blue skys and 14mph winds, and everyone but the students are jumping, and guest what you're a student.

I took 5 days off to do my AFF and got 1 and half days of jumping in. I was pretty bummed out until I realized that my livleyhood wasn't dependent on being able to jump for those days like many people involved with the DZ. My ability to earn a living, pay my morgage, buy food for may family, or mearly save for the future wasn't being adversley effected by the weather. I simply had to postpone an activity that I really wanted to do. It always amazes me that when I think about how something effects others instead of being incredibly self-centered, I always see how good I've got it.

The DZ I did a tandem and my AFF at didn't give refunds only rainchecks. Part of a deposit is the commitment to future purchase. Most DZ's doing tandems are businesses and most businesses are in the business to do business and they have policies to protect their ability to do business, and if your business is dependent on weather you have policies that institute 'rainchecks'. Perhaps the only raincheck you'll ever get that actually has something to do with the rain.

Finally, it sounds like you were trying to relive your first tandem all over again, and no matter how it worked out, that just wasn't going to happen. All the witty jumpmaster banter in the world wasn't going to cut it. Everything could have worked out perfectly and it still wouldn't have been enough. You can't recreate something like that, that's where the term 'once in a lifetime comes from.' It is also why god created AFF, IAD, and an A license. I'm assuming you're not in a tandem progression course, so feel fortunate that you got to pull the rip chord. I know tandem instructors that don't even give the student the option, because too many students pull high, drop the rip chord, etc...

Tandem jumps are an awsome introduction to skydiving, but unless they are part of a tandem progression, they are more or less a really exciting ride. If you'd signed up for AFF you could have gotten the ground school done during the weather hold, or gotten an introduction to packing while working towards your A liscense. If you want to become a skydiver learn to skydive, don't try and recreate the uncreatable. Create some new 'once in a lifetimes.'

'Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.' -Oscar Wilde

[kelpdiver 2]

weather can be a drag, esp if you live 2 hours from the DZ. My first three trips for AFF had me winded out (still did the FJC), one jump (could have done more, but was enough), and then clouded out. And this was summer in California.

and the instructors hate it just as much as you do. They're all independent contractors and making money by the jump.

I don't like the way many DZs do rainchecks. A moderate deposit over the phone is fine, but you walk in the door, they give you paperwork and bill your credit card, then mention clouds or rain or wind, and you get to wait and see, and eventually get a raincheck. As a sport jumper, I don't need to pay anything until I manifest, and if conditions worsen, I either don't have it charged, or I get my jump ticket back.

[AggieDave 6]

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I don't need to pay anything until I manifest, and if conditions worsen, I either don't have it charged, or I get my jump ticket back.

Its not like that at every DZ, some DZs require money on account before you can manifest and they don't have jump tickets, its all done on the system. Although they will many times give you cash back off your account if you need to or will mail you a check, it depends on the DZ.


As for the 2nd tandem not being as fun and not getting the instructor you requested...well, that's life, really. You can never ever do your first jump again, ever. As for only getting to pull, were you offered the chance to do a catagory A tandem? Did you say you "wanted to do spins and have a lot of fun" instead? I've had quite a few students come up to the DZ and say "I want to pull on this one" in which I say "great, let me get my training aids and we'll be trained for a Cat A tandem shortly." Only to get 1/2 way through my training to have the student say "but can we still do spirals and just play around in freefall too?" Nope, you're doing an introductory tandem or you're doing a Catagory A/B tandem. Combining the two does nothing to train the student and only wastes the TI's time.

As for requesting the same instructor, as it falls its just not possible sometimes. Especially on busy days that were backed up due to weather. I've had a lot of students come back to the DZ and request me but due to time and student load (that were scheduled before the requesting student) it was impossible to get their jump done before sunset and still jump with me. That's just how it happens sometimes.

If the original poster can't understand the realities of skydiving and weather, then maybe skydiving really isn't for them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't need to pay anything until I manifest, and if conditions worsen, I either don't have it charged, or I get my jump ticket back.

Its not like that at every DZ, some DZs require money on account before you can manifest and they don't have jump tickets, its all done on the system. Although they will many times give you cash back off your account if you need to or will mail you a check, it depends on the DZ.

Sure. Getting the jump ticket back is nearly the equilivent of the account system.

Hollister will either deal in tickets, or just hold a credit card and run a tab for you to settle up when you leave. That approach works nicely. I'm not sure what they do for tandems, however. Might be on the rainchecks.

[Scrumpot 1]

So, let me break this down/get all this straight:

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we showed up at 9:30 am and the weather wasn't cooperating.

