Stomusky 0 #1 November 23, 2005 Hello, I know I should be asking my AFF instructor or rigger, but I'd like to ask this if there are any tips out there for my own knowledge. I have roughly 40 jumps and using 190 main (rental). And currently, I'm looking for one of my own. I'm 5'6" and 140lbs, so I'm thinking that I want 150 main to start. If I want to go from 190 to 150, I guess I need to experience some jumps on 170 too. So the question I have is, how many jumps would I need before starting to use 150? Thanks for paying attention. Appreciate for any comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,425 #2 November 23, 2005 It's not the number of jumps, it's the sorts of skills you need. You have to be able to land the canopy crosswind, in no wind, be able to turn it left and right both during the flare and at 100 feet safely, be able to land on rear risers etc. Once you can do all that then you're probably ready to downsize. Doing it on your own I'd expect that to take 50-100 jumps as a minimum. For the whole list see here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #3 November 23, 2005 When I had 40 jumps I went from a 230, to a 150, by way of 20 jumps on a 170, the speed difference in turns and landings is significant. Know your stuff before doing it, I didn't know it as well as I should have and spent a long time rolling around in the landing area, fortunately nothing got damaged or bruised other than my ego You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnarok 0 #4 November 23, 2005 Downsizing gradually is the best idea. I hear that alot. The canopy you are jumping you should be able to do anything and land it safely. If you question it, maybe you should not do it. Better to be on the ground and wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground....._________________________________________ Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006 Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008 Blue Skies Forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #5 November 23, 2005 What size were you trained on? I was on 288-> 230 -> 190 -> 170 by jump 57. I was loaded at 0.65 on the 288 though. Have been jumping the 170 for about 80 jumps now and can do most of billyvon's stuff now and feel like going to 150/135 but I think I'm going to stay on the 170 and spend my money towards more important stuff for now... Best thing to do is talk to your instructors. Either way I agree you must jump intermediate sizes... Or even stay on the 190. I do hear many 140 pound people purchasing a 170 as their first canopy though but it depends on flying skills... A 150lbs exit weight on a 150 is still more dangerous than a 170lbs exit weight on a 170 (same wingloading). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #6 November 23, 2005 Beating a dead horse... beating a dead horse... okay here is the deal put a few more jumps on the 190 then see if the rental place has a 170... most likely they will be able to tell you when you are ready for it... jump that for a while.... then think about your own gear.... otherwise, you will wind up like me...paying out the ass for an upsizing rig due to inexperience injuring yourself Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #7 November 23, 2005 I'm am also 5'6 150lbs. I have a sabre2 150, but I only started jumping a 150 after something like 70 jumps. I was on a 190 for awhile, then went to a 170 for a ton of jumps. I was able to land where I wanted to with the 170, did some crosswind landings, and a few slight downwinds, but there was barely any wind. I was renting so I downsized to a 150 on a good day, nice steady 5-10 mile per hour wind. There IS a big difference in 190 to 150. I know I surely would have misjudged many a landing had I done that. I think I have like 50 or so jumps on a 150 and to tell you the truth I'm still working on the speed of my landing even though I manage to stand them up. I don't have many jumps, just thought i'd give my opinion since we are the same size.Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #8 November 23, 2005 QuoteI was on a 190 for awhile, then went to a 170 for a ton of jumps. I'll comment, since it seems no one else has. A ton of jumps, but less than 70? A 1.2 wingloading at 70 jumps, plus your attitude? You may not have been hurt yet, but you are still new. Good luck, it sounds like you will need it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #9 November 23, 2005 Buy a 170 now. Fly that unitl you are good at it. Worry about the 150 then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #10 November 23, 2005 Quote Buy a 170 now. Fly that unitl you are good at it. Worry about the 150 then. So much wisdom, so few words! Its like watching the Dalai Lama teach Skydiving! *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #11 November 23, 2005 QuoteIts like watching the Dalai Lama teach Skydiving! Or Confucius. "Man with lower wingloading exist on higher plain." Or maybe, "He who buy small canopy, ensures small reward". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #12 November 23, 2005 QuoteAppreciate for any comments. Are you a 30% better canopy pilot? If not, are your bones 30% stronger?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #13 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI was on a 190 for awhile, then went to a 170 for a ton of jumps. I'll comment, since it seems no one else has. A ton of jumps, but less than 70? A 1.2 wingloading at 70 jumps, plus your attitude? You may not have been hurt yet, but you are still new. Good luck, it sounds like you will need it. I kind of figured someone out there would say something. Some people just progress faster at things than others and I don't mean that in an attitude way. I sprained my ankle early on, think that was on the 170. I'm loaded at 1.2 now, not under a 170 at 170 I was loaded at 1.06. There are many others out there with just as many jumps as me with the same loading. Oh and thanks for the vote of confidence.Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #14 November 23, 2005 Quote Some people just progress faster at things than others If you could point these people out to me BEFORE they start jumping, you just might have something. Quotethanks for the vote of confidence Again, unless you are a member of the psychic friends network, another persons confidence in you is of little bearing on reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #15 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuote Some people just progress faster at things than others QuoteIf you could point these people out to me BEFORE they start jumping, you just might have something. What the heck does that mean? Quotethanks for the vote of confidence QuoteQuoteAgain, unless you are a member of the psychic friends network, another persons confidence in you is of little bearing on reality. Thanks for backing my point. Since you don't know me, don't know my experience other than numbers, the reality is you don't know shit about me. Good day sky gods good day!!!Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 187 #16 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was on a 190 for awhile, then went to a 170 for a ton of jumps. I'll comment, since it seems no one else has. A ton of jumps, but less than 70? A 1.2 wingloading at 70 jumps, plus your attitude? You may not have been hurt yet, but you are still new. Good luck, it sounds like you will need it. I kind of figured someone out there would say something. Some people just progress faster at things than others and I don't mean that in an attitude way. I sprained my ankle early on, think that was on the 170. I'm loaded at 1.2 now, not under a 170 at 170 I was loaded at 1.06. There are many others out there with just as many jumps as me with the same loading. Oh and thanks for the vote of confidence. Right. I can think of someone who placed at the Nationals (I think it was Silver for 4-way) with less than 160 jumps. I helped put him on a backboard shortly thereafter. I bet dollars to donuts that he was every bit as good as are you. Whether you like it or not, it is not the 99% of the landings that go as planned, it is the 1% that could use a little work. Your choice of equipment can make a big difference in how bad is the outcome of a seemingly minor misjudgment. Jumping the smallest canopy you can barely control and pulling it off doesn't win you any points. If you talk to people who have been around a while, and still jump, you will hear things on the order of "I did that when I had X number of jumps, and somehow managed to pull it off. I am lucky to have survived being so stupid, and some of my friends were not so lucky." If you survive and are still jumping in 10 years, feel free to revisit the decision making process you are now using. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,425 #17 November 23, 2005 > Some people just progress faster at things than others and I >don't mean that in an attitude way. When I was going to middle and high school I was always near the top of my class. Things came easy for me. I didn't have to work very hard. I figured I was just a natural. Then I went to a really tough college and did dismally for the first year or so. I expected to be able to just breeze through it like I did high school. It took me a while to realize that all those top-of-the-class types now made up the entire school, and I had to work hard to do well. Same thing happens in skydiving. Someone who has been a natural at many sports - athletic, fearless, strong - starts skydiving. They figure they will do great; sports have always come really easily to them before. They have learned they just progress faster at such things than other people. The problem is, they have now entered a sport where most people are like that. Every skydiver has overcome their fear of heights and has managed to learn to fly their bodies. They tend to be alpha types who know what they want and go get it. The really fat couch potatos, the people who are afraid of everything, the people who can never commit to doing something have all been weeded out already. The people you see in skydiving have, in way, been pre-filtered. And all those skydivers think they progress faster than other people. Problem is, those people still break themselves on a regular basis, even when they are sure their skills are superior. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stomusky 0 #18 November 23, 2005 This is the most philosophical comment that I have ever heard about skydiving, but I can kinda relate myself to it....being one of them that breeze through most of sports in initial stage. I thought I was not afraid of heights, but I got a bit scared after 10 jumps. But overcome the fear, and I know now that I love & respect the sport very much. That's why I wanted to take time and purchase the right gear. Thank you for your tips. They're great help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #19 November 24, 2005 You may want to consider buying a rig with a PD160r and a 170 main. This will accomodate a 150 main very nicely when you are ready. A used 170 in good shape sells quite quickly. I bet you can buy a used 170, put 100 jumps on it, and sell it for what you bought it for. This way you can fly what is appropriate now, and keep your body in one piece to fly that 150 by the end of the season.... provided you stay current. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OSOK 0 #20 November 24, 2005 At my DZ, I hear alot that it's not so much about landing a smaller canopy when downsizing, but it's mostly about being able to handle a mal on it. Of course, the landing of it is obvious that it'd require more skill, but just because you're able to land a 150 it doesnt mean you can handle nasty line twists on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TaylorC 0 #21 November 24, 2005 listen to dave he is very wise.(not being sarcastic or anything here) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beverly 1 #22 November 24, 2005 We have a rule that you need a 100 jumps before you can jump something smaller than a 170 or a wingloading of 1.0 or higher. We have seen students really hurt themselves as they get alot of courage early on and make big mistakes. I went onto a 150 at 45 jumps (Before the new rules) and I did not have the best landings, although I was a very conservative canopy pilot. I realised that I was sold a dud 150. It was old and had no flare. If you can get a really nice 150, (Newish Sabre, pilot etc) and you are really prepared to take it slow for the next few hundred jumps, then cool. As a small person, a larger canopy might be a hinderence to landings. I landed backwards for most of my student life, due to not being able to penetrate the wind on the bigger canopies. If you can get to jump a 170 a few times, rent or borrow one you will get a better idea of the flying characteristics. Just please don't do radical turns close to the ground. Do a high set up for landing and watch for other traffic in the sky. Be careful and