RW Using Fatalities as Advertising!

[jumpwally 0]

You are all wet on this one,,,RWS is offering a product at a discounted rate/offer !! How is this wrong?

A fire protection add out there claims " Most home fires happen at nite while you and your family sleep. Smoke alarms can make a difference. Protect your family. Buy 4 or more alarms this month and get two free. Tell me how is this any different? Thought so....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[bmcd308 0]

My bad also, then. SDC gets "credit" for the slider down low cutaway stunt in the rumors here (Memphis), too.

>>before you start tossing out insults at a DZ and the jumpers there (esp my friends), get your facts in line<<

I think you are probably reacting a little harshly here. If we are going to be skydivers, I think we should be able to take the occasional "crazy freak" comment. To the vast majority of people in the world, we are.

>>This is what the RW offer means to me - there have been senseless, avoidable deaths over the course of this season. This is not a one time event as we have people jumping that get in over their head and do not follow emergency procedures. This device MAY help you live if you end up in that spot. A lot of people choose not to get the skyhook due to cost - therefore it's free if you order a rig from RW. I see nothing wrong with this. <<

I totally agree with the meat of your post.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I think you are probably reacting a little harshly here. If we are going to be skydivers, I think we should be able to take the occasional "crazy freak" comment. To the vast majority of people in the world, we are.

Not harsh - just straight to the point. I don't hold back words anymore and don't care if I step on a few toes in the process (I found out being the nice guy never got me anywhere in life).

Plenty of my friends are complete nutbags and don't care if you point it out - as long as it is true. This website is great for spreading negative lies/rumors that most people believe without talking to the people involved. I just wanted to get some facts out there instead of "I heard it from a friend who, who heard it from a friend who....." Wouldn't it suck if someone lost their job from this rumor?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[bmcd308 0]

Roger that.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[flyhi 24]

Bill Booth has rigging ability. You have rigging needs.

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

Hmmm, I think someone tried that already and it didn't work. Let me check the headlines from the late 80's and get back with you.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[tustinr 1]

Personally I think there is major over reaction here. In fact I am astounded at some of the posts. Silvre has a valid point although I don't necessary agree with him and I do beleive he toned it down in later posts.

"It doesn't pay to be nice" - well it doesn't pay to be nasty either. Somewhere in the middle would be great. We all have to live with each other. Like it or not.

Hell I wouldnt mind a Skyhook in my Icon and as soon at it does become available I will look at installing one. The 3 deaths Bill alluded to were tragic and, yes, in all probability could have been avoided with either a Skyhook or RSL.

Now please folks think before you post !
Rich

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Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught.

[betzilla 56]

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edit to publicly apologise: Aparently I have completely misread Silvre's first post. After rereading it is seems there was some sort of test jump to prove the Skyhook's operation at low altitudes. Is that correct now?

There were no "low cutaway tests" at Skydive Chicago. That was somewhere else. Our "crazy freaks" aren't that stupid.

That said, those of us who are tired of losing friends and colleagues to preventable accidents are mighty happy about innovations that may save more lives. If you don't think your life's not worth the 185 bucks it costs to add a skyhook to your Vector3, borrow it from your mom. Hopefully it's worth it to her.

As for Bill Booth wanting to get paid for his hard work. The man's gotta feed his family. If it was you, you'd do the same. Ain't nobody getting rich making or selling skydiving equipment.

[immanence 0]

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As for Bill Booth wanting to get paid for his hard work. The man's gotta feed his family. If it was you, you'd do the same

With all due respect, Betzilla (and I know this wasn't your main point), it isn't a matter of "If it was you, you'd do the same." I don't think this is what Mr Booth is doing period. People here are defending the right to make profit when it seems clear to me — albeit I don't know the man — that profit is the furthest thing from Mr Booth's mind when it comes to the Skyhook. In defending Mr Booth's right to bank a buck people are almost lending credence to this ludicrous thread started by Silvere. As such, it is almost a backhanded slight to Bill, who we all know has contributed immeasurably to our sport.

