My second tantem sucked!

[char1775 0]

Wow I didn't expect everyone to bitch at me for my post.
To clear things up, I did enjoy the day at the DZ. It was fun hanging out with everyone (we did have a group of 11 with us). I just thought that someone would have tried to honor our requests since that is one of the questions that we asked when we made the appointment and we were assured that everything possible would be done. The thing that got me was that the names that we quoted were never even noted.
To whoever asked; no I haven't been around to many DZ's I live 2 hours away from the closest one and I have a job that requires me to work 12 hour night shifts (and lots of weekends). It isn't like I can just get up on Saturday morning and decide to go hang out.
I was just wondering if this was what to expect at other DZs, if so skydiving isn't for me. I will find something to do with my time and money that someone will atleast try to make an effort to make me comfortable and accept me into their "group".

I guarantee that if you knew the DZ most of you would change your tune and tell me that none of your DZs were anything like this one.

[Antidote 0]

What's to be expected is weather holds and then frantic activity once the weather clears.

At our club we make sure the tandem passenger knows this. If he or she is informed about it and still elects to be an arsehole about waiting time, we offer the money back.

RE: honouring requests - I think it's done to the extent possible at most DZs. For sure, there'll be days when it's not possible or when the staff is just overloaded with things that need to be done. A request for a certain tandemmaster might rank low on the priority scale in such circumstances. Not jotting down the requests seems a bit odd to me as it's not something that requires many resources. Can understand how it can happen in a stressed environment though. I don't know if you have any experience working directly with customers. If you do, you'll know what I'm talking about.

On a sidenote - if you're not prepared to spend somewhat of a good deal of time on the sport, it might not be for you. Currency is important for your safety and if you cannot maintain it, you'll not get the full enjoyment from the sport (for instance, you'll be more apprehensive) and you put yourself and others at additional risk. Skydiving is unlike some hobbies in this respect.

It's also an activity where whatever you do matters a great deal. Don't expect open invitations to join any given sub group at a DZ. While most are openminded and forthcoming towards newbies, a lot of us see 100 students a year, only to see 5-6 of them continue in the sport. We learn in a short time that we'd be wasting our breath 95 outta a 100 times, so I for one take a more passive role. Take charge there and I think you'll find the social aspect of the sport extremely satisfying.

[skydog 2]

From a TI's point of view regarding requests for specific instructors.

Here we work a rota system that tries to ensure each Tandem Instructor does the same number of jumps. If that fits in with the students requests then fine, but otherwise I am sorry. (otherwise I would be doing all the tandems at our DZ)

As for the weather.......welcome to skydiving....

Bryn

Journey not destination.....

[char1775 0]

The instructor that I requested was on the same jump as I was with another person out of our group.

[tkhayes 145]

I think any DZ that takes your money, does not give the service you paid for and then decides for itself that you do not get a refund should probably be avoided. Offer a raincheck, sure, but force you to take one?

We have full refund policies in place, well explained and posted. There are exceptions of course; discounted bulk tickets, tandems that were sold at special prices and group deposits that offer deals to the group and so on.

I fail to understand in this day and age why customer service can be so poor in what is basically a service industry.

On a bad weather day, the customer does nto deserve to be forced to spend any money. And the DZ does not deserve to earn any money either. If that sucks for them, then I am sorry about that, but stop taking your bad luck out on your customers.....

TK

[lisamariewillbe 1]

it was a monday, at DZ.com I have noticed lots of bitching on monday and by friday everyone is happy again because it is close to the weekend.

You had a bad experience...THAT SUCKS....you like the sky.....THATS GOOD, do not let your one bad experience ruin what could be a lifetime of fulfillment...

Sign up for AFF , make at least one jump a month, keep everyone updated...be safe...have fun...be safe

Lisamarie

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[minobu 0]

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience man. I went on my 2nd tandem as well this past weekend. I would have to agree with some of the others that said don't let one bad day ruin it for you. It does seem like this sport is gonna take alot of time though :) After my jump in the morning I hung around and learned to pack chutes all day which was great maybe that would relieve some of the boredom on those inevitable rainy days

Good luck man hope it goes better the next time

Edited to add to me, granted I only have 2 jumps skydiving seems to be about alot more than just jumping out of planes the vibe I get is one of companionship .

Only skydivers know why the birds sing!

Jim

[dragon2 0]

Quote

The instructor that I requested was on the same jump as I was with another person out of our group.