gentle and you can try to ensure no broken bones. It does not look cool when you are on in the back of an ambulance! Don't just look for the destination, enjoy the RIDE! I think true friendship is under-rated Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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winsor 187 #16 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was on a 190 for awhile, then went to a 170 for a ton of jumps. I'll comment, since it seems no one else has. A ton of jumps, but less than 70? A 1.2 wingloading at 70 jumps, plus your attitude? You may not have been hurt yet, but you are still new. Good luck, it sounds like you will need it. I kind of figured someone out there would say something. Some people just progress faster at things than others and I don't mean that in an attitude way. I sprained my ankle early on, think that was on the 170. I'm loaded at 1.2 now, not under a 170 at 170 I was loaded at 1.06. There are many others out there with just as many jumps as me with the same loading. Oh and thanks for the vote of confidence. Right. I can think of someone who placed at the Nationals (I think it was Silver for 4-way) with less than 160 jumps. I helped put him on a backboard shortly thereafter. I bet dollars to donuts that he was every bit as good as are you. Whether you like it or not, it is not the 99% of the landings that go as planned, it is the 1% that could use a little work. Your choice of equipment can make a big difference in how bad is the outcome of a seemingly minor misjudgment. Jumping the smallest canopy you can barely control and pulling it off doesn't win you any points. If you talk to people who have been around a while, and still jump, you will hear things on the order of "I did that when I had X number of jumps, and somehow managed to pull it off. I am lucky to have survived being so stupid, and some of my friends were not so lucky." If you survive and are still jumping in 10 years, feel free to revisit the decision making process you are now using. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,425 #17 November 23, 2005 > Some people just progress faster at things than others and I >don't mean that in an attitude way. When I was going to middle and high school I was always near the top of my class. Things came easy for me. I didn't have to work very hard. I figured I was just a natural. Then I went to a really tough college and did dismally for the first year or so. I expected to be able to just breeze through it like I did high school. It took me a while to realize that all those top-of-the-class types now made up the entire school, and I had to work hard to do well. Same thing happens in skydiving. Someone who has been a natural at many sports - athletic, fearless, strong - starts skydiving. They figure they will do great; sports have always come really easily to them before. They have learned they just progress faster at such things than other people. The problem is, they have now entered a sport where most people are like that. Every skydiver has overcome their fear of heights and has managed to learn to fly their bodies. They tend to be alpha types who know what they want and go get it. The really fat couch potatos, the people who are afraid of everything, the people who can never commit to doing something have all been weeded out already. The people you see in skydiving have, in way, been pre-filtered. And all those skydivers think they progress faster than other people. Problem is, those people still break themselves on a regular basis, even when they are sure their skills are superior. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stomusky 0 #18 November 23, 2005 This is the most philosophical comment that I have ever heard about skydiving, but I can kinda relate myself to it....being one of them that breeze through most of sports in initial stage. I thought I was not afraid of heights, but I got a bit scared after 10 jumps. But overcome the fear, and I know now that I love & respect the sport very much. That's why I wanted to take time and purchase the right gear. Thank you for your tips. They're great help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #19 November 24, 2005 You may want to consider buying a rig with a PD160r and a 170 main. This will accomodate a 150 main very nicely when you are ready. A used 170 in good shape sells quite quickly. I bet you can buy a used 170, put 100 jumps on it, and sell it for what you bought it for. This way you can fly what is appropriate now, and keep your body in one piece to fly that 150 by the end of the season.... provided you stay current. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSOK 0 #20 November 24, 2005 At my DZ, I hear alot that it's not so much about landing a smaller canopy when downsizing, but it's mostly about being able to handle a mal on it. Of course, the landing of it is obvious that it'd require more skill, but just because you're able to land a 150 it doesnt mean you can handle nasty line twists on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaylorC 0 #21 November 24, 2005 listen to dave he is very wise.(not being sarcastic or anything here) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beverly 1 #22 November 24, 2005 We have a rule that you need a 100 jumps before you can jump something smaller than a 170 or a wingloading of 1.0 or higher. We have seen students really hurt themselves as they get alot of courage early on and make big mistakes. I went onto a 150 at 45 jumps (Before the new rules) and I did not have the best landings, although I was a very conservative canopy pilot. I realised that I was sold a dud 150. It was old and had no flare. If you can get a really nice 150, (Newish Sabre, pilot etc) and you are really prepared to take it slow for the next few hundred jumps, then cool. As a small person, a larger canopy might be a hinderence to landings. I landed backwards for most of my student life, due to not being able to penetrate the wind on the bigger canopies. If you can get to jump a 170 a few times, rent or borrow one you will get a better idea of the flying characteristics. Just please don't do radical turns close to the ground. Do a high set up for landing and watch for other traffic in the sky. Be careful and gentle and you can try to ensure no broken bones. It does not look cool when you are on in the back of an ambulance! Don't just look for the destination, enjoy the RIDE! I think true friendship is under-rated Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
