Zep 0 #1 June 20, 2005 Somebodys answer in another thread got me thinking, "Why are some people more prone to mal's than others." I am one of the trashiest packers around,All I do is a line check, give it a couple of shakes stuff the nose in the center bring the tail round, roll it up tight an S it straight into the bag I always double bite the stows changing any bands that look suspect. I've had twists, snivells an I've been slammed, I've had cutaways from CRW but I've never had a mal I can't help but wonder why. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 June 20, 2005 some of it is just statistics. If you get ten friends to each toss a coin 10 times, they won't all have 5 heads and 5 tails. Some of it is packing technique. If we were really convinced that packing technique didn't make ANY difference wouldn't we just cram reserves in the bag? Suppose being a crappy packer just doubles the chances of a malfunction. This still wouldn't be noticed by most people, and is still subject to some coin-toss statistics. Some of it is gear maintenance. Some of it is paying attention. I have noticed in 30+ years of skydiving that some people don't pay enough attention, and they are more likely (in my opinion) to have a problem. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #3 June 20, 2005 QuoteI am one of the trashiest packers around,All I do is a line check, give it a couple of shakes stuff the nose in the center bring the tail round, roll it up tight an S it straight into the bag I always double bite the stows changing any bands that look suspect. Good god you would think that someone with 3000+ jumps would have figured this out by now. Good/bad body position come deployment time is the biggest influencing factor on someone's opening. BASE jumpers are taught this from an early age, why do so many skydivers ignore this? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #4 June 20, 2005 In my limited experience, I have seen a few that are packing errors (did not stow one brake or stowed improperly). I hava also seen a few from gear issues such as wornout velco on the toggles. The other ones have been twisting the wrong way one line twist. I personally never have had a mal Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #5 June 20, 2005 Some of it is also gear choice. Radical ellipticals like to spin up (some are famous for it), and if they do, then you're gonna be pretty lucky not to have it end in a spinning mal. I know this comes down eventually to body position a lot of the time, but the gear is definitely a factor, or at least so I gather from talking to the handkerchief pilots...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #6 June 20, 2005 Well I can't speak for such a general quesiton but as far as my personal knowledge goes I would say COMPLACENCY is a great factor in mal. See what I mean??My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #7 June 20, 2005 BINGO, I think we have a winner, I so totally agree. My last comment was in the style of irony. I said I was a trashy packer, this is true, but I know from experience where my lines are. and exactly how the canopy fall into shape. I think some mal's are caused at pull time, people get nervous rush the wave off an pull to energetically, thus not having a good body postion I prefer to to take it down a few hundred feet if I'm not in a good postion, Some mals are indeed caused by complacency, the lazy pull, which can cause pilotchute hesitation or eaisly put the bridle line round your arm. A worn out elastic on the pilotchute pouch an you've got a horseshoe an so the list goes on. I'll answer my own question, I haven't had a mal because at pull time I'm stable an relaxed and my container although old is well maintained. and by curtesy of the staff at Netheravon so many years ago, I took the time to learn exactly how a parachute works. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #8 June 20, 2005 I also think there is another factor that nobody has mentioned. Some people are more likely to spend time trying to fix a problem than others. Some people I have spoken to will fight with line twists for a long time trying to kick out while others would rather not waste the time and altitude trying. I have lost friends over the years that died because they spent longer than they should have trying to fix something. That being said I have probably cut away a main that I may have been able to salvage once or twice. I personally would rather cut away if I have the slightest doubt. I would rather cut away something that I may have been able to save, than realize at 500 feet that I couldn't fix the problem. -OKTime flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #9 June 20, 2005 Guess some of us are just unlucky I've had one stuck toggle, one line over I was able to clear, and one line over that ended in a reserve ride.. already. I'm averaging one mal per 25 jumps FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #10 June 20, 2005 I'm not a believer in luck, good or bad but I'd be interested to hear about the stuck toggle, an why it stuck. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdrenalineBluez 0 #11 June 20, 2005 Ahemmmmmmmmm... I have seen you pack Nate... DOH!!!! "Uh oh! This is gonna hurt!