There may be a reason for that, as some tandemmasters have a preferance for certain students (tall/short, heavy/lightweight, out-of-shape, ...) or take certain types because they can and some other TM might not, or because it is the best type for the TM because he's just starting out or something... Ie at our DZ a TM will not take a child or very small person up before he has got a lot of experience, they are also not allowed to take a video person up with them the first 25 (I think)tandem jumps, a short TM will probably not get a very tall passenger, an experienced TM will take any elderly, overweight and/or out-of-shape students, stuff like that.

Not saying something like that happened here, but tandemmaster-passenger pairings are not always random.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[lisamariewillbe 1]

On my first tandem , I was the least desirable person in my group, im 6' and although thin, we were in a cessna 182 with a cameraman and a sport jumper. very hard to manuver to the dorr, I wasnt insulted. It sucked trying to get to that door...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I just thought that someone would have tried to honor our requests since that is one of the questions that we asked when we made the appointment and we were assured that everything possible would be done.

Have you not been reading the replies from the folks that actually work in the industry?

Go back and re-read my reply, I'm a full time TI for a DZ in TX and I gave you a no nonsense answer.

As for not writing down the person you asked for, I know that at my DZ its noted in the computer and they would know who you jumped with last time when they pull up your account.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

The instructor that I requested was on the same jump as I was with another person out of our group.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it is HE (she) who did not "want" YOU?

Hmmmm....

You're too "easy".

In all seriousness though, based upon everything you've said, including in your follow-ups... maybe this sport quite simply is just NOT for you. It's not for everybody, ...and that's "okay".

Good luck and best of wishes to you though, in whatever you choose pursue.

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Tonto 1]

My 753rd Tandem sucked too - so I quit doing Tandem.
Now I don't have people I'll never see again bitching at me
that the weather sucks and that the sun goes down.

I'm so glad I'm done with Tandem. It would be great,
but so many of the passengers suck!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[LawnDart21 0]

Quote

In all seriousness though, based upon everything you've said, including in your follow-ups... maybe this sport quite simply is just NOT for you.

Okay, so instead of trying to change the person's perceptions for the better and try to keep them in the sport to foster growth, we should just encourage anyone that doesn't grasp the status quo within a handful of thread posts, to just leave the sport?

Way to promote the sport.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[packerboy 3]

Deposits are one thing, but I think the DZ should wait untill weather holds are off to take full payment, and give rainchecks for the deposits. If the student has no chance of ever coming back, such as an international tourist, it would be just plain mean to keep their money.

We should have it all figured out now that mean people suck and should be avoided when at all possible. As a matter of fact they should wear special T-shirts that say "I'm an ass, I just want your money, and I give not 2 shits about how you come out this situation"

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[beezyshaw 0]

Quote

Okay, so instead of trying to change the person's perceptions for the better and try to keep them in the sport to foster growth, we should just encourage anyone that doesn't grasp the status quo within a handful of thread posts, to just leave the sport?

Way to promote the sport.

I agree with this. It is crucial that we treat our customers, all of them, with respect and with every effort possible to accommodate them. This stuff about "go get a bowling ball" and the like is business suicide. Here's a familiar cliche that comes to mind...
Do you think that your customers are here because of you, or do you think that you're here because of them?

Really, people, think about what's more important here.

[Tonto 1]

What you say may be true if you run a dropzone as a business.

If you're a Tandem instructor working at a DZ, and have no control over the policies at that DZ, but need to deal with passengers who put you at risk and bitch at you, then the "bowling ball" speech can be changed to the "Go and do AFF/Video/Coaching/BMI if you're not happy" and can be given to the Tandem Instructor either by the business that employs him, or he can reach that conclusion himself.

What your post neglects to mention is that EVERY Tandem Instructor did a 1st jump course once, and moved their way up the ranks. We are ALL customers of the system. I simply struggle with the high volume, low retention aspect of Static line and Tandem operation.
I like to put my effort into people who have some intention of remaining in the sport.

Tandem is not part of any progression in South Africa.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Thanatos340 1]

Sounds like you went to a Tandem Mill DZ.

You should go to a Smaller DZ and you will probably be happier. At large very Busy DZ`s they really don’t have time to give each student personal treatment.

Also the weather hold is something no-one has control over and no-one can accurately predict how long it will last.

Also don’t believe that just because That DZ told you there were no other Dropzones closer to you, that doesn’t mean its true.

There is One Operation that is well known for Lying to their customers about the existence of other Dropzones.