The truth of it is — and I will stand to be corrected if I am wrong — the Skyhook has very specific design tolerances that must be respected for it to work at all. It is unsurprising that Mr Booth designed his innovation for use with RWS rigs. After all, these are rigs he made from the ground up, and clearly knows best. Further, Mr Booth has said on these very forums that he hopes to license the Skyhook to other manufacturers sometime in the next year. So Silvere, your ill-informed attack, or whatever it was, doesn't even align with the facts. Mr Booth is not hoarding his invention. Nonetheless, one point stands: the Skyhook isn't like a Cypres that can be just added to any old rig. And prudently — and with great wisdom, in my view — Mr Booth wants to make sure that this remarkable leap forward for our sport doesn't go down the tubes or become discredited by sloppy installations that lead to deaths where original, within design parameter installations, would not.

In my view, this is too important an invention to our sport to let fail. I think My Booth is of the same opinion. It's not an issue of money and profit. Any delay in the appearance of this innovation on other rigs is also inevitable in that manufacturers are going to have to re-TSO their rigs. So don't hold your breath for a Skyhook on your Mirage, though for your sake — unless you can swap it for a V3 — I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

Finally, Silvere, the idea that Mr Booth is using death as advertising is just so leftfield as to be saddening, not angering. The man offers a genuine gift to the skydiving community out of his own pocket and you sneer at it. I believe this should be pause for reflection on your part. Perhaps you should know more about your sport before you mouth off about it, and especially before you malign in public one of its genuine heroes.

Blue skies,
ian

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[rehmwa 2]

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Ain't nobody getting rich making or selling skydiving equipment.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting rich by running a business. I hope our major manufacturers are rolling in $$$$. The products are good and we are willing to buy them. If the $$$ are good, it'll attract even more innovation and competition and the quality will go up and the prices down.

What is wrong with having money? Why do some people think it's a sin to make a buck?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billbooth 10]

As I've mentioned before, it is possible that the Skyhook, even sold as a full priced option, will actually cost me money. The reason is that the Skyhook, especially the Skyhook II, greatly reduces your chance of losing your freebag and pilot chute, which cost more than the Skyhook option did in the first place. So the first time you don't lose you freebag, your Skyhook is free. The second time, it's money in the bank. I'm afraid malfunction prone jumpers could end up costing me a "fortune" because, right now, we make 1,000's of replacement freebags and pilot chutes every year.

[pilotdave 0]

Skyhook II? Is what you were showing at the PIA symposium, to ensure the skyhook holds the freebag?

I bet the Skyhook III will tear the freebag to shreds after a cutaway... for safety reasons!

Dave

[mnealtx 0]

If you don't mind, could you explain the difference between Skyhook I and II?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billbooth 10]

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Skyhook II? Is what you were showing at the PIA symposium, to ensure the skyhook holds the freebag?

I bet the Skyhook III will tear the freebag to shreds after a cutaway... for safety reasons!

Dave

That is an excellent idea! I'll start working on it right now.

Actually, the Skyhook II works the same way as the Skyhook one, with a few improvements. I have added a second Lexan cover piece UNDER the Skyhook to better protect it. It is also "sealed" differently. There are two matching holes in the Lexan pieces, in the center of the hook section. The rigger seal thread passes through both holes, around the hook, and is tied to itself. This accomplishes two things. 1. It prevents damage to the freebag bridle that could be caused by repeated piercings with a dull needle (no needle is necessary with the Skyhook II). 2. The seal thread is not loaded, and therefore NOT broken) when the Skyhook II deploys the reserve. This means that in over 90% of Skyhook II deployments, the freebag and pilot chute remain attached to the main all the way to the ground. With the Skyhook I, the number was closer to 50%. This means, unfortunately for me, fewer lost freebags.

Skyhook II's are also anodized blue to make any damage more apparent, and allow laser etching of the "To Pilot Chute" warning. They are also individually serial numbered on the back with a gold holographic sticker for improved batch identification.

[pilotdave 0]

Wow, fancy. When you gonna add a Skyhook coloring program to your website so we can get em to match our rigs?? I want a chromed skyhook with hand painted flames and my name laser etched. And blue seal thread. For free!

Have you considered tie dye? It's very popular these days...