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #12 June 20, 2005 well, the toggle was on AFF 3, so who knows... Like an idiot I landed it, should have chopped.. But seeing how it was AFF 3, I really dont know, I just know that I could not pull the toggle loose. I just recently started packing my own equipment (after my first line over) and I messed up the pack job on my last jump for another line over, .. It cleared, all good FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ultimateflite 0 #13 June 20, 2005 Well! Some people just done care!! Some people are just a Malfunction waiting to happen! I have over 4000+ jumps and never had a mal. I pay attention, respect the sport and learn from everyones mistakes. Stay alive and don't F*** up!All limitations are self imposed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #14 June 20, 2005 this is actually very simple...... other people have mal's..... so i dont have to.... g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #15 June 20, 2005 Well, Milko told me during my aff that there's only two types of skydivers - those that have had a mal, and those that are going to. Practice those drills my friend! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 19 #16 June 21, 2005 Hi Zep, You know something that the others don't!! You think you're a trashy packer but your rigs work. Lines sraight, shake it twice, stow the nose etc. you're good. These other jokers may talk the talk but their focus is out in space.SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #17 June 21, 2005 Hmmm Lets see.. 7 mals for me.. and most of them I would have to attribute to packing excellence 1 and 2 were definitely all me on my Papillion.... 3 was an Air Farce Rigger.... 4 was not me but that gad dayum sleeve dbag thingie my Parafoil came in.. after snivelling for 1800 ft I though it was about time for the blast handle to make my day 5 was all about me and the hot knife and making the container smaller and smaller till the bungie closing loop was so tight the bridle could not come out.. 6. was me the dumbass dumping out of a track on a speed dive... ouchies.. blew up the main big time.. 7. My packing again to make a load at the world cup.. and the slider hung up on the brake cascades and spun up real nice.... Packing excellence gets ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #18 June 21, 2005 I'm with okalb here. Me, I'm a cutter-awayer. Is that a word? I don't care if I could have gotten it out. I don't care if it was "just a premature toggle fire". If my canopy even feels like it's spinning more than what I consider normal (i jump ellipticals...sometimes they hunt), I'm probably going to chop it. I don't fight with shit. I don't EVER want to be that incident report that says "she finally cut away at 500 feet but the reserve didn't have time to deploy"...Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #19 June 21, 2005 Sometimes, people also just flat out exceed the limitations of their experience/ability and/or gear. my first two reserve rides were a combination of exceeding my physical abilities(bad visual acuity, I could only read an analong alti with ~+/- 1000 margin of error) while also exceeding the capability of my gear(an old mechanical AAD with a ~+/- 500 margin of error) -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #20 June 21, 2005 All of my mals have been related to packing some how. And I didn't pack themMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #21 June 21, 2005 Modern ellipticals sometimes spin up when you neglect to fly through the openings and start getting unruly with abnormal deployment attitudes. I don't know anyone who has mixed wing suits and ellipticals without at least one cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #22 June 21, 2005 >Good/bad body position come deployment time is the biggest >influencing factor on someone's opening. If this were true, reserves would malfunction all the time; they are generally deployed when the jumper is in a poor body position. While I think that body position does play a role in malfunctions, I think design of the canopy, maintenance of it and packing of it play a far larger role. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #23 June 21, 2005 Quote>Good/bad body position come deployment time is the biggest >influencing factor on someone's opening. If this were true, reserves would malfunction all the time If they were built with non-rectangular planforms. Body position while opening definately causes line twists and starts turns which become spins when they are not stopped. Line twists are recoverable when the canopy is not spinning. Rectangular canopies nearly always come out of those turns without pilot input so the combination of turns and line twists is a minor inconvienance. Some non-rectangular canopies will continue to spiral until control input is applied. This is a malfunction when control input is not applied because of line twists. Most new mains are not rectangular, and old squares like Sabres are becoming rare at some dropzones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #24 June 21, 2005 >If they were built with non-rectangular planforms. Hence my statement that design, maintenance and packing of the canopy is more important than body position when it comes to preventing malfunctions. >I don't know anyone who has mixed wing suits and ellipticals without >at least one cutaway. All my wingsuit jumps (~250) are on ellipticals, primarily Silhouettes and Pilots. Smallest was a Pilot 117, which works pretty well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #25 June 21, 2005 Quote I don't know anyone who has mixed wing suits and ellipticals without at least one cutaway. I dont want to hear that, I'm starting Birdman flight school this summer Matter suit When I do go up with a wing suit, I'm going to remember your post an pack like a pro. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