The No-Refunds Policy also sounds like an Skyride operation. Many Dropzones will gladly refund your money if you get weathered out. The only time you would loose your money is if you went up and the plane and decided not to Jump. In fact both of the Dropzone I goto dont even collect any money untill after your jump but they are small DZ`s that do not have more than 10 or 15 tandems a day usually. A smaller DZ will be a much more personal experience than a Tandem Mill generally.

What Dropzone was this and where do you live?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I was wondering also if it was a skyride,

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[AndyMan 7]

One point I believe in completely is simple:

Students have the right to suck. They have the right to try to kill you, and come back and want to do it again. They have a right to learn, and do every stupid dangerous thing in the process. They have a right to an instructor who will come back time after time and keep offering to teach.

That's what an instructor does.

I've heard the "bowling ball" speach 3 times, and in each of those cases the instructor was swapped out, the student made it through the program and is now an active jumper.

"Bowling ball" speeches reflect very poorly on instructors, IMHO.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mdrejhon 8]

Quote

As for the weather.......welcome to skydiving....

Lesson learned about that one. I went every weekend for the last 4 weeks, regardless of weather forecast. On a weekend where there was rain forecast for both days, I still jumped 8 times! I camped out there, so I spent 8 days in 4 weeks at the dropzone to increment my 3 jumps all the way to 23 jumps. I wasn't attempting to hurry and jump on every load but if I did, I'd probably be at slightly over 30 jumps now. However, there were those wind holds as a student...

Although on a weekend that had more sun forecasts, I jumped only 6 times (and all in one day) because of rainclouds!

[mdrejhon 8]

char1775,

Now that I'm done with the 8-jump progressive freefall training (A Canadian variant of AFF), I can jump solo for just a $15 hop-n-pop (plus $20 gear rental, until I rent a rig), or $25-$30 from a 5-digit altitude. That's a hell of a lot cheaper than a tandem and they're slightly less nervous of windholds about me now... (just slightly less, mind you, at least until I am ready for a faster canopy)

Go for AFF. You can just do a jump once in a while, and if you just fail or spend too long between levels, just repeat or revert the AFF levels instead of tandem. The AFF type programs are more fun than tandems, even if you start over again at AFF1.

You can always even be a permanent "AFF Level 1" student if you wish, and you wouldn't need to put up with the "tandem mill" stuff that other people call them. (But mind you, my first jump was GREAT. I had an amazing TI back then. Shame he moved to Nova Scotia).

Many places need you to do a freefall program in one month, but some place let you do them one at a time. You can always just do AFF 1 as a trial -- then if you like it -- jump AFF 2 right away -- If you like it, finish the program (preferably within the same month -- safest). You may be able to find a place that allows you to pay only for AFF 1 as a "trial" before commiting to pay for the whole program.

(1) Paying for one early AFF level is not much more expensive than a tandem (it actually becomes cheaper during the higher AFF levels!)
(2) Dropzones are more likely to give you a great time since they want to make you happy enough to pay for AFF2 and above
(3) People are more likely to become friends with potential regulars. Paying for AFF 1 means you're considering becoming a regular.
(4) You're less likely to run into a boring tandem instructor. (Many are GREAT! But as you had a bad experience...)

[lisamariewillbe 1]

In 1997 23,317 bowlers were injured while bowling... jeesh see stop telling newbies that they should take up bowling...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lisamariewillbe 1]

and dont tell him to be a spectator either, approx 19,443 were injured in 1997

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lopullterri 0]

Just my opinion, but anyone who comes back for a second tandem is expressing a definate interest in continuing the sport and should have been instructed and allowed to do more than char1775 says they were allowed to do. They were certainly there long enough for the extra instruction. Retaining the interest of the student/customer is the way to build the sport AND make money. I also think that the request for the same TI should have been granted. He was on the load and even if it wasn't his turn in the rotation, he made an impression, for whatever reason, and would have deserved the tandem anyway.
As far as everything else...no a refund isn't in order. If the day is a bust, rainchecks are the only way to insure that you come back. They have still spent time and money training you. Welcome to the world of skydiving. Sometimes the weather stinks. I hope you find a student DZ that wishes to keep you in the sport. For the record, 2 hours away isn't so bad, at times I drive over 4 hours to jump.

~"I am not afraid. I was born to do this"~

[funks 1]

Quote

I was wondering also if it was a skyride,

why does skyride have anything to do with this? The guy just ended up with an unfriendly tandem master...happens all the time.