As others have already said, it happens all the time ...get used to it! Certainly nothing you BLAME the DZ for, can you? Would you prefer rather that they took you up in conditions that were UNSAFE? However, because you drove 2+ hours and now had to sit & wait, you set yourself up to be cheesed-off. Who's (attitude) problem is that? Do you think that the DZ enjoys any more or less than you NOT jumping/actively operating/accomodating you? After all, for many of them, this is their livelihoods! ...I say GOOD ON THEM for having the fortitude and the RESTRAINT to NOT taking you up in either marginal or questionable conditions (clouds? ...wind??). There are dropzones out there actually that WILL. Maybe you would be more happy there? ...Think about it though. In real terms and actuality, I think NOT.

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Out of us 4, 2 of us requested our original tantem masters. We were told that they would do what the could, but couldn't promise anything. (No names were noted anywhere when we asked and neither of our requests were granted.)

They gave you full disclosure here. At the time of request, I'm sure they probably also meant it ...to DO THE BEST THEY COULD there too. However, remember now, you have just waited the entire day, I'm sure that you were (probably) not the ONLY students (and/or tandems) there ...and when things did finally "break", it probably did become a mad scramble to accomodate as much as they could. They would not have necessarily noted any names at the time of request for only 2 of you, because in ideal conditions they would not have needed to. Come time closer to when you would jump, ...again if conditions (BEYOND THEIR CONTROL) were better, I'm sure they then would have asked, and just as they said ...even then NO PROMISES, but I'm sure they would have tried to accomodate you!

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When they asked for a refund they were promptly told that wasn't possible, they could only issue a raincheck.

That's pretty standard. But depending on how you made your booking/paid your deposit(s), that probably should have been disclosed/known by you at that time too. ...Was it?

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When they finally cooperated (at about 5 o'clock) our group was told that we probably wouldn't make it before they quit jumping for the evening so we should take our rainchecks. We all agreed that we had stuck it out all day and would be there until the plane quit flying. With 9 of our group remaining they still split us up onto 3 different jumps and told 1 of our group that he wouldn't be able to jump. (They had many different reasons, but he did get to jump the sunset load and loved it.)

Again, it sounds like you ALL (including the DZ itself ...who was picking on just YOU?) were subject to some less than ideal conditions, granted. But also it seems as if the DZ did do its best to get you all accomodated! I know it's natural to want to "do your entire group together" on the same load, and get exactly the same instructors some of you had before, etc. etc. ...but sometimes those requests just can not be accomodated, and those expectations on your part are just not well ...to be blunt REASONABLE.

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On to my jump. I jumped with a new tantem master. I did tell him that I had a previous tantem jump and was considering taking the AFF course. So with my enthusiasm I was allowed to deploy the chute and NOTHING else on the entire jump.

Did you have sufficient pre-jump (orientation) time to actually plan any "learning objectives" with your TM? Did you set this up with the DZ in advance as anything more than just "another tandem ride"? I suspect here that instead, NO ...Because YOU all decided you were going to hang out to the last possible even dire possibility of even getting your jump in on THAT DAY, that the very 1st time and only time this even came up/was mentioned was probably AS you were meeting your TM/gearing up/meeting the plane. Again, please ...I don't mean to sound so uncaring ...I too wish your experience REGARDLESS OF REASONS/reasoning was a much more pleasant and enjoyable one, but I do just want to also try to get you to also THINK/consider the other positions on this too... and that is, under these CONDITIONS maybe there just wasn't sufficient time (if you were going to/JUST HAD TO get your jump in TODAY) to go over a body floght/body position, then canopy opening and control/flight sequence with you SAFELY? Did you consider that? After all, they did offer you the rainchecks too as an option. It is YOU who held out, against what it seems to be both advise (and odds) instead for THIS option.

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With 9 of our group remaining they still split us up onto 3 different jumps and told 1 of our group that he wouldn't be able to jump. (They had many different reasons, but he did get to jump the sunset load and loved it.)

Sounds to me here (again) like they actually did a pretty darn GOOD job, under clearly not the best of conditions, overcoming both weather obstacles and logistics adversities to actually accomdodate you all ...and you still are "complaining"!

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Overall this experience sucked. I was tired, bored and ended up scared more this time than the time before.

YOU are the one that "stuck it out" even though you were given options. Of course you were tired. Bored though? Who's fault was that? Seriously.

Glad you at least feel better now that you've gotten your rant off your chest. Maybe though, (just MAYBE) some of YOUR expectations, and how you set YOURSELF up here though, were just a tad bit unreasonable (and IMPOSSIBLE to be fulfilled in the 1st place by ANY DZ under the conditions/circumstances) too?

All the above being said (and most of it just for "effect" trust me there ) the DZ and the DZO still should CARE about your experience/satisfaction. If you give them a call and REASONABLY discuss this with them, you should at least get an empathetic and considerate response. If you don't, then maybe you do just need to take your business to another dropzone that will ALSO give you that much too. Have you given them that opportunity, or is your position/feelings on the matter intractable?

Hey, and in all seriousness, ...I do hope that my (albeit "hard line" or "tough love") post does actually for you too, in some way HELP!

