What do you say when people ask about death in this sport?

[ladyskydiver 0]

My response is always...

You can die at any time doing any thing - driving, sleeping, walking, showering, having sex...

And then I'll explain the gear and answer any questions they have about safety and the precautions that I take or that would be taken with a student.

I don't hide the fact that you can die skydiving, but I, also, don't sensationalize it. And I leave them with the question...when it's time for you to die, do you want to die with the thoughts of "wish I would have..." or " I did."

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[mr2mk1g 10]

You're in the UK. Tell them that the vast proportion of skydiving deaths are very experianced skydivers either deliberately increasing the risks they take for fun. (true)

Tell them that we have only ever had one student fatality during an AFF program in this country ever. (true)

Tell them that more people are killed each year by stepping out in front of a bus than are killed skydiving (true) (I then often introduce them to my friend "Crazy Mike" who's a bus driver).

Then actually address their question. People die. They're generally experianced. Pure equipment failure is very rare. Double mals are almost unheard of. It's generally a fuckup by the jumper - that's why training is important - that's why we give you a whole 8 hours training before we let you anywhere near a plane - that's why the first jump course costs as much as it does - because we give you all this training to keep you safe - that's why subsequent jumps cost as much as they do - to give you more training to keep you safe.

ie address their question in a serious and honest manner, then divert their attnetion from death to the tranining given to keep them safe, and use that as in positive maner to explain why the FJC is so expensive (which is generally the whuffos other main concern when talking to you).

btw, when faced with costs questions talk about exp. jump prices first - ie "once you're qualified it cost as little as £5 a jump". Have them realise that its not as expensive as everyone thinks. Keep things funny. Tell women they can afford shoes as well as skydiving. Tell men they can afford beer as well as skydiving, in fact tell them it's a requirement. Then move backwards through student training (again focusing on how they're buying training and instructor time) then finish up on their FJC cost explaining that it's all the saftey training that makes it that expensive. After all - they wouldn't want to go without that saftey tranining would they, even if it is a little expensive.

[Scoop 0]

im by no means experienced but i know of two deaths at my club, both were as result of low turns etc.

As a newbie the idea of low turns scares the shit out of me, especially with that kind of initiation to the sport.

Im aware that we do whatever we can to make it safe, but unfortunately - shit happens! But then you can ride a bike and 'get it wrong', or a car, plane .....

Im doing it because I love it and nothing makes me feel more alive for that time (ironic i know considering the consequences).

I tend to tell people a little bit more about the equipment if they ask, they watch my DVD and go - ahhhhh, not what I expected whatever they were expecting I have no idea!

HOWEVER.... I have taken out life inurance! and I dont think you can use the driving argument to justify staticstics. How many people drive compared to skydive!?

[JohnGraham 0]

That's a good idea about working backwards from experienced to student status and linking the risk thing in with the cost thing...

It's annoying we won't be able to explain everything in detail like this to everyone who asks us stuff at things like the freshers' fair, though for the people who are genuinely interested it'll be useful!

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“Hey, whadda ya do if yer big chute don’t open & then yer safety chute don’t open either?”

"Aim for your riggers' car"

[mr2mk1g 10]

Nah, the best one there is to say: "You take your shoe off and shove it up your arse... [pause and admire puzzled looks on faces]... It'll give you something to do and at least you can laugh at the thought of the accident investigators sleepless nights as he trys to figure out why your shoe got stuck up your arse."

[Scoop 0]

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Nah, the best one there is to say: "You take your shoe off and shove it up your arse... [pause and admire puzzled looks on faces]... It'll give you something to do and at least you can laugh at the thought of the accident investigators sleepless nights as he trys to figure out why your shoe got stuck up your arse."

[StefB 0]

I like the BPA (British Parachute Association) answer on "How safe is sport parachuting /skydiving?". It's on http://www.bpa.org.uk/howsafe.htm.

[Scoop 0]

Hehe yup, its kinda no nonsense.. but good for that reason...

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a) You want NO risk at all.

Skydiving is NOT for you. Do NOT enrol on any type of parachute course.

[peregrinerose 0]

Stats bore people, so I don't use those at all (plus I'd be pulling numbers out of my ass since I don't know them anyway ).

I tell them shit happens, but I take every precaution (reserve, AAD, extremely conservative when it comes to canopy and chosing whether or not to even make a jump based on weather, etc).

I tell them jumping is definitely not for everyone, either they get it or they don't and there's nothing wrong with it either way.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[damion75 0]

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a) You want NO risk at all.

Skydiving is NOT for you. Do NOT enrol on any type of parachute course.

You want no risk at all... give up being alive! Life is risk... some calculated, some not.

When people ask me, I point out that more people die while not skydiving than die skydiving... so it must me safer to jump than not then walk away while they try to figure that one out!

I like to try and confuse people (not people who are interested in starting, just casual whuffos at parties and stuff!)

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[AllisonH 0]

That depends on who's asking... I don't deny the risks, but I do mention the equipment available to minimize the risks. If it's my mother, I also mention the cost of such equipment, which sometimes prompts her to send me a check :-)

[JohnMitchell 14]

Thanks for that BPA website. Eloquently put, as always, by our British friends.

For people that I know are interested in a particular incident, especially pilot friends, I will explain what happened, and what should have been done instead, if I know enough about the incident.

For students, I tell them that there has never been a safer time to be a student in our sport (that's true, you know), and that after they get off student status is when it gets really risky. (especially when they "know" they're ready to downsize.)

[goose491 0]

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Nah, the best one there is to say: "You take your shoe off and shove it up your arse... [pause and admire puzzled looks on faces]... It'll give you something to do and at least you can laugh at the thought of the accident investigators sleepless nights as he trys to figure out why your shoe got stuck up your arse."