Dave

[Opie 0]

So are all Skyhook rigs being produced with this Skyhook II now?

[klafollette 0]

I thought Bill was already color matching them to the rig. My new Vector, that I got in August, had a navy/royal blue color scheme so the new blue anodized Skyhook II matched nicely. The red sealing thread my rigger used does clash a little bit. Will have to get him color coordinate better on my next repack

[HydroGuy 0]

You actually have the audacity to suggest that Mr. Booth and RW should give away both its products AND intellectual property rights...friggin amazing...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[billbooth 10]

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So are all Skyhook rigs being produced with this Skyhook II now?

Yes. The Skyhook II has been in production for a while now.

By the way, I want to thank all of you who have defended my right to make a living. I know I'll never get rich in this business, but it has given me a pretty good life so far. Making money is nice, but it is nowhere near as satisfying as inventing something useful, and then having one jumper e-mailing me to say thanks.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Hey, if nothing else you could make a living playing the piano, Bill! I am still amazed at your little impromptu performance at PIA. Brilliant.

Chuck Blue
D-12501
Raeford Parachute Center

[papax17 0]

Wow, Bill Booth is a real jerk for making amazing innovations that probably have taken years of dedication to get done, and then on top of that charge a little money for them.

Now on a serious note, if RW said "its stupid not to get a skyhook look how many people died.." ( no disrespect at all to the people who have lost their lives) then I'm sure the majority of the skydiving community would side with the author of the post who started this thread.

I dont see how RW is hoarding the technology at all. Look at the 3 ring system.

Anyway. I have nothing but respect for Mr. Booth and for his genuine dedication and concern for the safety of skydivers. Because of that I know I am going to save every penny I can and buy a RW rig with a skyhook after AFF. I believe in Mr. Booth and all of RW.

just my 2 cents

[P-dro 0]

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So everyone who invents new technology should just give it away to the world? Is there something wrong with businesses making money?

Appreciate the Skyhook for the incredible innovation that it is.

just to set the record straight, this concept had been researched by Eric Fradet and Advance in the early 90's...
But Bill was indeed the first to put it on the market.

[luis 0]

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having one jumper e-mailing me to say thanks.

..well, speaking of e-mailing, Bill
I am trying to reach someone from RWS (including you, after I got really desperate) for almost two weeks already with no reply whatsoever

Nothing too serious really.. just a customer who's ready to order a Micron as soon (and if) someone would answer a couple of simple questions about the product

[silvere 0]

Everyone is misunderstanding what I am trying to get across so I will clarify. There is absolutely nothing wrong with coming up with good technology, better then the competitions and then making a profit from it. I don’t think that Bill Booth should give anything away and there is no problem with him making profit and using this to sell more rigs, but just be forthright about it. I mean, I would much rather hear, RWS is giving away a free skyhook on every system on every system until October, and that’s it. Not to make it seem that the only reason it is being done is to make the sport safer. I’m sure both intentions are there, to make the sport safer and to make a profit but it seems that he is using the fatalities mixed right along in with a sales technique and I don’t think the two should mingle.

[skybytch 259]

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I’m sure both intentions are there, to make the sport safer and to make a profit but it seems that he is using the fatalities mixed right along in with a sales technique and I don’t think the two should mingle.

Once again, Airtec has been doing this for years.

[billbooth 10]

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So everyone who invents new technology should just give it away to the world? Is there something wrong with businesses making money?

Appreciate the Skyhook for the incredible innovation that it is.

just to set the record straight, this concept had been researched by Eric Fradet and Advance in the early 90's...
But Bill was indeed the first to put it on the market.

The basic idea is "old as the hills". My first test jumps on a Skyhook-like system were in the mid 80's. It just took me 18 years, and three false starts, to put together a system I thought was safe enough to market. I work on lots of systems that I never market because I can't solve all the problems involved with the design. I experimented with three other single point release systems before I finally came up with the 3-ring. I put a lot of work into a double reserve pilot chute system, later marketed as the "Catapult" by someone else, before I realized it was a bad idea, and dropped the project. For a long time, I thought the Skyhook was never going to see the light of day. But, one by one, the problems were solved, and now we have a workable system.