Blues Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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As a sport jumper, I don't need to pay anything until I manifest, and if conditions worsen, I either don't have it charged, or I get my jump ticket back.

I don't know where you jump, but one thing is clear with this statement/post, ...and that is THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T GET AROUND!

I'd say that the preponderance of Sport Jumper/Dropzone payment arrangement systems calls for some form of payment/cash UP FRONT or on account before you jump. ...And get easy "refunds" for what you don't use? What sort of fantasy/la-la land do you live in??

I've got jump tickets, BOUGHT, UNUSED, yet FULLY PAID FOR I assure you (and non-refunded) from SEVERAL dropzones across the country, in-hand to this day.

You need to get out (and around) a bit more, methinks there Kelp.

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[dzjohn 0]

half the fun is just hanging out with good people and having a blast so live it up and wait for the next clear day
aff is cool and every jump is different to the last so just take it as a experience.

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[mattjw916 2]

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I've got jump tickets, BOUGHT, UNUSED, yet FULLY PAID FOR I assure you (and non-refunded) from SEVERAL dropzones across the country, in-hand to this day.

that makes two of us...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[headoverheels 291]

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As a sport jumper, I don't need to pay anything until I manifest, and if conditions worsen, I either don't have it charged, or I get my jump ticket back.

I don't know where you jump, but one thing is clear with this statement/post, ...and that is THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T GET AROUND!

I'd say that the preponderance of Sport Jumper/Dropzone payment arrangement systems calls for some form of payment/cash UP FRONT or on account before you jump. ...And get easy "refunds" for what you don't use? What sort of fantasy/la-la land do you live in??

I've got jump tickets, BOUGHT, UNUSED, yet FULLY PAID FOR I assure you (and non-refunded) from SEVERAL dropzones across the country, in-hand to this day.

You need to get out (and around) a bit more, methinks there Kelp.

Blues,
-Grant

Kelpdiver jumps around the bay area, as do I. If the plane doesn't go for some reason, or if I decide not to make a load, I have either gotten my ticket back, or not had my account charged, whichever applied at the DZ in question. True for Monterey, Byron, Lodi, Davis. I've never snivelled on a jump at Hollister, but expect the same there. I've seen out of towners get refunds, not just their tickets back, when aircraft or weather problems occurred. I have no idea what the other DZ's do, but Lodi doesn't take deposits for tandems. They'd probably like to know ahead if a group of more than 10 are coming out, but otherwise they just say come on.

I even got ticket refunds from the last DZO of Pope Valley, after they went out of business.

[secondskin 0]

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Maybe though, (just MAYBE) some of YOUR expectations, and how you set YOURSELF up here though, were just a tad bit unreasonable (and IMPOSSIBLE to be fulfilled in the 1st place by ANY DZ under the conditions/circumstances) too?

That is a very nice way of putting - what I call - 'high maintenance'. This person will not make it in this sport with their attitude.

[pilotdave 0]

Most dropzones will give your money back if you kick and scream enough... especially for tandems. I tend to leave money on my account though in case I ever come back... it's a nice surprise.

Course some dropzones, like a certain one in DE, are a little more stingy when it comes to refunds.
Dave

[kelpdiver 2]

Gee, what crawled up your butt today? Which part of 'got my jump ticket back' did you translate into cash refund? The OP must have really got you worked up!

And for the record, I've been to all 6 of the surrounding DZs to SF (excluding the inappropriately named Skydive SF) and Elsinore and Perris down south. I have jump tickets or cash on account at Elsinore, Monterey, Hollister, and Skydance.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

I think you should just stay home and watch TV.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[cocheese 0]

My 3rd tandem sucked. I had 600 jumps and was scared shitless. (it was for a tandem master in training)
You'd have to pay me( a lot) to go for a tandem ride, but it IS what hooked me after several static line jumps.
You might be better off golfing or going to an amusement park.... on a nice day.

[diablopilot 2]

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I think you should just stay home and watch TV.

Bingo.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skinnyshrek 0]

ive done 4 tandem rides NO MORE

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[slug 1]

Hi 1775

Every DZ is a indendent operation and set their own rules. As a consumer you have a choice: you can accept a DZ's rules before you do business with them or find another DZ that meets your requirements.
FWIW there's a DZ locater on this websight's home page just type in your zip code and you'll see a map with the closest DZ's to your home.

If you want to continue jumping why drive 2 hr's to a DZ that your not happy with. Visit the DZ's that are local to your area, ask questions, check out the vibes and find a place that meets your requirements.
Tandems and AFF students are the cash cows of DZ's your the customer so if your not satisfied with the service your getting take your business somewhere else.

At some DZ's "Tandem reservations" aren't required.
You found out the hard way that paying in advance can have it's disadvantages. I suggest you become a informed consumer so you can get your money's worth. "First time shame on them< second time shame on you".

R.I.P.