How about taking your helmet off and putting it on your feet?

It will make it easier for them to 'collect' you after the fact as all the'll have to do is pick up the helmet like a bucket!

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[riggerrob 562]

I tell them that I have been jumping for 28 years, over 4,000 jumps, etc .... and have never witnessed a fatality.

[andybr6 0]

I have been in a similar situation to yours at the uni' club that I was involved with. I think that it is key to stress the fact that skydiving is more to do with personal choice than chance or luck. Non-jumpers seemed to get bogged down in statistics and don't seem to get the fact that they will be in control under canopy and for the most part in freefall. In short they can choose to take risks or make bad decisions and that WILL result in serious injury. I always avoided the whole "you can do everything right and still die bit until they had done a couple of jumps and got hooked"

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"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[billvon 2,471]

I just tell them. You can die in this sport, especially if you make mistakes. It is unlike most other sports in that you must actively save yourself on every jump; the biggest threat to your own safety is yourself. If they are uncomfortable with that, they shouldn't jump.

I don't try to prove to people that the sport is safe any more, because it isn't, and I have no interest in seeing lots more people join the sport. If they are really worried about it, bowling is a much better choice.

[tbrown 26]

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Skydiving isn't safe and I don't think that it's right to tell non-jumpers that it is, so I tell them what I see as the truth. You can do everything right and still die.

I have a problem with saying skydiving isn't safe. It IS inherently dangerous, but quite honestly if it were THAT dangerous I wouldn't do it. because I'm not stupid or crazy. And while it's true that you can do everything right and still die, that's extremely rare. It's usually somebody making some kind of human error, bad judgement, sloppy maintenance of their gear, overconfidence, not paying attention, etc.

It's NOT as safe as we used to tell people in days gone by, but it sure is a lot safer in many ways (and more dangerous in others). I generally tell people it's "safe enough" and that they shouldn't have to worry about giving it a try. But I also tell them that if they take up the sport, they will soon lose a friend, will eventually see it happen, and that one day it could just happen to them. But that a single tandem and a life in the sport are two different things.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[jedeisurf 0]

I had a instructor who said to me once you leave the plane you have committed suicide it's up to you to save your ass, of course this was 10 years ago.
David

[bob.dino 0]

I've heard it as "every time you step out of the plane, you've gotta save your own life." Which I prefer, as the use of the word suicide makes it seem like I want to die when I get out of the plane.

[immanence 0]

When I ran my university's club back in the day I used to tell people that the more you know (about the sport) the more you understand the risks and prepare to deal with the worst, if it occurs. I'd probably say the same now ... education is key. But I'd also be thinking, in my head, "if you're so afraid of death, take up television", or "if you're gonna die this way, death will find a way to make it happen." I agree with what some of the more battle-worn jumpers tend to say: you can do everything right and still die. Could you have avoided it anyway? Can any of us avoid anything? Maybe free will and human action are just illusions that deliver us, regardless, to exactly where fate lies in wait for us. I'd tell them that being relatively closer to death in the sky makes me more alive on the ground. I'd tell them that skydiving helped me deal with big questions like mortality. I'd be thinking, "it doesn't matter how you die so long as you live."

None of that means, however, that my next rig won't be a V3 with a Skyhook

Blue skies,
ian

"where danger is appears also that which saves ..." Friedrich Holderlin, 'Patmos'

[jedeisurf 0]

Hi, Dave I like your way of thinking much better
David

[crazydiver 0]

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35 average skydiving deaths out of 40,000 skydivers. approx 1 in 1000.

15.5 deaths per 100000 people in traffic casualties (1999).

I really dislike the 'safer than driving' argument.

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You only measured how many deaths out of how many skydivers...not how many jumps. Lets say on average that each of those jumpers did an average of 200 jumps per year, that makes 8 million jumps per year. So... 35 deaths makes one out of 228,571.43 skydives a deadly skydive. So...if your stats are correct...the chances of dying are one in almost 230 thousand. Pretty favorable odds if I do say so myself.

Cheers,
Travis

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[Samurai136 0]

USPA figures for 2004: 21 fatalities; 2,221,115 skydives
NHTSA figures for 2004: 42,636 fatalites; death rate of 1.46 per hundred million miles driven.

NHTSA figures show that motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death for all age groups under 35.



Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Witelli 0]

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You only measured how many deaths out of how many skydivers...not how many jumps. Lets say on average that each of those jumpers did an average of 200 jumps per year, that makes 8 million jumps per year. So... 35 deaths makes one out of 228,571.43 skydives a deadly skydive. So...if your stats are correct...the chances of dying are one in almost 230 thousand. Pretty favorable odds if I do say so myself.

There's so many ways to statistically analyze this. If you're going to use # of skydives, you should probably use # of car rides. Or, time spent driving vs. time spent skydiving (in this case skydiving would be way more dangerous, since the 200 jumps would only consist of roughly 3hrs20min of skydiving, people drive way more than that in a year, that's a little more than 1 days driving for me). I think the proper statistic would be to the question "how safe can skydiving be?" is, the total number of skydives per year vs. the total number of deaths that couldn't be avoided with reasonable training and responsibility. Only counting the deaths that were caused by mals that weren't able to be corrected in your normal EP's while you're not doing anything in your skydive that could put you at risk. Because that's how safe skydiving could be, and that would be answering the question honestly. When you want to make it more exciting it becomes more dangerous. But you don't have to.

[billvon 2,471]

>NHTSA figures show that motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause
>of death for all age groups under 35.

Well, they are the leading cause of death for drivers under 35. Skydiving is the leading cause of death for skydivers under 35. You can decide to not be in either group if you so choose.