husky 0 #1 May 29, 2005 This post is under a fake name to avoid pointing fingers at dropzones or people, that is not the intent. This is not a troll, but an honest request. I witnessed a jumper scratch himself from a load at the door of the plane due to clouds and the anticipated altitude minimum was lower than he felt comfortable with. The pilot gave a wide range of possible altitudes depending on where the cloudcover was, but it is the lowest possible that really matters. (Manifest quoted a higher cloudcover than the pilot) When he went back to the hangar, three jumpers of varying experience gave him a hard time about it, questioning his decision. All I ask is to please, whether you have 2 jumps or 2000++ remember that it takes far more balls to be at the door of the plane and say 'I'm not ready for this, let someone else take my spot' than it does to get on the plane and follow the crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 May 29, 2005 QuoteWhen he went back to the hangar, three jumpers of varying experience gave him a hard time about it, questioning his decision. Well, it sucks that folks were ragging on you due to your decision; however, you're right, if you're not comfortable with a situation then don't jump. Be it pure safety, BSR or FAR violations or whatever. Unfortunately attitudes such as the ones you encountered are in this sport (and the world) and there's not much that can be done to adjust them. In the case of gross safety violations and/or BSR/FAR violations it would be worth while to talk to the S&TA about it. Although I would approach it from a "what can be done to help this situation be right" instead of "look what they did" like a mad 6 year old on a playground.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husky 0 #3 May 29, 2005 I didn't mean to give the wrong impression.. I was on the next load, not this one. Just saw what the other guys were saying. The jumper shrugged it off, bothered me more than him. I also didn't mean to imply that I was angry about it, just concerned. Isn't a post here one way to address the problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #4 May 29, 2005 QuoteI also didn't mean to imply that I was angry about it, just concerned. Isn't a post here one way to address the problem? Yes, another way would have been to walk up to that jumper, in front of the others who ridiculed, and say that was one of the smartest things you had seen that day, etc. Let him/her and others know that it is ok to make decisions like that. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husky 0 #5 May 29, 2005 QuoteYes, another way would have been to walk up to that jumper, in front of the others who ridiculed, and say that was one of the smartest things you had seen that day, etc. Let him/her and others know that it is ok to make decisions like that. Good point. I did tell the jumper that later, but you are right. I should have said it in front of others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 May 29, 2005 QuoteI should have said it in front of others. Peer pressure can be used in a postive way, especially combating those sorts of negative attitudes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #7 May 29, 2005 I am a very safety conscious jumper, but that doesn't stop me from pretending to call a friend a pussy for similar behavior. It is really a good-natured affirmation of sound thinking. I guess that sometimes the sarcasm might be interpreted as a real criticism of safe-minded behavior. I hope that is what you heard, but it might not have been. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #8 May 29, 2005 I've had discussions about this sort of thing... and I had a disussion yesterday with an older jumper as we were walking to the plane.. he suggested that I should never be afraid to say I'm not willing to get out... and later in the day when one of the loads I was on landed in the plane while it was pooring down rain... everyone was very glad they decided not to get out. the people giving the jumper grief are in the wrong here...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #9 May 30, 2005 what was the minimum anticipated altitude? . But yeah, kudos to him. I've nearly backed out on a load because I didn't feel comfortable about the pilot. Then someone else said they weren't going up and then the pilot was changed. I know that it's difficult.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark135 0 #10 May 30, 2005 Oh c'mon. I will always call an exp. jumper (that knows me well) a pussy for scratching on a load because of conditions. It rarely takes more than 10 sec. before it dawns on them that I am not on a load either. lighten up man, It's supposed to be fun._______________ "It seemed like a good idea at the time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husky 0 #12 May 30, 2005 Quotewhat was the minimum anticipated altitude? 2500 feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husky 0 #13 May 30, 2005 QuoteI will always call an exp. jumper (that knows me well) a pussy for scratching on a load because of conditions. I am not certain how many jumps the jumper had, but it was well under 100. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 May 30, 2005 [IMHO] 2.5K @100 jumps = good decision on his/her part Anyone shouting pussy is either a very good mate (you often take the piss out of mates) or a dick-head... Macho bollocks is not needed in this sport ... safety and common sense is. . P.S For what its worth... I'd've walked too. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #15 May 31, 2005 It's part of the training at my DZ to do a hop n pop from 2500ft when you get your first rig. edit: That said, if the jumper wasn't comfortable, there's no way they should've been barracked for standing down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #16 May 31, 2005 QuoteIt's part of the training at my DZ to do a hop n pop from 2500ft when you get your first rig. Can you give an indication of, typically, at what kind of jumps #s that would be?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #17 May 31, 2005 My teammate cut away from spinning line twist. We all gave her shit. ...However...on my video...I'm clearly screaming "chop it". It's all good. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsisters 0 #18 May 31, 2005 " I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there, than up there wishing I was down here."*********************************** Those Who Dance are Considered Insane........... .........By Those Who Cannot Hear the Music Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #19 May 31, 2005 Years ago, a friend of mine went up to Tullahoma, TN to jump the Starvin' Marvin boogie. There were some big ways out of the Casa. This is the story he related to me. He was one of the floaters on the ramp on a 30 way. When the light turned green, he looked out... nothing but farmland, no airport. He yelled at the dive organizer, "I'm not jumping! Look!" Dive organizer takes a look, eyes get big, he goes "WTF?" Then he lays down on the ramp, has someone hold his legs while he got a look into the direction the plane was going, and saw the airport some 2 or 3 miles ahead. During all this time, some skygods or other arrogant pricks near the front of the plane were yelling "GO! GO!" But of course the Dive organizer smartly waited until the right moment, and the load exited over the airport. The next year or so, I was there for the Dive Rite world record star attempts as a front float on a trailing plane. First plane formation load exits 2 miles off and nobody makes it back. I sure wish my friend had been a floater on the lead plane on that load!"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #20 May 31, 2005 QuoteIt's part of the training at my DZ to do a hop n pop from 2500ft when you get your first rig. edit: That said, if the jumper wasn't comfortable, there's no way they should've been barracked for standing down. Two weeks ago I overheard an instructor @ Perris giving someone an ass chewing for doing a somersault out of a 3000' H&P. Then, when he found out the guy only had an A license (albeit with 150 jumps), he gave him more shit for even doing a 3000' H&P in the 1st place. A's and B's are supposed to be in the saddle by 3K. Like I said, this is just what I observed.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hemphog 0 #21 May 31, 2005 QuoteThen, when he found out the guy only had an A license (albeit with 150 jumps), he gave him more shit for even doing a 3000' H&P in the 1st place. A's and B's are supposed to be in the saddle by 3K. That's USPA reg's? Up north we just have to pitch the PC by 2500' if Solo (Canadian solo ~= USPA A) or 2200' if A (~= USPA B). Hell, the first time I pitched my own PC (1st freefall, 5th jump) I was put out of our Cessna at 3000'.. and had a hard pull! My hat goes off to the jumper for not bailin if they weren't feelin it. If it don't feel right, walk away... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #22 May 31, 2005 Quote That's USPA reg's? Up north we just have to pitch the PC by 2500' if Solo (Canadian solo ~= USPA A) or 2200' if A (~= USPA B). Hell, the first time I pitched my own PC (1st freefall, 5th jump) I was put out of our Cessna at 3000'.. and had a hard pull! Like I said, this was just a conversation I witnessed between an instructor and an A licensed jumper...but he specifically kept repeating that "A" jumpers should be "in the saddle" by 3K. And I think he said B as well.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #23 May 31, 2005 I'm ready to do 3500' hop-n-pops (same as my solo graduating jump) and while I think my dropzone is ready to get me a little lower, I'll be doing a few more of that level first... Not a SL trainee here. I'm an AFF-type wuss on solo status now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hemphog 0 #24 May 31, 2005 I wasn't sending any bad vibes your way bro, it just makes more sense to me now. When I was jumping in Switzerland and dumped (threw PC) at 2700' they were all "dude, don't suck it down so low!"... and I was just pulling at my usual height. I didn't know the same was with the US too. Guess CSPA is a little slacker on the alti's maybe? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 May 31, 2005 Quote...but he specifically kept repeating that "A" jumpers should be "in the saddle" by 3K. Although that's a good rule of thumb, the BSR states the following (bolding is mine): QuoteMinimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are: 1. Tandem jumps--4,500 feet AGL 2. All students and A-license holders--3,000 feet AGL 3. B-license holders--2,500 feet AGL 4. C- and D-license holders--2,000 feet AGL What that means is that you have to have an open container by 3k, not in the saddle. Many newer canopies take 500-600ft to open (some take longer as well), so that would put deployment altitude up around 4k for A license jumpers. Nothing wrong with that, except that's not how the BSR is worded. HydroGuy, if you haven't yet, you really need a copy of the SIM, read it and get to know it. You don't have to buy it (although I prefer the bought and bound version for ease of use) you can get it from USPA's website. (http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
